Help Us Stop Magic Piracy

[WitchDocIsIn]

^ amen dude.

These Jason England 1-on-1s are becoming a joke. Just another way for Jonathan Bayme to make money, reselling old effects but in "HD" for mass appeal to young kids who could care less about who made it originally. It's sick and misconstrued, but hell they're making cash and that's what it's all about these days, right?

It's mindsets like this that make me twitch.

They've never once claimed that the 1on1s that Jason has done are of original sleights, to my knowledge. He is a card expert, with twenty years of experience. Jason England doing a video on the classic pass for $10? That's a joke? Really? There was a time when you'd have to hunt someone like him down, then earn his respect, then know him for a year or two before he'd start to teach you anything. Now you can get his insights for ten friggin' dollars.

If there's a joke here, it's that he's doing the videos at all.

Yes, you can learn everything he's put out from books. You can also learn how to juggle from a book. It'll take you quite a while, trust me I've seen it attempted. Or, you could ask me for a personal lesson and I'll have you doing the cascade (standard) pattern in an hour.

I can't believe how disrespectful people can be. An expert shares his knowledge, and it's called a joke. Well, that's cool, you go ahead and skip over them. I'll buy them, and I'll stand on the shoulders of giants.

 

[willabbotsm]

I'm not saying you should learn all of your sleights from books, I'm just saying that maybe there are better ways to learn these things. They're selling these things for $5 a sleight, which is a little much. Plus, Jason England's pass is just awful.

Now, I know I would get bashed for that, because I'm not sucking up to T11. But I think T11 should really focus on the original stuff. T11 has put out some wonderful products, and they have some of today's greatest magicians on their teams. With all that creativity, I don't think they need some "card expert" re-selling classic sleights in HD. Don't get me wrong, Jason England is good, but he's only good at other people's stuff. I'd love to see some original effects from him, as I'm sure he's created some. And, I can't believe you guys think this is the only video of these sleights. Ken Krenzel is probably the best man to do the pass, and anyone who has a good pass learned it from Ken Krenzel. Gary Oulette can attest to this. I think people should be learning their sleights from places other than T11, as T11 was founded on originality, and original effects. They're kind of lacking now, in my opinion.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

Jason England's pass is 'just awful'? Which part? The part where there's no left finger movement to give it away? The part where it's so quick I had to watch the video three times to catch the movement at all? I've seen Krenzel's pass, I thought it was obvious.

Honestly, you're coming across as an anti-fanboi now, and I'm done with this discussion.

 

[WitchDocIsIn]

So ... you've never seen a jiggle pass or a half jiggle pass, I take it?

 

[willabbotsm]

You guys have clearly never been in debate before. I could point out all the fallacies on your arguments (would take a while), but I'll just point your main problem: argumentum ad hominem. You're probably clueless so let me fill you in. An Ad Hominem argument is appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect.
You're probably clueless, so read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Claiming that my opinions have no validity because "I shouldn't be dissing him like this" and that "I probably suck in real life" is completely false and illogical, and stated out of anger. Insulting me to try and make my claims less valid is one of the most frowned-upon methods of arguing your case.

Most of the time, people resort to these kinds of statements because what they're trying to state has little to no validity, so they have to resort to childish insults and fallacious statements.

some examples of Ad Hominem statements in your posts:

"Jason England is a master card handler and you shouldn't be dissing him like this"

"I'd like to see you be HALF as good as him. I bet you suck in real life."

"way to generalize and be a whiny kid. I can't believe how disrespectful you are being."

"If someone is smelling irony, wash you upper lip. If you were in my living room right now you'd get the same response and an ear full more. "

Now, please, learn to argue a point properly before you try and pull this kind of nonsense. It's okay to be wrong, just realize that please.

 

[Robert//Livingston]

It's what the consumer wants.

If we want to be a part of this community, and purchase from these artists that is great for us. People actually WANT 1-on-1's from Jason England on the pass.

If you want it from someone else, go somewhere else. All your doing is complaining about T11, so just leave and be part of a different community.

If you don't like the way the website is run, or the videos that are coming out, go to Ellusionist.

I don't see how being a jerk and making stupid statements gets anything done. Other than to quell your boredom or make you feel better, it has no point.

