A Word To The Wise

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
1,271
3
Canada
www.magicanada.myfastforum.org
Do NOT mix flourishes to magic... magic place advertise and sell flourishing products and that can be misleading and send out mixed messages. Putting a 45 second flourish into your act not only destroys the rhythm of the effect but also makes you look like a jerk that is rubbing in their skills.

Magic is wonderful on its own, and so is flourishing, but I see a lot of young magicians combining the two and it just doesn't work... no magician can really make it work either.
 
Sep 1, 2007
1,706
1
31
Do NOT mix flourishes to magic... magic place advertise and sell flourishing products and that can be misleading and send out mixed messages. Putting a 45 second flourish into your act not only destroys the rhythm of the effect but also makes you look like a jerk that is rubbing in their skills.

Magic is wonderful on its own, and so is flourishing, but I see a lot of young magicians combining the two and it just doesn't work... no magician can really make it work either.

Well...

I'd say it's all a matter of what you're trying to do. If you're trying to convince your audience that what you're doing is magic, then you probably don't want to use flourishes or anything that might prompt them to think you're doing something behind the scenes.

I get really great reactions when I insert a flourish into my sleight of hand act. I just use the line "...and just a simple cut..." and it gets big laughs. It really all depends on context. It's never a definite thing.

Nothing is.
 
Nov 18, 2007
61
0
Toronto, Ontario
Magic is wonderful on its own, and so is flourishing, but I see a lot of young magicians combining the two and it just doesn't work... no magician can really make it work either.

Actually, Daniel Madison and D&D always use flourishing to compliment their magic. Personally, I think flourishing is good for magic, but only to a certain extent. (not 45 seconds of flourishing though :p)
 
Sep 1, 2007
182
0
Houston TX
there are great tricks you can do with flourishes (triumph is a good one)

one person to look at is Daryl's Something for Everyone Lecture 2 he talks about how flourishes are great but can confuse people during a trick (maybe they will forget their card or something) and Michael is right, it can make you look like a jerk just showing off (but not every time)

i have learned to perform flourishes at the right time and depending on your audience some (actually most) people thinks its really amazing to watch.

the real question i think is do you want to be remembered as a magician or a juggler?
 
A flourishing act being put into a magic act I would agree on not putting in, but flourishes along do well in magic acts. You may not want to advertise the flourish as much but you can still include it into your act.

Doing a false sybil to mix the cards is perfectly fine, I saw a magician in town do it and it made his triumph routine all the better.

Fans, ribbon spreads and charliers are also flourishes, cutting those out would be odd, you could just cut the cards and sloppily mix the cards around for a substitute, but then it looks ugly. Flourishing has evolved beyond those flourishes used by pretty much every magician, so putting the Jackson Five into your act may not run well, but all those simpler flourishes and false cuts don't need to go.

~PaCo
 

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
1,271
3
Canada
www.magicanada.myfastforum.org
Hey, I'm even guilty to some extent, I just feel that using a flourish longer than 3 seconds is overkill and overproving. Some people can combine flourishy cuts and things into their work but doing an endless exhibition of 16-packet cuts is just not going to work. Sybil, Kev Ho's Corkscrew Closer, and even the non-hackey version of Vertigo are all I use. Short, brief, and flashy without being over-flashy.
 
Dec 4, 2007
1,096
1
www.thrallmind.com
Putting a 45 second flourish into your act not only destroys the rhythm of the effect but also makes you look like a jerk that is rubbing in their skills.

It depends on how you look at it, Michael. That is all a matter of opinion. Do you find jugglers jerks who are rubbing their skills? People could look at magic with the same kind of view.

Magic is wonderful on its own, and so is flourishing, but I see a lot of young magicians combining the two and it just doesn't work...

You say you see a lot of young magicians combining the two. Dan and Dave make a pretty good living off of mixing the two. As does Daniel Madison. Do you fan or spring cards? Those are flourishes, ya know.

no magician can really make it work either.

