theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
New York, New York
Los Angeles, California
Our team is composed of the best of the best minds in the magic industry - from performers to creators and consultants.
From mind-blowing illusions to the world's finest playing cards, theory11 values quality over quantity.
theory11 artists are the foremost experts in the conjuring arts - from new upcoming talent to magic's greatest historians.
We produce world-class shows and live-events. Learn more about The Magician at The NoMad and what we can do for you!
Our team has consulted on countless projects relating to magic on stage and on screen around the world.
Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Suux88, Apr 11, 2009.
I also saw Shawn perform this effect and it was amazing. As you said fully examinable. Good luck!
wow dude! wut a great effect. i have seen this before but i luv your touch of adding it being in the right spot in new deck order. sorry this isnt a comment about your marketing problem. It sounds like you are doing the right thing. good luck and keep this forum posted cus i'd sure purchase it from you if you do market it.
Very nice. Would've liked to see some better patter but it's in its beginning stages.
Keep it up!
still in the workings still talking to dealers still dealing with politics
I use this as a card to wallet effect actually, but instead of wallet an Sealed Deck
I am totally jealous. Great job man.
The other side of the story ...
Just to clarify I am Shawn Farquhar and I have replied to each and everyone of SUUX88's PM's on the Cafe and he in turn tried to get me to explain my method. Chris's (SUXX88) method is the one published by Greg Gleason on his two DVD set. Chris knows this and has said so in PM's to me. He also claimed on the Cafe that he knows my method but in private apologized for writing that as he does not know.
Please don't encourage this individual. He used an alias to contact Greg Gleason to try to trick him into something he refers to as "a trap" in his PM's to me.
I have attached the PM's for all to see:
Posted: Fri, Apr 10th, 2009 - 5:49 PM (EST)
I know you have performed a signed card in sealed Deck and wondering if you would check out my video
to tell me if the method is original or not, or if it's yours.
I have yet to see your performance and only based it off of Cyril's performance
Posted: Sun, Apr 12th, 2009 - 2:05 AM (EST)
I watched your video. First it isn't Cyril's trick. Cryil's effect is mine and he and most of the magic world is aware of this. I have presented it and won multiple awards at FISM, IBM and SAM using this effect and technique.
That said, I think you may in fact be the closest if not dead on to my method. All the moves seem the same and the gimmick to cover is identical to mine. If it is the same I would not be able to tell unless I saw the case a little slower in the presentation.
I am curious why you spent so much time to recreate something that already exists, when you obviously have the talent and ability to create something of your own? I look forward to seeing whatever you create next using your own imagination.
My effect, Signed, Sealed and Delivered will be released following FISM 2009 in China this Summer.
Thanks for writing and I wish you all the best with your next endeavour.
Posted: Sun, Apr 12th, 2009 - 2:22 AM (EST)
For mine, all I will say is rubber cement
Would you kindly link or send me a video of your performance as I have yet to get an opportunity to witness.
Posted: Sun, Apr 12th, 2009 - 6:54 PM (EST)
I took the time to search and if my method is as yours, it is apparently not new and you can find at this DVD "Greg Gleason - Theater Close Up vol2".
Posted: Sun, Apr 12th, 2009 - 8:31 PM (EST)
Greg and I are great friends and have been for a long time. His method is good but mine is better. In fact the video for the DVD was shot by my friend, Todd Noel and it was filmed in the Stardust theatre ... where I am sitting right now.
Greg's routine did not use the cover card idea which is a new use for Paul Harris's gimmick. His takes place in a paper bag and the rotuine deals with two different colored decks. His loading of the card is great but mine is different.
Oh and although the idea of having a sealed deck may have been an old idea, before me it was never done with the card returning the correct position, let alone being able to give the box out at the end. Mine by the way can have the box examined to the hilt following the routine and nothing will be found. The rubber cement was an early version I used but it can be done better.
I saw the thread and the discussion and just want you to understand my position. I don't believe I have to market or publish my method to still hold the rights to the routine I created. An example of this would Michael Ammar's card in lemon, an effect he performs regularly but has never published or sold. It's his, anyone who re-created it would be infringing on his rights and I would consider unethical if they were to publish, market or even give away the idea. But then that's just my opinion.
