Criss Angel steals effect and markets it...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ryanbliss, May 30, 2010.

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  1. Instead of stating why you hate someone or something about the art, you shouldn't care what other people are doing.
    Worry about you and how you make your magic happen.
    Don't let things like this keep you from practicing because you were busy reading bull**** articles by an author that can't be identified located somewhere in Utah.
    Threads like these lead to no-wheresville.
    I try to stay out of the politics in magic, because simply it's not worth it.
    I don't have the time to read about who's scamming who and why this person hates that one. It's just an endless argument back and forth because both parties feel that they're right. So the amount of time you've read this thread and replied to, you've wasted time that you can never get back that could have been used to practice.
    Realize this now before your history repeats itself and those measly minutes turn into hours.
    Slippery slope? Maybe.
    The only thing to do is just let it be.
     
  2. edited cause im tired of the Criss Angel debate.

    PEACE OUT
     
  3. @ baller, dude good to see that you are back.....

    @l uke: its good to hear some direct insight on the thinking of what goes on behind the scenes, cuz Lord knows the name of Criss Angel i forsaken by many magicians, both well known and not so well known.....if i was hearing about Criss for the first time, i would think this guy is Satan....
     
  4. Ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous.

    Everyone knows Satan doesn't need camera tricks.

    Oh - snap!

    :)
     
  5. I don't think the trick he did on his show had any meaningful addition to the basic McDonald's aces trick (which actually goes back to Hofzinser).

    I found a video giving a demo of this effect. People can judge for themselves whether this deserves to be released as a DVD.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px5V3DiZLoA

    As for the camera tricks thing, you know you are in trouble when more than a couple of laymen think all your effects are acheived through camera trickery.
     
  6. Well I would agree with you DannyT but you contradicted yourself on this one because you yourself "wasted" time responding especially when you claim to not like to get involved into the politics. Whether it was a a minute or an hour that passed before you responded it's all the same.

    I like that that's hilarious

    For those who are "defending" Criss (but I'm not going to choose a side for myself I'll just state some common sense facts). First off there are many things out there that can be abused if used improperly from drugs to alcohol to magic utilities such as stooges, or editing. The abuse for magic is that there is no more spectators just stooges and that editing becomes camera tricks.

    My wife who doesn't do magic and doesn't know how i do any of my magic hates to watch magic on TV because she doesn't trust in it's believe ability and won't watch it at all. In her words too "Theres a bunch of girlies who like to watch Criss angel because they think he's hot..." My wife knows the film scene very well because her father has been in films when he was younger and her family has hung out with all your favorite actors and actresses from since film has started.

    If you want to use magic with nothing but stooges go ahead, but if you have nothing but stooges who's gonna be amazed? If you want to use camera tricks for your magic go ahead who's gonna be amazed. Also using magic as a way to get girls is very disrespect for both parties because your magic becomes a pickup line not an amazing effect they'll remember. Because what they'll remember is you coming up and doing something just to get with them.

    Anyways...carry on:)
     
  7. While that is true, and people DO say "All Criss Angel does is use camera tricks", we also have to remember a few things...

    Ask people what they think about stage magic. They will tell you that they think there def IS a trick somehow because they are on stage and use stage hands, huge props, lighting, dancing girls, etc. Then they will usually say that the reason why they like close up magic so much more is because it is right in their face, and there is no way to hide anything or cheat. (We alllll know that is not true...lol)

    Many magicians have used the TV to their advantage, using camera tricks and special edits to make their effect "look" better...even if the end result is not so great:
    Franz Harary
    David Copperfield
    David Blaine
    Criss Angel
    (just to name a few)

    Something else to think about: If Criss Angel was NOT doing his job properly, then he wouldn't have millions of viewers tuning in to his show to watch him. Look I myself am not a fan of his show, and have only watched just a handful of episodes because it just doesn't appeal to me. But it doesn't have to.

    Just my $4.34 worth...

    Mike
     
  8. i am not saying criss isnt a busy guy, and im not saying that criss is bad for magic. what i am saying, is that i think it is completely rediculous to publish an effect that everyone already knows about, and probably has at home. thats what im saying. im not dissing his show, or his consultants, because to be honest, i think he has the best in the biz, working form him. Luke Dancy included. several of his team, are many of my biggest influences.

    my only question was why is he selling THIS effect as apose to something of his thats origional. i think that would really get people interested in HIS magic.
     
  9. i also want to say that i in NO WAY, EVER, said anything about camera tricks, or anything of the sort, I have the deepest respect for the consultants of Mindfreak, and what they do. my only grudge was the release of this effect.
     
  10. you know what, i dont even care anymore, i was mad when i wrote the origional post. so whatever. if i offended any criss angel fans, then sorry. i know luke dancy wasnt too happy, so i appologize to him. but i will not appologize for my oppinion of the ethics of the dvd. i still believe that. if you dont like it, then to be honest, i really dont care. im not going to be sucked into the "magic politics" of this, debate. call me ignorant, dissagree, it doesnt really matter, at the end of the day, i get to do what i love. and i get to make people happy doing it.
     
  11. #31 Mat La Vore, Jun 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2010
    I think it depends on what kind of stage magic you are referring to. Are we talking Tossed out Deck or a helicopter production?

    I think it all depends on the effect and the magician. I know the last time Copperfield came down to my area, a bunch of laymen I know went, and none of them could stop talking about how he made that car appear on stage. I think people usually just think of gimmick boxes and trap doors and mirrors when they think of stage magic because that's the cliche', the same way people tend to think all magicians use wands and pull rabbits out of hats or the same way people tend to think all close-up magicians pull quarters out from behind the ears of children at their birthday parties.

