Dealing with Skeptics.

Feb 18, 2011
83
1
Under your bed
Hey guys,

How do you deal with skeptics (smart a**es) who think they are the best and know about everything you're doing?

There's this guy at school and many times when I want to perform to someone, he comes close and starts telling people how he thinks I do it... He's really annoying... But he figured out the Erdnase Colour Change, and At the end of the tricks he keeps yapping to everyone, but I kept saying that's not how I do it...

What do I do to shut him up? =)
 
Sep 18, 2010
34
0
There are two ways: either you don't perform when he is around, or another way- you slap that mo fo in the face like David Stone would.
 
Sep 17, 2010
22
0
NC
Hand him the deck. Tell the audience that he's really smart and he can do amazing things as well, right before he stutters and walks away feeling like the idiot he is.
 
Feb 7, 2011
362
1
Hand him the deck. Tell the audience that he's really smart and he can do amazing things as well, right before he stutters and walks away feeling like the idiot he is.

You guys clearly dont deal with hecklers that often. You finish up, and you walk away. Come back later if the others were enjoying your performance, in my experience, the group will shush the heckler to stop you leaving again, or sometimes the heckler will just let you get on with it. Now thats from my experience, but it's up to you to judge for yourself. The main point here, is dont ever battle, embarass or get into a clash of wits with a heckler, because he's first and formost a spectator, if you go on to do professional work, you cant insult the people who dont want to see magic, what if it were the host's tipsy brother, do you think you'd be re-hired?

And in a school situation, i dont recommend making anyone feel like an idiot, if you get away with that, then you should be damn glad you didn't go to the school i went to.

Lastly, in that situation, id smile and say "you got me, i was trying to do it the easy way, are you gonna make me do it the real way? Ok look..." Then id peform another colour change, one with little or no cover. Always smile and laugh, always.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dec 26, 2009
242
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Hey guys,

How do you deal with skeptics (smart a**es) who think they are the best and know about everything you're doing?

There's this guy at school and many times when I want to perform to someone, he comes close and starts telling people how he thinks I do it... He's really annoying... But he figured out the Erdnase Colour Change, and At the end of the tricks he keeps yapping to everyone, but I kept saying that's not how I do it...

What do I do to shut him up? =)


I don't believe in tucking your tail between your legs and running away from a heckler and you really don't want to come right out and make him feel like an idiot by talking down to him in front of the entire group. You can use him to your advantage though. Perform strictly for him. Bring him up in front of the group and perform something that WILL fool him. I do think saying something along the lines of, "You seem to know what you are talking about. Have you done magic before?"

ReservoirRed had some good advice on what to say as well,

in that situation, id smile and say "you got me, i was trying to do it the easy way, are you gonna make me do it the real way? Ok look..."
and then from there you perform something that is more difficult to catch.

IMO the best thing you can do is fool this guy with a trick in front of everyone. You can also perform a trick where you bring him up to the front of the group and tell him something like, "Since you seem to know so much about magic I am going to show you a trick then teach it to you." Perform the trick and then give the group a BS answer for how the trick is done.

One last thing, I would seriously work hard on the stuff this guy is catching. Chances are he isn't the only one catching things you are doing. He is just the only one that is a big enough jerk to call you out on it in front of everyone.
 

RickEverhart

forum moderator / t11
Elite Member
Sep 14, 2008
3,637
471
46
Louisville, OH
Red is correct. It may be ok to get into it with someone who is at school but you cannot "get into it" with a client or a guest of the client or you are doomed. You will not get rehired. I had a similar experience working at a wedding reception and a drunk guy kept following me around. I simply stopped...took a 5 minute restroom break and came back all the way over on the opposite side of the ballroom.

My experience thus far is to finish up and walk away or ignore it and go into the next thing. As the heckler keeps interrupting....the others around him will get sick of hearing him and tell him to shut up and enjoy the magic.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
How do you deal with skeptics (smart a**es) who think they are the best and know about everything you're doing?

That's not a skeptic.

