New Idea for a 64 card deck
- Thread starter sprouts1115
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Opps, I might have created some confusion. It's a 60 card deck with 4 jokers = 64 cards. You normally would not play with the jokers, but jokers have been around for 150 years and it is time they get their own suit. The jokers will have the same rank as the Fool in the Tarot cards. Two of the jokers are posted above. Joker of Staffs - Chaotic Evil and the second is Joker of Cups - Lawful Good.
http://pinterest.com/sprouts1115/texasplayingcardscom/
http://pinterest.com/sprouts1115/texasplayingcardscom/
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Ahh you must be looking at the uncut sheet #2 which has an 8 x 7 images which are nothing but the Aces and Jokers. The problem I solve is I can load 56 cards + 8 cards (Aces and Jokers) into a box that holds 64 cards of Bee stock...
No, I'm not.
That's a problem that people have? That their box is too big for the deck?
I repeat, what problem does a 64-card deck solve? Why would I want this?
This sounds like something that wouldn't be useful whatsoever. If I were to add extra cards, I would use gaff cards that Ellusionist sells (every card is totally different). Now, if you were trying to make a new card game using 64 cards, maybe (and its a very iffy maybe) people would use them.
Steerpike - The way cards are today reminds me when I was in economic class in 9th grade. The teacher gave us a fictional $50,000 to invest in the stock market. I remember asking him why don't they sell stocks in dollars and cents not dollars and fractions. He said the stock market is based upon the Spanish currency of the doubloons and it has a base of 1/8 and it has always been that way. "It is what it is" I remember him saying that.
Same as playing cards today are based upon the French with the suits being (heart, diamond, club, spade) and the Ace being the highest card. History tells us 200 years ago the French made the Ace the highest card to snub their nose at the King. The Ace represents the common person. Cards have been around for 600 years. I would like to go back to where the King is the highest card and sense most of our games are based on 5 cards (Texas Hold'em, 5 card draw). I would like to see a real Royal (Kingly) Flush with 5 court cards not 3 court cards and 2 pips which we have today. Besides who doesn't want more face cards and everything is bigger in Texas. Basically, I'm making the Ace the lowest card and adding 2 face cards to seal the deal. It seems to be the simplest and best solution.
And you can adopt these cards to play any game. For example, Solitaire would basically be the same only harder to win. You start with the Jokers then Ace, 2, 3... King.
Same as playing cards today are based upon the French with the suits being (heart, diamond, club, spade) and the Ace being the highest card. History tells us 200 years ago the French made the Ace the highest card to snub their nose at the King. The Ace represents the common person. Cards have been around for 600 years. I would like to go back to where the King is the highest card and sense most of our games are based on 5 cards (Texas Hold'em, 5 card draw). I would like to see a real Royal (Kingly) Flush with 5 court cards not 3 court cards and 2 pips which we have today. Besides who doesn't want more face cards and everything is bigger in Texas. Basically, I'm making the Ace the lowest card and adding 2 face cards to seal the deal. It seems to be the simplest and best solution.
And you can adopt these cards to play any game. For example, Solitaire would basically be the same only harder to win. You start with the Jokers then Ace, 2, 3... King.
I don't, and I'm also not Texan.
It sounds to me like you have a solution that's looking for a problem. How do you know there's any demand for this? Who is the target market? You say that it's the simplest and best solution, but to what problem? I have never heard a living soul say that they would prefer it if the kind was of higher value than the ace all the time. I have not heard a single person ever say to me, "There aren't enough face cards!" I have never in my life heard even the most deranged poker enthusiast curse the French for changing the nature of the game back before any of us alive were even a twinkly in someone's eye.
You're basing this whole project on you. What you want. What you think is cool. Not on whether or not there is actually a market for this. Yes it's a small sample size, but it doesn't it tell you anything that you have yet to receive a positive response to this idea?
