Wow, this seems like it's getting to be a three-man discussion here. Sorry to break it up... anyway, Brad, if you are going to be around Philly please check your PMs.
Thanks,
-Sanj
Thanks,
-Sanj
I don't completely understand it...
- Thread starter CardShark13
- Start date
tsss, after all this steer-Brad discussion all what I have to say are two things...
Brad, steerpike talks about what he knows, and he knows what he knows because of the actual experience that he has..
Second, everybody can defend their opinion as they please, but just because it is your opinion doesnt means that it is the correct one...
Both of you have very validate points, but we have to remember that we as human beings, we are very different form each other, so what may work for you may not work as well with steer and vice versa, so defend your point all you like, just dont come with the attitude of "Im right you are wrong" thing.
I have actually have learned a lot form steer and I dont think that he is "in the wrong way", everybody travels in different paths.
cheers!
Brad, steerpike talks about what he knows, and he knows what he knows because of the actual experience that he has..
Second, everybody can defend their opinion as they please, but just because it is your opinion doesnt means that it is the correct one...
Both of you have very validate points, but we have to remember that we as human beings, we are very different form each other, so what may work for you may not work as well with steer and vice versa, so defend your point all you like, just dont come with the attitude of "Im right you are wrong" thing.
I have actually have learned a lot form steer and I dont think that he is "in the wrong way", everybody travels in different paths.
cheers!
Steer. The point is that you are far too inexperienced to be able to judge if the method you are advocating is indeed a viable one. It is not about opinions. It is not about being right or wrong. It is about someone who has been in magic only a handful of years with no discernable credentials offering a path that is at this point unproven.
But I have accomplished all I need. Steer has admitted that his choices are experimental. He has told us that he is making decisions based on incomplete information (I have no intentions to buy card college) and willfully abdicating established paths for the sake of iconoclasm alone. And he has demonstrated that he is unaware that one of the central premise of his position (concerning too much info) flies in the face of what we know can work.I have no doubt steer believes his path is right for him. It is critical that others know that it is proven to work for no one - not even him, as of yet.
Steer is a newbie. As Guy Jarrett said ' this dancer was so green she had never pissed in a bathroom sink.'
Get some flight time. Make some mistakes. Then preach.
Brad
But I have accomplished all I need. Steer has admitted that his choices are experimental. He has told us that he is making decisions based on incomplete information (I have no intentions to buy card college) and willfully abdicating established paths for the sake of iconoclasm alone. And he has demonstrated that he is unaware that one of the central premise of his position (concerning too much info) flies in the face of what we know can work.I have no doubt steer believes his path is right for him. It is critical that others know that it is proven to work for no one - not even him, as of yet.
Steer is a newbie. As Guy Jarrett said ' this dancer was so green she had never pissed in a bathroom sink.'
Get some flight time. Make some mistakes. Then preach.
Brad
That's the attitude I was talking about
... Starting to judge someone capabilities considering only what you have talked with him in the past 2 hours over internet....well you get my point.
Who said I had to buy it to know what's in it?
A variety of reasons, events, and decisions that came to my determination to walk the path that I do... and it all means nothing in light of the fact that I'm just a dick.
Brad, were you even listening when I explained why I do this? Do you actually believe I'm only doing this to be contrary, to piss you off?
RD, steer and I have had many exchangesand I have read a good number of his posts. We have discussed some of his experiences both publicly and privately. .that aside, several of his posts indicate a lack of experience/knowledge in the history of ideas. Regardless, no one becomes an experienced magician in 6 years.
I look forward to steer's and my paths crossing one day. I am sure it will be a fun conversation.
I look forward to steer's and my paths crossing one day. I am sure it will be a fun conversation.
I'm goign to come out right here (that's what she said...or he said). We have jsut enoguh reason to hate or boycott Ellusionist as we do Theory11. I know that if I said this on the Ellusionist forum (which I once did), I would be banned, but it's a risk willing to take.
The reason we HATE Ellusionist or Theory11 or Penguinmagic or wherever it may be that you are not liking, is because they are too stingy! We pay a whopping 30 bucks for a freakin coin vanish or striking vanish "variation". Why should we have to do that? OPEN A ****ING BOOK!!!
Raise your hand if you know that almot EVERYTHING Ellusionist has "created" or produced, has been in print before *raises hand*. Revolution coin vanish. A sad mockery of almost an entire chapter of Bobo's modern coin magic. How to do street magic. Go to Barnes and Noble and learn how to do street magic. There are books on it and other sources BETTER than this. Almost the entire DVD can be found in books already in print. Tagged? Reed McCLintock did something that accomplishes the same thing. Rocco even has a variant on it that came out before this. King's rising? pretty much every other impromptu levitation, come on! Guerilla Gude to loops. Almost everything in there isn't there own creations which surprised came to a surprise for me since I respect Kranzo, he's a really classy guy. Also Marc DeSouza. What the hell is he doing lowering himself and putting on DVD what is already published in a book by him?
What ISN'T to hate about them. There ways are just TERRIBLE. To be totally honest with you here, I could even name a few about Theory11 but I won't to keep this short and not piss off as many people as I can. Penguin Magic even has a couple dirty secrets some of us know about.