What do I do to shut him up? =)

Don't perform at school. Or at least wait until he's not around. If he insists on showing up and doing this whole spiel, just wrap up and say it's not fun when someone tries to rain on the parade. Let him tie his own rope.

Hand him the deck. Tell the audience that he's really smart and he can do amazing things as well, right before he stutters and walks away feeling like the idiot he is.

While you're at it, why don't you just go ahead and drive a nail through your hand while sticking your junk in a hornet's nest and shouting racial slurs within earshot of a bunch of non-white people? You've obviously never performed for a difficult spectator in your life, and I'm willing to bet you don't perform much in general, if at all.
 
Aug 10, 2008
2,023
2
33
In a rock concert
Play it using their ego as your platform to perform :). Don't do the tricks sayiing that they are "Magical" or stuff like that, maybe start using CardSharks as a explanation to what you are doing and for your patter, (even if you aren't doing card shark stuff). I have two different routines for this kind of situation, let me re-post the thing here :

Magic or trickery?

Jesus, Have I seen this debate to death? A lot of magicians defend the thought of "use theater! sell your effects as real magic!" while other hang to the thought of "Tell them is sleight of hand and let them marvel at your skill, they are not dumb! they of course know that magic doesn't exist!"

I have found myself lost in this discussion for some time witouth knowing what to do, Until I realised that we all could do something really simple( wich I have been doing for some time with great results).

Why not use both?

Whenever someone tell's me what is my set or routines of tricks,I explain my layout like this:

I have two sets of routines/effects and one opener, I call one of the sets "magic" and the other "trickery", and my opener is a pretty standard in the hands transposition.

Now, how does this works? It's simple really, the opening (As some people have pointed out before) in my opinion it's about gaining two things from the spectator, their attention and rapport. If you fail to get any of these two things during your opening trick, you may find yourself in a situation where either they are happy and comfortable around you, but they aren't that interested in your magic, or, they are going to be interested in what you are doing, but they are not going to follow directions right, or simply heckle you for the fun of it.

Now, I'm not going to talk about rapport because it's a topic that's been covered to death(use the search engine) and about attention? I may write about it in the coming days. But for now let's talk about using either magic or trickery as presentation.

I tend to use quite a bit of patter during my tricks, but during the opening sequence (the transposition), I don't try to explain the trick, or add some wicked story, the trick is doing the work all by itself it is "OPENING" people, and I let it do his work, I tend to focus on gathering rapport and attention with them, so that the rest of my tricks can flow well witouth disturbances of either kind.

In my humble opinion, a Magician (among other things) has to be observative and be able to adapt to situations and in the way I perform here is why it is important to have both:

Once I open, there are two possibilities, either they respond to it like it is magic, or they respond to it by thinking that it is trickery.

Of course I would prefer them to think that is something beyond sleight of hand, something either magical or unexplained. I love it.

So, what If they respond to it like it is magic? Then my work becomes easier and I perform my effects with the patter I already have practiced, trying to make them believe furhter more that something else is happening.

Easy, we all know how to perform those kind of tricks.

Now, what about those that love presenting magic as trickery/sleight of hand ? Now, those that defend this kind of thought usually have some very valid points, but in my opinion there is a really bad problem here.

It kills hope. Yeah, sounds cheesy, but often I have found people that try to cling (either if they admit it or not) to the thought that magic maybe exists (I have to say thanks to criss angle for that). And just saying "it is sleight of hand" kills that hope.

So maybe you have found youself in the situation where you enter this fight against the spectator trying to convince him that it is magic, and in response they heckle back.

Try to do it in a more subtle way.

Once I have observed that the spectators react to the trick like "slick hands!" or " wow you are pretty fast", I am (inside) like, "ok, let's play it their way then".

I start performing the effects from my trickery set, just like they think they are performed, I open with Collectors (DnD Version) using gambling as patter, and slowly evolving doing tricks like reset or the invisible palm routine, where more "impossible" feats are occurring.

What it's my aim? I'm not telling them directly "hey believe in magic" but by making the effects evolve in that way, a thought slowly starts to grow inside the spectator" it's sleight of hand, but, could it be something more? He is fast, but there is no logical explanation to that".