I have spent my life as a magician and want to be a magician others respect until I die and for that reason this is how I operate.
Sorry I don't share my card routine video with others. The performance is available however on a new DVD put out by International Magic of London from my championship performance in December in the UK.
Posted: Wed, Apr 15th, 2009 - 11:33 PM (EST)
Listen, I think we got off on the wrong foot with this Tim business etc. and I think we should be helping each other out magician to magician.
Nonetheless I want to inform you I have a couple of contract offers... but I am still sensitive to how sour things have become.
I would like you to convince me my method is in fact inferior to yours, and if so I will drop out pursuing this effect entirely and personally pave the golden road for you.
The improvement is most likely re-stickable spray adhesive from a can, which will sustain it's sticking power months after application w/o surface contact.
That's besides the point..
If you want to convince me by discussing methods, feel free to begin with how examinable your cellophane actually is.
Posted: Thu, Apr 16th, 2009 - 2:18 AM (EST)
I will not discuss my method with you. I have no interest in discussing this further with you. It is my understanding that you have contacted Greg Gleason in a devious manner and that in itself speaks volumes. I think if you decide to pursue this endeavor it will most likely bite you in the arse, but that is your prerogative.
In the thread you wrote you knew my improvements which is not true. In fact you wrote: "I know what Shawn's improvement is, but it's messier and harder to work with, so it's hardly an improvement if any." This is an out right lie and you know it. Where do you get off writing something like that? I hope you understand that whatever you write on this forum will be here forever. It never gets erased and will last for your lifetime. If you want a future in magic, as much as I do, you may want to chose what you post more carefully.
Tim Jahn did not chose so wisely and look at what he happened to him and his existence in the magic community and the Café. I will write this again so you understand my position.
I congratulate you on reconstructing and effect with a possible solution. In fact the solution you created is most likely, if not definitely Greg Gleason's which is already published and available on the market. The only addition you have is the PH gimmick which is part of my version, a version presented by Cyril ... so you have brought nothing new to the table and should be happy you figured out a method and leave it at that. Unfortunately in the process you hurt Tim Jahn who for some reason tired to defend your absurd claim of ownership.
As for you question about how examinable the cellophane actually is, all I can tell you is that at the end of my routine I give the box, still with cellophane on the bottom portion of the case, to a spectator to keep as a souvenir and nothing, and I mean nothing will ever let them know how it was accomplished. I do this in every presentation of the routine and no one has ever reconstructed my version.
This should be our final discussion on this matter. I would however request that you correct the statement you made about knowing my method on the thread. If you don't I will be forced to purse the matter in a more vigorous manner than I have to this date. I understand how easy it is to get all caught up in the situation but facts are facts and you you don't know my method and as such should make the other members of the Café aware of the truth.
I look forward to your next post on the thread in the foreseeable future.
Posted: Thu, Apr 16th, 2009 - 2:36 AM (EST)
Doesn't matter, I'll apologize for saying I knew your method, but that thread just ****ed me off so much, and some comments you made about the slit, and publicizing PM's
FYI, Greg was a ******, he screened my e-mails for several days, in that sense you are much more professional than he will ever be. I used an alias making it obvious for him to figure out, too bad he was too stupid and fell for the trap and made himself look stupid and then he got all defensive.
You don't have to worry about seeing me ever again
I don't care about my rep as a magician, I am not a creator nor do I try to be, I just got lucky and my studies as a med student far out way magic by a long shot
I hope to witness your routine one day
Posted: Fri, Apr 17th, 2009 - 3:59 AM (EST)
So when will you be posting the correction in the thread? I thought you might have done that today.
Just for clarification, I don;t think Greg screens his email, he just lives on a cruise ship and internet and email is expensive and rare. I sometimes take me days or weeks to reply when I am on tour. He said you sent him an email asking for rates and availability for May, like you were a prospective client. If that's the case you really stepped over that line ...
Well, I will wait another day to see your posting correcting your earlier post.
Well I think that's case closed then.