Also this thread has seem to gone off topic. From being about fighting piracy, to your favorite artist to do the pass.

 

[AlfieWhattamMagic]

You guys have clearly never been in debate before. I could point out all the fallacies on your arguments (would take a while), but I'll just point your main problem: argumentum ad hominem. You're probably clueless so let me fill you in. An Ad Hominem argument is appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect.
You're probably clueless, so read up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Claiming that my opinions have no validity because "I shouldn't be dissing him like this" and that "I probably suck in real life" is completely false and illogical, and stated out of anger. Insulting me to try and make my claims less valid is one of the most frowned-upon methods of arguing your case.

Most of the time, people resort to these kinds of statements because what they're trying to state has little to no validity, so they have to resort to childish insults and fallacious statements.

some examples of Ad Hominem statements in your posts:

"Jason England is a master card handler and you shouldn't be dissing him like this"

"I'd like to see you be HALF as good as him. I bet you suck in real life."

"way to generalize and be a whiny kid. I can't believe how disrespectful you are being."

"If someone is smelling irony, wash you upper lip. If you were in my living room right now you'd get the same response and an ear full more. "

Now, please, learn to argue a point properly before you try and pull this kind of nonsense. It's okay to be wrong, just realize that please.

I love how a simple thread explaining why we should stop magic exposure turns into a fight about why Jason England sucks.... Typiclal Theory11.

 

[Nino]

This thread should go back to topic. So no more about Jason England.

 

[willabbotsm]

More fallacies. This is getting ridiculous.

"If you don't like the way the website is run, or the videos that are coming out, go to Ellusionist."

Argument By Dismissal:

an idea is rejected without saying why.

Dismissals usually have overtones. For example, "If you don't like the way the website is run, or the videos that are coming out, go to Ellusionist." implies that your cause is hopeless, and you are rejecting my valid facts blindly, to support your case.

"I don't see how being a jerk and making stupid statements gets anything done." Adds emotion to it, which shows you have run out of false points, so you resort to emotion and insult.

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Your cause = Hopeless.

You had no idea to reject. All you had were insults and disrespect twords T11 artists.

 

[willabbotsm]

I had valid statements and opinions. Again, please read up on how to properly debate. This is ridicolous. Every post you have is full of Ad Hominem arguments, and blind logic. You have not made a valid statement towards your case, you're just telling me why I shouldn't be saying what I'm saying, which is a worthless way to convince people.

 

[Nino]

I had valid statements and opinions. Again, please read up on how to properly debate. This is ridicolous. Every post you have is full of Ad Hominem arguments, and blind logic. You have not made a valid statement towards your case, you're just telling me why I shouldn't be saying what I'm saying, which is a worthless way to convince people.

Look just stop this. Willabbostm if you want to give your valid statement and opinion please pm the people and stoping posting this already.

 

[willabbotsm]

"worthless dribble"? You consider it worthless dribble, because you don't understand it.

I made valid statements, you just didn't post them. I stated why Jason England's pass demo wasn't good, yet you ingore that and insult me. Please, read up on how to argue properly.

 

[Robert//Livingston]

Again, you don't post any valid statements or answer any questions regarding your posts. You just go on talking about nonsense.

 

[worldwideme]

guys shut up. now. this is absurd.

 

[willabbotsm]

"nonsense"? You consider it worthless dribble, because you don't understand it.

I made valid statements, you just didn't post them. I stated why Jason England's pass demo wasn't good, yet you ingore that and insult me. Please, read up on how to argue properly.

 

[magicmaster]

Just stop posting, dude. I think you made your point a long time ago. Like I said before, this isn't a place to argue.

 

[willabbotsm]

I agree, this thread has gotten enough off-topic. I express my opinion on 1-on-1s, and some people go off on a tangent insulting me, saying I suck, ect in a childish manner.

After being severely served by logic & knowlege, they kept going, some people don't know when they're done.

I think this thread should go back to people posting torrent & ftp links to T11 files. (which kind of destroys the purpose )

 

[JK HANSEN]

Maybe for music bro.. probably not for magic, especially if magicians are the pirates..

 

[KeoSilver]

After being severely served by logic & knowlege, they kept going, some people don't know when they're done.

*Cough Cough* Irony! *Cough Cough*