At the end of the performance they may still not believe that you are doing magic, but that little pebble will star to grow as doubt in their heads until they doubt thy're own logic.

And I have proof, really try it, I have performed this way and people (who claimed that it all was sleight of hand) later came on their own to ask me very seriously " can it be real magic?"

Try it, and let me hear your thoughts.

Good luck man
 
There's a lot of sound good advice in this thread from Steer, Rever, and Red. In a school setting, where you're going to be seeing this kid every day for the next how ever many years, probably wouldn't be a good idea to run heckler lines or make him feel like an idiot. Even though he is one. The best thing to do is either shut down, and stop performing, or perform when he's not around. If he shows up just tell everyone that you won't work with him around, and stick to it. The audience, if they like you, will police themselves.
 
Apr 4, 2011
5
0
While you're at it, why don't you just go ahead and drive a nail through your hand while sticking your junk in a hornet's nest and shouting racial slurs within earshot of a bunch of non-white people? You've obviously never performed for a difficult spectator in your life, and I'm willing to bet you don't perform much in general, if at all.

Query: Is this absolutely necessary? Isn't this comment in violation of that whole be "constructive in your criticism" stipulation that I just read over when I registered? From a spec's perspective to this site - I just joined - I truly feel happy to be a female performer and a naive teenager because it appears that most of these responses seem more about "let's take a ruler out and measure" rather than actually offering fellow artists something of substance. Yikes.
 
Sep 1, 2007
723
2
Query: Is this absolutely necessary? Isn't this comment in violation of that whole be "constructive in your criticism" stipulation that I just read over when I registered? From a spec's perspective to this site - I just joined - I truly feel happy to be a female performer and a naive teenager because it appears that most of these responses seem more about "let's take a ruler out and measure" rather than actually offering fellow artists something of substance. Yikes.

valid point but you get used to Steerpike after a while. Sometimes he means well

Anyway, great advice in this thread. In a professional setting it depends on your character, as well as your age. Adults will heckle other adults but it's hard to find an Adult who will heckle a kid who looks significantly younger than them. As with character, strong headed characters like Gazzo don't get a ton of hecklers, and when they do they might take them head on. Others have different approaches. There's no one single way to get rid of awful spectators, and even worse it's all in the context. Good luck man.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Query: Is this absolutely necessary?

Let me answer that with another question: Why should that stop me? I make no apologies for the fact that I have no tolerance for the asinine, "Take that!" attitude that a lot of would-be and novice magicians take up. It's poisonous and needs to be snuffed out at every opportunity. They're not being funny like Don Rickles. They're just douchebags mouthing off to their audience at the slightest transgression, real or imagined.

Isn't this comment in violation of that whole be "constructive in your criticism" stipulation that I just read over when I registered?

This does not make me feel very optimistic. Criticism is when someone looks you in the eye and says, "No, what you did was wrong and here's why." What did you think it was?

Anyway, I used hyperbole to illustrate that handing your deck to a tough spectator and inviting him to show everyone how you do it is a stupid idea that will bite you in the ass eventually. Shall I construct a flow chart as well or is it clear now? I don't coddle. I don't play favorites. I don't pull my punches. If that is a problem, then at least have the decency not to post in a thread with the sole intent of complaining about me. You'll be accomplishing precisely nothing.

On a note relating to the actual thread instead of people *****ing about me yet again, who here other than Will can actually describe the difference between a skeptic, a tough spectator and a heckler? If we're going to have this conversation, that distinction needs to be made because it's pretty obvious a lot of you don't know.
 
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Apr 4, 2011
5
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I make no apologies for the fact that I have no tolerance for the asinine, "Take that!" attitude ... it's poisonous and needs to be snuffed out at every opportunity. They're not being funny like Don Rickles. They're just douchebags mouthing off ...

^ Ironic: Hello, kettle, meet pot.

Sage advice for any artists/performers/creators who prefer to keep their focus on the craft itself rather than glasshouse stoning: "Keep away from people who belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you too can become great."
 
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