That is a very ignorant statement. This is 100% opinion, and you are trying to state it as fact. While I don't believe when De'Vo said "Magic should be used to compliment flourishing," It is very possible to use flourishing to compliment magic. The title of the thread shouldn't be "A word to the wise." It just seems like someone is trying to jump on a pedestal and preach that their opinion should be the opinion of the community.

Just my .02

-ThrallMind
 
Aug 31, 2007
2,025
1
31
Long Island/New York
Actually, Daniel Madison and D&D always use flourishing to compliment their magic. Personally, I think flourishing is good for magic, but only to a certain extent. (not 45 seconds of flourishing though :p)

I think I heard Dan or Dave say they barely do flourishes when their doing magic. I'm not sure where they said, but I'll look for it.

Someone who really, really sucks at a Charlier Cut.

===

Haha, niice!
 

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
1,271
3
Canada
www.magicanada.myfastforum.org
I've never personally seen Dan or Dave mix the two, they are both done seperately.

I mean more XCM type stuff, not the basics like springs and fans. With a juggler, it's different, because you can't mix juggling with juggling. Flourishes are juggling and I feel they destroy an effects rhythm.
 
Dec 4, 2007
1,096
1
www.thrallmind.com
Hey, I'm even guilty to some extent, I just feel that using a flourish longer than 3 seconds is overkill and overproving. Some people can combine flourishy cuts and things into their work but doing an endless exhibition of 16-packet cuts is just not going to work. Sybil, Kev Ho's Corkscrew Closer, and even the non-hackey version of Vertigo are all I use. Short, brief, and flashy without being over-flashy.


I mean more XCM type stuff, not the basics like springs and fans. With a juggler, it's different, because you can't mix juggling with juggling. Flourishes are juggling and I feel they destroy an effects rhythm.

So from the above statements, quick flourishes are okay, and as long as they aren't XCM, it''s okay? Also, it's okay as long as it isn't in the middle of an effect, it's fine to do in moderation?

Just making sure I understand you correctly.

-ThrallMind
 

Michael Kras

{dg} poet laureate / theory11
Sep 12, 2007
1,271
3
Canada
www.magicanada.myfastforum.org
Of course... some magicians can effectively transition between effects using flourishes.

And yes, I personally believe that brief, flashy things are fine but I just personally think large things like Pandora, Jackson 5, and Madonna are very out of place.
 
Seriously stop saying flourihes are juggling. Go on youtube and type juggling see what happens. Also Dan and Dave, Daniel Madison and others use flourihes. You obviously haven't peformed flourishes for people. They don't think your a showoff they think that your a bada** motherf*****. Yes you don't want to exagerate the flourishes. Stop and perform Jackson 5, pandora, and a **** load of other flourishes but it actually helps your magic act.
 
Dec 4, 2007
1,096
1
www.thrallmind.com
Seriously stop saying flourihes are juggling. Go on youtube and type juggling see what happens. Also Dan and Dave, Daniel Madison and others use flourihes. You obviously haven't peformed flourishes for people. They don't think your a showoff they think that your a bada** motherf*****. Yes you don't want to exagerate the flourishes. Stop and perform Jackson 5, pandora, and a **** load of other flourishes but it actually helps your magic act.


Copperfield, language. Not needed.

-ThrallMind
 
Apr 28, 2008
598
0
I've never personally seen Dan or Dave mix the two, they are both done seperately.

I mean more XCM type stuff, not the basics like springs and fans. With a juggler, it's different, because you can't mix juggling with juggling. Flourishes are juggling and I feel they destroy an effects rhythm.

Stop trivialising it by calling it juggling.

Most people who say they mix magic and flourishing do not force flourishing into an effect. They usually mean they include it in their magic performances i.e between effects or after they have finished doing magic.

On some occasions flourishing within an effect will add to the performance, on one of the effects on Dangerous Daniel Madison uses a very flourishy cut to mix the cards, the audience obviously like it and think it's cool and their reaction is not diminished at all.
 
Nov 17, 2007
20
0
dan and dave did say that when they are performing magic they keep the flourishes to a minium. i think that a flashy appearance of a selected card is good put i dont personally like fancy four ace at once flourishes because people know that that needs a set up and will assume all ur other tricks require the same so they arent impressed!!!!!!!!
 
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