Is magic art?

[ajp500]

It's not arrogant, it's more so of an opinion but in my mind a very correct one. What in that performance is good at all really? Other webcam on youtube and the same old effect with the same meaningless patter.

Do you think it was art Rmana? If you say yes then please stop lying.

Well im glad you covered for me when i cant get to the computer. (same with the other post)

But we should be studying on the second video i posted, thats a routine we should all be looking for something that powerful and remeberable. Do all routines have to have that same impact though? It depends, magic tricks should be tooken out of real life experinces, kind of like comendy, someone/somthing people can relate to.

Like That kid who recently got his gum trick published (I really wish i remember his name) Its gum!! everyone hates when they have the last stick left, and to change that grabs peoples attention.

What will magic a art 100% of the time will change when we change. Ill be waiting.

 

[visualartist]

Magic is an art.
Not everyone who performs it is an artist.
Like drawing/painting/etc. Its art(duh). But if I get a few charcoal pencils and pastels,blah blah blah.And I like to doodle sometimes.Does not make me an artist. Even less so if I dont use art as a viable way to express myself or spark ideas in other people.Not an artist. I just use the tools.
Same for magic

 

[canadamagic]

My opinion

Don't call someone dude if you want to be taken serious on something. Did he ever say that he never sucked or anything or about people sucking? Your post makes no sense, anywhere, and maybe it's the grammar but some of it is just plain incomprehensible. You unfortunately still have the little kid magic in you not the more "mature" understanding of magic.

Now to clarify the post you are complaining about. He, which I suppose is a he, talks about that many people do not have the skills to pull off the real magic that magicians want. I still haven't reached that potential, my guess is nobody that has posted in this thread has reached it. It's not something easily obtainable and it's very rare.

I see to many magicians showing cool tricks and not attempting to show magic effects. These people need to be shown what's being done wrong, it's not about showing something that makes the audience look stupid or you like some sort of trickster. All about astonishment and what message you can convey to your specs that actually hits some sort of emotion, some sort of feeling.

You need to open your eyes more, and I can tell you are young since you took his non bashing post and whined about it. He made a legitimate post about the art in magic.

I don't recal whinning about anything, they way he portyayed his oppinion seemed to come across in a rude way to the magician in the first video. Weather you care for the use of my language or not I don't recall "bashing anyone" I am giving my opinin and that is all I can say. Despite the fact that many magicians may not have reached "that point" or not doesn't mean that their word should be taken any less worth than any others. I don't think that anyone can tell how another person performs or portyays their magic through a post on a website. So this "point" your talking about could mean any number of things weather it be on the persons performance or by their presentation, or by their conection with the spectator it doesn't matter, this interpretation is bassed on another magicians perspective on another which is useless. How on earth do you have any idea of the "maturity" of my magic, despite the way I talk does not give any idication of my level of magic. If that is the way that you want to adress the situation than fine by me. I wanted to have a reasonable conversation about this considering this topic is a widely spread and conversed about one. I am sorry if anyone took my post as "bashing", there are going to be a lot of opinions in the world and having a dispute of each one isn't going to solve anything. I gave my opinion and I will stick by that. If you have any other questions or concerns, or anything you feel like saying, feel free to pm me as I do not want our argument taking up space on an interesting topic.

 

[canadamagic]

This is the last thing and then I am done. Apperently this ia very controversial subject. Personally I think that magic is art, another person may think it is not and may spread their opinion about it more so than another and visa-versa. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and thoughts on the subject and none should be taken up more so than another, everyone may be at another stage in their progression in their magic carrear (if chosen), but with each level comes an opinion and good reason for each. I think that striking down another for that is a "low blow" as each person should be treated equally, as we can agree, so their opinion should not be discriminated either.

I think that magic is an art, if others do not, than I am alright with that.

 

[Infernvs]

Magic is a performance art... like acting with a specific goal. Just imagine each magic effect as a mini play that is choreographed to decieve the audience. Many can perform the same play, but it takes someone great to make it up to its full potential.

Nobody would say that acting isn't an art... even if confronted with Rob Schneider and David Ducovney.

 

[Sherlock]

The reason I'm basing your intellect on the magic is because the post you wrote before and the one you wrote now. It is not based on the language or anything like that, I just couldn't understand your sentence structure and made it hard to understand the points you were trying to make.