    True, and some were more successful than others. As I stated earlier, the problem with how Criss Angel uses camera tricks and special edits compared to a few others you listed is that Criss overuses those methods and he's not getting them by anyone anymore. Laymen have caught on and his "magic" is being dismissed and boiled down to just two methods (camera tricks and stooges) no matter what he does. Not saying it's fair or not, but that's the reality of how many laymen look at Criss Angel's magic now.

    I disagree. I rarely watch TV, but when I do I always see incompetent people doing their jobs poorly (journalists, actors, screenwriters, politicians, hosts, etc.). I'm not saying Criss is or isn't a bad magician--simply that just because someone has a job that puts their face on television definitely doesn't mean they're good at what they do.

    I don't know the last time David Williamson appeared on network television, but I know it was before Jason Randall's last few appearances on Letterman. Know what I mean?
     
  12. I think not crediting the people who created the tricks right on the box is just as bad as him not telling his audience who created the tricks he does and how innovative the use of invisible thread was in the trick before he performs it. It's like he doesn't even care...
     
  13. #33 Mike.Hankins, Jun 1, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 1, 2010
    Oops...double post...see below.
     
  14. oops...triple post...wtf?!?! See below, below.
     
  15. I should have clarified, my bad. I was referring to illusions on stage that play for stage. Something like the Death Saw or even the Corvette production, where lighting, blocking and staging all have to be there in order for the effect to be accomplished. A lot of my friends are laymen to magic, but not laymen to stage, as most of them work in either the television industry or in the theater.

    There was a time when about 10 of us went to go see Copperfield in Baltimore, and after the show, all they kept talking about was how the lighting was used as well as the positions of the illusions on the stage. Not saying they figured it all out, but they all knew that none of those illusions could be performed surrounded and off stage.

    Actually...if you have never seen Franz Haray on the World's Greatest Magic, you need to YouTube it. In his Space Shuttle illusion, he uses the WORST actors I have EVER seen...ever! And when I say the worst...I mean THE worst of the worst! Like worse than mixing Lucky Charms milk with a Caesar salad.

    You also have to take into consideration the fact that while Mindfreak IS his show, there have probably been many instances where he disagreed with what the networked wanted aired, vs what he wanted aired. How he wanted something shot, vs how the network wanted something shot. That is a reality in the film industry. So I don't really think all the blame needs to be brought to Angel for that.

    When I said "doing something right", I was not referring to him being a good magician or a bad one. I was referring to the fact that in order for a show to continue to be aired on television, it has to have an audience. I seriously don't think that the network would continue to air a television show (6) seasons, that had no viewers. And in that respect, Criss Angel and his team ARE doing something right. Again, I don't really like the show, but SOMEONE out there must. Well, millions of someones.

    But I definitely agree with the post about the "Mindfreak Aces"...I watched the video performance and there is not one single "move" in there that would signify any sort of originality at all. So on that note, I am going to go work on my newest original effect, "Card stuck to the top of a structure of some sort"

    Mike
     
  16. Please read that again and find yourself seeing how ridicolous it actually is. He is on national television, he is obviously doing something right.

    -S
     
  17. Criss Angel never started out with millions people so don't be using that as the reason why he's so popular or a "great" magician. Even if he did start out with millions it would put him in a worse spot because it mean it was all for the flash of it all. The guy does magic and it's cool but it's by no means great and his style is way to...all about him.
     
  18. I can respect him as an entertainer. I can't respect him as a magician. Yes he does entertain home viewers, who are fooled by camera tricks and stooges. The people he is supposedly entertaining ON TV, are stooges. You can tell by their poor acting and poor/fake reactions. I don't mind a stooge once in a while, but every episode, and nearly every effect has at least one stooge. I find watching magic on TV entertaining because I like watching peoples reactions. If they are stooges, then it's no fun, because I know everything was a setup. I can easily spot stooges, so watching Criss is no fun most of the time. He's used way WAY too many camera tricks. For instance when he climbed out of the manhole, then rolled up the man hole. Camera trick. You could never perform many many of his effects without camera tricks/editing. I've posted reasons why I dislike Criss Angel as a magician ad nauseum, and never once was it because I was jealous of his fame/fortune/attractiveness. It was because he really isn't a magician. He's just an actor on a scripted show. It might as well be a show about special effects because everything is scripted, down to the spectators on the show. That's not magic. That's acting.

    I have no problem with him selling a variation on an illusion as this is how it's done most of the time. Anytime you see a trick for sale, it's probably credited to someone else, or it's a variation.
     
  19. This is where you are wrong...
    Criss Angel is a magician. Even by definition of what a magician is: an actor playing the part of a magician. And Criss fits this bill.

    He actually had a pretty kickass show in NYC some time ago - before his now known Mindfreak show. And from what I do know, his mother took a second mortgage out on her house to help Criss fund that show. And Guess what, it worked.

    I definately do agree with the stooge factor, as he does use quite a bit. But there are also routines on there that use real spectators too. Not enough in my opinion.

    But to say that the man is not a magician is just rude and plain wrong.

    I met Criss at Jeff McBride's house and listened to him talk about magic and how much he loves and cares for the art. He has a passion for magic just like we all do.

    While Criss is not someone I look up to as a mentor in magic, I definately do respect him because he is a magician. And hell...I wish I had my own friggin tv show...lol
     
  20. how did this go from a simple question of ethics on the new dvd to camera trickrey and stage magic.
     
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