Steerpike - We need to go out and get a beer. The market is Texas-America first. Next, I would like to hit France. I would need to change the indices though to (R, D, E, C, V) to make it work. I don't expect you to like this deck; your stuck on 52. This reminds me, I found this website on Wilipedia once, wish I saved it. It showed the origin of "twenty-one" today it's now BlackJack. It had 40 card deck. Yes, 40 card decks were more popular than 52 card decks once. "Spanish baraja is an ancient deck that existed in Spain since between the 14th-16th century" Anyways, It didn't have 10's, 9's, and 8's. The Rank was (King,Queen,Deputy Sheriff, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, A) = 40 cards. The Ace could be 1 or 11. I imagine the Deputy Sheriff was 8 points, Queen = 9, King = 10. The ace is the lowest card the King is the highest. Knowing just these rules. What would you have if you had an Ace and a Queen? To me, this seems like a simple game and then they mucked it up with 8's, 9's, 10's and made every face card 10 points and now we call it BlackJack. Do you think think 52 cards will always be the standard just like typing in passwords. Do you think we will always type in a password to access something...
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Thanks for the offer for a beer and the history lesson is novel and all, but I still need an answer to my last two questions. Who is the target market for this? Are you absolutely certain that there is a demand for this? I can't really do anything for you unless you explain a few things.
And to answer your question, I don't even use cards that much anymore. At most, I used a marked deck for a few mental magic demonstrations. Or if I don't have one of those, I just use the key card principle. Most of the time I never use cards at all.
The only thing I truly like about a deck of 52 is how it mathematically syncs up with the calendar. Add together the values of every card in the deck, you get 365. Four suits, four seasons. Fifty-two cards, fifty-two weeks. Was this intentional? Who cares?! When you have the truth and you have a good story, you tell the good story. That's kind of the idea behind being a magician, really. Or any kind of artist for that matter.
And to answer your question, I don't even use cards that much anymore. At most, I used a marked deck for a few mental magic demonstrations. Or if I don't have one of those, I just use the key card principle. Most of the time I never use cards at all.
The only thing I truly like about a deck of 52 is how it mathematically syncs up with the calendar. Add together the values of every card in the deck, you get 365. Four suits, four seasons. Fifty-two cards, fifty-two weeks. Was this intentional? Who cares?! When you have the truth and you have a good story, you tell the good story. That's kind of the idea behind being a magician, really. Or any kind of artist for that matter.
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Well lets look at this objectively.
Who are the people who would want to use this deck? What is your target demographic?
1) Magicians
2) Gamblers
3) Collectors
Collectors aside, because lets face it they'll buy just about anything if it's unique and unusual enough that leaves us with Magicians and Gamblers who will be your prime target demographic.
Gamblers won't like the cards for a few reasons. The cards are non regulation so they won't be showing up in any casino or gambling tournament anytime soon, and also the additional two cards per suit completely screws up with the probability when calculating what cards could be in everyone's hands.
Magicians may be a more viable option for you to sell to but as a magician we'd have to overcome the spectators reactions to two foreign court cards that they've never seen before. Can you imagine asking someone to "pick a card and remember it" and if they've never seen a Bishop of Hearts before they could confuse it for something else. It would complicate the trick performance.
My best advice is to create your own card gambling game using this deck and market it as a stand alone game option. Sell it to toy stores or what not.
Who are the people who would want to use this deck? What is your target demographic?
1) Magicians
2) Gamblers
3) Collectors
Collectors aside, because lets face it they'll buy just about anything if it's unique and unusual enough that leaves us with Magicians and Gamblers who will be your prime target demographic.
Gamblers won't like the cards for a few reasons. The cards are non regulation so they won't be showing up in any casino or gambling tournament anytime soon, and also the additional two cards per suit completely screws up with the probability when calculating what cards could be in everyone's hands.
Magicians may be a more viable option for you to sell to but as a magician we'd have to overcome the spectators reactions to two foreign court cards that they've never seen before. Can you imagine asking someone to "pick a card and remember it" and if they've never seen a Bishop of Hearts before they could confuse it for something else. It would complicate the trick performance.
My best advice is to create your own card gambling game using this deck and market it as a stand alone game option. Sell it to toy stores or what not.
William Draven - I think Steerpike was trying to steer me in that direction. Collectors are a given, but I'm trying to make the first run the best deck I can for collectors.
I'm curious if you had to flourish 64 cards would you want Embossed or Smooth? I'm for the gamblers also. I tried to make the cards more visual at a distance. I'm not the first; these guys were. check this out : http://www.wopc.co.uk/delarue/pigmy.html
and I'm for the Magicians probably the least. I Don't have any gaff cards, but I do have 4 Jokers and if you look closely, the King of Hearts could be a gaff card. Maybe.