I have no problem with many opinions, and the one you made wasn't an opinion, it was basically a accusation. Another quick little gripe is that apparently magicians have no real perspective over another magicians performance. Well, that's just dumb and incorrect because magicians ask for other magicians advice on effects, presentation, and performances. Why would any magician buy a book on performance and presentation when it's obvious it's that person opinion on it and their judgement on the subject? Exactly.

Now to talk about why the video is not art. What in it makes it memorable, real, something that puts the mind on standstill? I am unfortunately getting a bit annoyed at you right now and your defense on the video.

If you can honestly tell me that the vid about 5 speed is anything close to art in magic then you need to stop everything and reflect your standards because they are low. Do I believe he was trying to make a memorable performance, no. He is in the line of many tricksters that shows something that looks cool, and has no real presentation.

Don't try to defend him when he obviously has no performance and knows he doesn't. I can judge whoever I please to judge, especially if someone posts it so they can be open to judgment. I just hope you are lying to yourself more than anything, because that 5 speed video was just bad. He pattered about what he was doing, I know what he's doing because I have two functioning eyes. He doesn't need to tell me what my eyes can see, which is the problem with many "magicians."

Probably going to post a thread about this since you aggravated me unintentionally of course. Magic can be art in the right hands, but people just saying that because somebody performs some tricks is not correct.

Don't feel obligated to post a reply to this, my opinion of you will most likely not change and that's fine. Not everybody will like each other for many reasons, it's just bad it has to be these reason.

 

[canadamagic]

Well then I will attempt to make it clear.

I think that magic is an art, simple.

The magician in the first video did have an aweful performance, but it is not based soley on the performance weather magic is an art or not. If you had Chris Kenner perform the effect than sureley you would say that it is art. But because the magician performed it poorley it becomes less if not an art at all?

If you are going to say that the magician himself was performing a work of art than I would have to agree no, he was not. But his performance cannot base if magic is an art or not. It appears that magic is being based on performance which I can almost agree with. But personaly I am taking the stand point by the effect itself to judge weather I will consider it art. Some effects I will consider art, but some I will not.

I am sorry if I have aggrivated you , it was not my intentions to do so. My "gripe"earlier was not to slander another magician, I thought that presenting the first video to reason against magic being and art, could have been shown differently. To me it came across rude, that is what I was commenting on earlier. If you have anything else please pm me so as not to take up thread space.

 

[visualartist]

Well then I will attempt to make it clear.

I think that magic is an art, simple.

The magician in the first video did have an aweful performance, but it is not based soley on the performance weather magic is an art or not. If you had Chris Kenner perform the effect than sureley you would say that it is art. But because the magician performed it poorley it becomes less if not an art at all?

If you are going to say that the magician himself was performing a work of art than I would have to agree no, he was not. But his performance cannot base if magic is an art or not. It appears that magic is being based on performance which I can almost agree with. But personaly I am taking the stand point by the effect itself to judge weather I will consider it art. Some effects I will consider art, but some I will not.

I am sorry if I have aggrivated you , it was not my intentions to do so. My "gripe"earlier was not to slander another magician, I thought that presenting the first video to reason against magic being and art, could have been shown differently. To me it came across rude, that is what I was commenting on earlier. If you have anything else please pm me so as not to take up thread space.

You dont have to THINK its an art. It is. Your right.
Its a world recognized performance art.
Its imprinted in text that its an art. Textbook definition.
How can people argue with that?

 

[Mr.MadMan]

Magic can be an art in the hands of the willing.
If you take magic lightly it is not art, if you get fired up on entertaining, love to practice, love to work on stuff and with people and pay attention to the innermeaning of the effects then it is art.

But the sentence, Advancing the art, was said here.
I have written an essay on "How can we advance the art if we can't advance ourselves", read that. You will get some stuff worked out...

Mikk.

 

[KeoSilver]

Magic is a craft and is viewed as art by other magicians.

To laymen it is a performance art, on rare occasions.
"Life is a cabarat" So street magic people stop doing magic and start performing ART.

 

[Sherlock]

Your post is a bit contradicting, but you have a similar understanding. I think magic as a art is only from a select few who actually do it correctly. However just to say any magic done is a art is something I disagree with, I realize not all art is or has to be good. Something shown as a trick though is in no way magic, but just a trick.

 

[Nickerus]

It's only an art if you use someone else's trick, script, voice, clothes, attitude, and optionally their underwear.

Oh wait...

Goethe once said, " Art is about what cannot be put into words."

