Ethics Question

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by worldwideme, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. Hearing the song before you buy it is like trying out an effect. To see how it goes and if you like it. Like I said before. If im planning to continue PERforming it, than I will buy it. But if it doesn`t go well than I won`t and won`t continue to PERform it.

    Oh i'm terribly sorry you couldn't understand me. I'll try to spell it properly next time so you can figure it out.

    Also, try being creative and creating. If I see something, I'll work my own method whether its right or wrong and make the effect fit me. Not pay 30 bucks to learn the same thing the other 5000 12 year olds on youtube are doing.
  2. Ha. "Be creative and creating" by recreating the effect that everyone else is doing in your own way. Or you could not watch other performers and just create your own material.

    You still didn't come up with the idea. Someone else did. You're coming up with your own method, but you didn't have the first idea until you saw the person in the demo video do it.

    Honestly, I'm done. I don't really care that much if your own ethics are looser than mine and to be perfectly honest, this discussion is a lot like hammering a nail into a brick wall with my forehead. Painful, difficult, and in the end it won't stick anyway.

  3. You are correct.

    Sadly, those who cannot come up with their own ideas, or those who feel entitled to everything, cannot comprehend this worldview.

    There are a lot of them out there.

    Keep fighting the good fight.
  4. To be honest with you. I dont think were arguing about completely different views. Im saying that you should purchase a product if your going to use it and so are you. BUT what I'm saying is that it is ok to test out the effect to see if you like it. Sort of like a test drive. Then buy it if your gonna use it to support the creators or scrap it if you dont. Sorry if it came out like i'm saying F U to all the creators. And I really dont feel like arguing anymore. Im having a rough week.
  5. #25 Bill Charlton, Aug 22, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 22, 2010
    So if I figured out an effect from the trailer or promotional video , must I pay for it just to have the right to perform it ? Its like you , finding a used book on the floor and then searching endlessly for the shop that sold it so that you could pay for it before reading it.Is it logical ? I think not.

    EDIT : Ignore this if this is irrelavant.
  6. There's a dvd for the shapeshifter?
  7. Here's the way I see it.
    Its all about money.
    Are you making money from the effect? or will you ever make money from the effect?
    If the answer is no, then you can perform it tell you're hands fall off and i see no problem.

    If i created a piece of magic, and someone figured it out. Then went out and performed it on live tv and made a bunch of money, yeah i would be mad. But if you figure it out, and show it to you're friends then i wouldn't care.
    I wouldn't really care if you used it in you're professional act, as long as you are not running around making large sums of money.

    I think this is a completely different topic then pirating dvd's and music.
    I don't think you can put them in the same category.

    all in all, i think it comes down too money.
  8. So its fine ? I don't make money off magic since I have a real job and the only times I get money are tips.
  9. You lost me on this one... what are you referring to? This is an ancient thread with the most recent post prior to your own was nearly two years ago... ???
  10. quoted for truth!
  11. i made this thread like...two days ago.
  12. I suppose it's like the difference between reading and performing a play. If I was to buy a copy of a script and read it, then i've credited the author, but if I was to then perform it, I need to pay a fee for actually putting it on stage and making money out of it.

    If reading the play is like watching a demo, then that's fine, but to then use the concept that someone else has created, in my opinion, then you ought to further credit them by purchasing the product (paying a performance fee in my previous analogy) and support creativity.

    I suppose it works out to this (expanding on an arguement made by someone else earlier), it's unlikely that you would have come up with the concept or idea without some form of stimulus, so therefore you are taking something, if not the entire effect, away from someone who has earned your credit.
  13. They're your ethics, not ours. You decide.
  14. Why? Is there not VALUE in being able to share magic with your friends and family. Do you and they not get enjoyment from it? Why should it boil down to professional gigs? Let's face it, most people who buy magic and support the release and creation of items are NOT pros, they are amateurs. If all amateurs followed this advice, the flow of creative ideas into the marketplace would cease.

    Further, there are people who just like to buy magic. They like to learn secrets. They like to watch performances. These people support the market. Your position gives them free license to steal, basically. I don't think that's what you intend, but it makes your position worth revising.

    Here's the problem - you are assuming that what YOU feel is what everyone would or should feel. If you want to give your material away for free to those who want to use it in a non-commercial setting, no one would fault you for that.

    But should we expect all magicians to feel the same way you do? Shouldn't THEY get to decide how their material is disseminated?


    This is a twisted scenario. If you found a magic book on the ground, then lucky you. That is different from watching someone else's work - which they sell - and then willfully deconstructing it for your own use. You are INTENTIONALLY taking and using their ideas. Intention goes a long way in ethics.

    Except, that information is now part of your toolbox. Most of my friends who are pros buy every book they can get their hands on. How much of that material gets added to their shows? Well, directly - almost none. BUT the thinking, the techniques, the thoughts influence their thinking and they have more resources with which to create.

    I am putting together a series of magical reveals for an awards show and am tapping into materials I purchased a decade ago.

    If you look at magic as nothing more than a series of tricks - then I can see how your position would make sense. But being a magician is more than just doing a bunch of tricks, especially if you ever strive to be original. Any information you gain has value.

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