I'm curious if you had to flourish 64 cards would you want Embossed or Smooth? I'm for the gamblers also. I tried to make the cards more visual at a distance. I'm not the first; these guys were. check this out : http://www.wopc.co.uk/delarue/pigmy.htmland I'm for the Magicians probably the least. I Don't have any gaff cards, but I do have 4 Jokers and if you look closely, the King of Hearts could be a gaff card. Maybe.
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Basically, yeah. A lot of businesses and products die on the vine because the dude running the operation never thought about the marketing. So let's break this down.
You're looking at collectors and gamblers. Gamblers are a long shot because this deck will in all likelihood never make it to competitive play. Games enthusiasts are a safer bet. But let's dig down further. Imagine the demographics. Is there a specific race or gender that would be more interested in this based on market research? What about economic class? Marital status? Family? Internet access? Demographics describe all the nuts and bolts quantifiable aspects of a market.
Now let's talk psychographics. I encourage you to Google this one as I really don't have time to get deep into this. In a nutshell, psychographics are mental archetypes for marketing purposes and reflect core desires of a potential customer/client. Some people are more concerned with status, others with enlightenment, still others with escapism. These are independent of demographics for the most part. You're unlikely to see a guy making $300k a year who fits the Struggler type, but rich or poor has no effect on the Aspirer type outside of what they actually have the means to buy.
Do some Google searches on all this, then come back and describe to me using this data your ideal customer for this product. It's a little tedious, but I promise you this step is way, way more important than even just having the product itself. Ideas are cheap. Anyone can come up with ideas, like in the end of this sentence where I suggest the idea of Bronn and Tyrion from Game of Thrones being given a spin-off show in which they're time-traveling buddy cops. If on the other hand you have the market data around which to formulate an actual plan, you're already ahead of the curve.
Steerpike - I think we are getting off the subject with "Game of Thrones" I was impressed when Peter Jackson walk in the studio and said "Now, we are going to make 3 movies at once. Nobody has ever done this but, ..." We really need to get a beer. I don't really think it's a long shot with gamblers and collectors. You just take out the Jokers, Bishops, and Cavaliers and you have a competitive deck if you want. Simple. I just hope I can make a deck that is more functional for gamblers and they see it.
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But gamblers would only find it 'functional' if there is some game which uses these cards. Invent a game, and maybe you have something.
The difference here is that Peter Jackson has a crap load of experience making movies. How much experience do you have making / marketing a deck of cards?
Not saying don't do it. Not saying you can't do it. Just as long as you think things through, and try to anticipate problems before you get them you'll have a better shot at it.
I needed an example of how easy it is to come up with ideas. Although ever since I typed that, it's all my brain wants to think about now so it may have backfired.
Inspirational quotes are nice, but... You know Andrew Mayne? He wrote a book about no-budget filmmaking once. In it, he had a really good quote: "It's not enough to wear the mantle of Galileo. You have to be right."
When Peter Jackson persuaded Paramount to produce the Lord of the Rings trilogy, he was already an established, accomplished director and film mogul. He had already worked with some important people and proven himself as a reliable creator of genre films. He directed his first feature-length movie in 1987. This guy had the goods. And even then, it was a really difficult pitch and the film came together because Peter assembled a cast and crew so utterly fantastic at their jobs that the trilogy was lightning in a bottle. It's going to be at least a generation before this feat can be recreated.
So yes, Peter's success is certainly cause for celebration, but let's not forget the big picture.
See, the first three words in that sentence are exactly why I'm telling you to do the research on the demographics and psychographics. And here's one more thing. There's a clear difference between features, benefits, and results. And the hierarchy looks like this:
A bad marketer/salesmen sells features. "This deck has 64 cards."
A good marketer/salesmen sells benefits. "You're looking for a new game experience? This is a 64-card deck that comes with instructions for several unique new card games for up to 4 players."
A great marketer sells results. "Playing these new games offers up new challenges at the game table and offers your group of friends a bonding experience more unique than you can find anywhere else."
See the difference? Results focus on emotions, which is what most people use to make their buying/money decisions. This is why you need all that info above. Once you have the data, you then know what results to sell people on.