Also, it exceeds the fact that these tricks are marketed right from the source. It all comes down to crediting. I watch one of these and say "dammit, they did it again!!" and then when I find that there are no credits for any of this, I'm even more mad. Not only did they steal the effect, they didn't properly credit the creator of it. Magic DVDs need to really put their credits in line. I don't see what is stopping you. If you have nothing to hide then why not credit. And DON'T use the line, "I have nothing to credit" or "I am the original creator. I came up with this".
We have every reason to boycott Ellusionist man. If everybody in here picked up a few books, we will see VERY quickly how "innocent" these people really are!
The reason we HATE Ellusionist or Theory11 or Penguinmagic or wherever it may be that you are not liking, is because they are too stingy! We pay a whopping 30 bucks for a freakin coin vanish or striking vanish "variation". Why should we have to do that? OPEN A ****ING BOOK!!!
Raise your hand if you know that almot EVERYTHING Ellusionist has "created" or produced, has been in print before *raises hand*. Revolution coin vanish. A sad mockery of almost an entire chapter of Bobo's modern coin magic. How to do street magic. Go to Barnes and Noble and learn how to do street magic. There are books on it and other sources BETTER than this. Almost the entire DVD can be found in books already in print. Tagged? Reed McCLintock did something that accomplishes the same thing. Rocco even has a variant on it that came out before this. King's rising? pretty much every other impromptu levitation, come on! Guerilla Gude to loops. Almost everything in there isn't there own creations which surprised came to a surprise for me since I respect Kranzo, he's a really classy guy. Also Marc DeSouza. What the hell is he doing lowering himself and putting on DVD what is already published in a book by him?
What ISN'T to hate about them. There ways are just TERRIBLE. To be totally honest with you here, I could even name a few about Theory11 but I won't to keep this short and not piss off as many people as I can. Penguin Magic even has a couple dirty secrets some of us know about.
Also, it exceeds the fact that these tricks are marketed right from the source. It all comes down to crediting. I watch one of these and say "dammit, they did it again!!" and then when I find that there are no credits for any of this, I'm even more mad. Not only did they steal the effect, they didn't properly credit the creator of it. Magic DVDs need to really put their credits in line. I don't see what is stopping you. If you have nothing to hide then why not credit. And DON'T use the line, "I have nothing to credit" or "I am the original creator. I came up with this".
We have every reason to boycott Ellusionist man. If everybody in here picked up a few books, we will see VERY quickly how "innocent" these people really are!
Same reason he published it in a book in the first place. He likes our money.
Why stop? It was just getting good. I mean, hell! You brought it up! Do tell.
He probably put out the Shapeshifter DVD because his book went out of print and figured it would be easier to just teach it on DVD. Plus he likes money. But then again. Who doesn't?
I don't think hating on E or Theory 11 or whoever because they have released new variations on classic effects makes them bad.
I don't think hating on E or Theory 11 or whoever because they have released new variations on classic effects makes them bad.
I will name whatever you want about Theory11 via PM but I don't want to do it publicly and get banned for it lol. Marc DeSouza definetly doesn't want the money. He is a very wealthy man and I'm sure Brad Christian probably begged him for it. It was in his book so it doesn't need to be on DVD.
or maybe he just wants his effects to reach a wider and different demographic.
Money doesnt rule everyone.
Oh no, you aren't getting off that easy. If you publicly bad mouth one company, then imply that you have more dirt on everyone else, it's disingenuous to then say you're not going to discuss it in public.
Gotta love the internet.
Ha!
Wanting money doesn't mean it defines your existence. Look at Alice Cooper.
I could pull a Steerpike and sub-quote every part of your ridiculous post but to be honest with you I'd rather do something more interesting with my life...like cutting my fingernails, or going to the toilet.
But the quote above is interesting, as it seems you are another of the myriad people in the world that believes everything should be sold for the price you want to pay for it. Pathetic.
If magic was more expensive (yes, more expensive then the massive amount of expense it already costs...shocking) then less people would buy it, therefore making it all the more 'underground' for the those that choose to fork over the cash (with a bent fork if it was for a Banachek DVD). And I'd vote for that change. The less whining children (age is of no concern in this example) we have bemoaning the politics of capitalism in regard to magic, the better. Put down your cards, go to college (or if you've already left, go back) and get into politics, then change this evil world from within, not from the furthest reaches of the outside.
This is too expensive, that's too expensive, this has been seen before somewhere else blah blah, etc etc....
Unbelievable. It's lucky that you're around to point all that out, maybe you should get in touch with all the creators that Ellusionist and everyone else has ripped off...I'm betting you'll have a shock. Before citing products that have no merit and should never have been sold based on your own theories, better to have looked up the history of said products first. Since you're so fond of history.
Oh..and as for the martyrdom in the third sentence...it is plainly obvious from reading your post why you would have been banned from Ellusionists boards. And even though I don't know you, I don't miss you.
While you sit and laugh and prepare your insults based on my signature, know only this of me: I'll be drinking beer and enjoying the company of my girlfriend, and I won't be worrying about you or what you have to say one little bit. Why? because I have a life.
Apologies to all others in this thread for my venom but the same tired old arguments are now getting on my nerves to such an extent that I'm not even taking my own advice; which was to stop *****ing at one another as we're supposed to be here to further ourselves in a passion we enjoy.
Whatever.
Rabid
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Look on the positive side. You were able to show enough restraint to avoid mentioning that anyone who makes a "That's what she said," joke should be torn in half by sumo wrestlers.