I would compare it to another "art form" Painting. What makes a painter an artist? What does he do? He paints, in other words creates. And does he do the exact same painting as another artist. No.

 

[canadamagic]

Your post is a bit contradicting, but you have a similar understanding. I think magic as a art is only from a select few who actually do it correctly. However just to say any magic done is a art is something I disagree with, I realize not all art is or has to be good. Something shown as a trick though is in no way magic, but just a trick.

I understand now what you are saying and can agree with most of it. I think we both are moderately on the same track but are slightely different in opinion so if I may calrify?

Personally I consider magic as an art. The effects themselves are art though I do consider a few as tickery oposed to an actual artform, which I think we can agree on.

From what I have collected you think that magic is partially an artform if performed well and by the right people? I think thats it but if not feel free to let me know, I am just trying to figure whos opinion is what.

Again I am not trying to be offensive or rude but mearly trying to sort things out.

 

[James Smith]

Yea but not every magicains does that, only the good ones.

Technically not all paintings do that, you can't disregard something as an art simply because not all pieces aren't good.

When I watch David Copperfield perform Grandpa's Aces, it evokes an emotional reaction. When I watch a fellow teen magician perform Dream of Aces to Linkin' Park music on a webcam I almost fall asleep.

When I look at a piece such as the Mona Lisa, I stare in awe, when I look at dogs playing poker I think, "What the f***?"

None the less, people still consider bad pieces of art, art. So just because not all magic is good art, it doesn't mean no magic is art.

I'm not going to post a long winded intelectual reply. I will say this. Magic is a performance and performance is an art. Therefore Magic is a Performance art.

'snuff said.

Well said.

Magic is an art.
Not everyone who performs it is an artist.
Like drawing/painting/etc. Its art(duh). But if I get a few charcoal pencils and pastels,blah blah blah.And I like to doodle sometimes.Does not make me an artist. Even less so if I dont use art as a viable way to express myself or spark ideas in other people.Not an artist. I just use the tools.
Same for magic

Everyone who performs magic is an artist. Most of them are just crappy artists. Although you do bring up a good point about someone who just doodles. Does that make bad magicians hobbyists? I don't know, I'll have to think about it...

What my verdict comes down to is...I don't know. We try to evoke an emotional reaction so it is art, but we often don't succeed, so it isn't.

Let's try to think of things that are accepted as art:

Painting
Sculpting
Music
Poetry
Theatre

What do these things have in common? They all involve making something and entertaining people.

So that would make magic an art, but no laymen accept as an art. Why? because of the huge amount of bad magicians who can't entertain, they just show you a cool little puzzle. That brings us back to the argument of, "Good magic is art, bad magic isn't." Yet I've never seen a non-artist look at a bad painting or sculpture and say, "That's not art!" they just say "That's bad art!"

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Ha. I'm quite surprised that my vote was the only no.

Why Tumble!! Why would you say it's not!!!??

Well I'll tell you my adoring fans:

Art is a word used by companies to raise products above their actual level.

'Ooh, that's a pretty painting.'

'No, Jim. No. That there is a work of art.'

Well actually, Jim was correct. No matter how much that painting affects your emotions, it is still just that; a painting. Magic is magic, and no company is going to change that for me.

I'm not letting magic stoop to the level that is art. Magic is something in itself, and comparing it to art makes it as such.

 

[Sherlock]

So what's art then?

 

[tally-ho]

I think we should stop worrying about wether magic is or is not an artform.

 

[visualartist]

Ha. I'm quite surprised that my vote was the only no.

Why Tumble!! Why would you say it's not!!!??

Well I'll tell you my adoring fans:

Art is a word used by companies to raise products above their actual level.

'Ooh, that's a pretty painting.'

'No, Jim. No. That there is a work of art.'

Well actually, Jim was correct. No matter how much that painting affects your emotions, it is still just that; a painting. Magic is magic, and no company is going to change that for me.

I'm not letting magic stoop to the level that is art. Magic is something in itself, and comparing it to art makes it as such.

corporate america uses "art" as a tagline so I can buy the mona lisa?
Then why do artists donate paintings or lent them to museums?
What about theatre?

 

[Mental-State]

magic isnt art. people make it art. look at phones. they just did the job, that all people cared about but now they have become art cuz people design them in different and nice ways

 

[scarecrow1]

magic isnt art. people make it art. look at phones. they just did the job, that all people cared about but now they have become art cuz people design them in different and nice ways

Bing bing bing bing bing! Give the man a cigar!