Wow, well everything just got a bit awkward and seems that one party is going down the drain rather quickly. However, private messages are to remain private and posting them when they were directed solely at you is disrespect in my eyes. You could have simply told your side of the story and your reputation would have backed up your story more than all of the attachments you have sent, that's why you build up a good rep so people will believe you.
Sometimes, everything just needs to be out in the open, and that is the best way to remain accountable and professional. Crooked business happens behind closed doors. If Shawn lays it out on the table, then it shows his transparency in the matter.
Thanks for the update Shawn.
He went a bit direct and fast in this matter and could have possibly explained his side and posted the private messages a bit later. However circumstances for Shawn don't seem to permit it so stuff happens and shady business happened.
Actually I believe the is more to this story over at the cafe. It's all in the open.
Just to be clear ...
I would like to have done nothing more than to be subtle in my post which you will see I tried on the Magic Cafe. It didn't work so this time I thought it best just to start with everything in the open. PM's are private messages between two people, but when lies can be hid behind them, that when they should be made public. SUUX88 already posted on this forum that I was not replying to his PM's ... that in my opinion makes them fair game to demonstrate he was lying.
I have hundreds of PM's from respectable individuals and they will always remain private and personal. I hope you and the other here at Theory11 understand why I did things the way I did ...
I lost my respect for Shawn Farquhar when he made private msgs public
and has yet to apologzie for that.
I said Shawn didn't reply, because he dodged my PM for several days. Over at the cafe you can tell when someone opens it, and he replied 2 days after he first opened it, the interval when I posted Shawn doesn't answer PM's, sometime I posted here before.
I lost my respect for Greg Gleason, after he screened several e-mails for several days (mind you very polite, just to discuss methods), but was obviously checking.
Will SUXX88 ever really understand?
SUXX88 you never had any respect for me. That is clear by the way you have approached this entire experience. I do have an email and a website (which also lists my email) but you never tried to contact me directly. Odd.
I work around the globe and do not always have access to the internet. Interestingly enough I checked my records and I replied two days following you first PM, which gave me just enough time to view your youtube video and compose my reply. Yes, I took time to reply to ensure I was clear on my point of view and to also encourage what I though was a young aspiring magician. That's why I wrote:
" I am curious why you spent so much time to recreate something that already exists, when you obviously have the talent and ability to create something of your own? I look forward to seeing whatever you create next using your own imagination."
Apparently I was wrong as your last PM to me said:
"I don't care about my rep as a magician, I am not a creator nor do I try to be, I just got lucky and my studies as a med student far out way magic by a long shot."
Well I hope you will have more ethic's and respect for the medical profession when you graduate.
To reply once again to the issue of publicly revealing PM's. I believe PM's were intended to be private messages between to members who wish to discuss something from the forum in a more private method. There is no reason why these messages can't or shouldn't be made public when they are necessary to illustrate the character of a member who is slandering another in the public forum.
I will not apologize to anyone for defending myself against someone who has no regard for myself, my friends or any other member of this forum for that matter.
** Just out of curiosity does anyone even know the real name of SUXX88? He calls himself Chris but has also addressed emails with the initials J.E. ... I guess we will all know when he releases "his effect" ...
I think I recall somebody telling me that Darwin Ortiz also has a version of the signed card in a sealed box as well. Tho the method and presentation may be completely different. I think it was either in Card Shark or his other book, I can't really remember which.
This is very wrong. I have watched your demo and I have seen Shawn's effect. They are the same effect using the same gimmick. The right thing to do is to accept the fact that you independently created this effect, and understand that it belongs to someone else, and not to market it.
Also, I really cannot stand it when people say that something needs to be published before claiming originality. First of all, you heard that from Stephane Jardonette, on the Magic Cafe. And the reason why Stephane says that is because he is a dealer. DEALERS believe that it is rule of thumb, that an effect must be published before it is rightfully theirs. The reason why they choose to use those ethics are so they do not have to constantly remove items from their shelf once someone releases an effect. You know what I mean? That is a total cop out.
Most magicians release demos prior to releasing the effect. They do this to hype up magicians into buying their effects, and also use it as a marketing tool to boost pre-order's. As is the case with your demo. You released your demo to youtube before releasing your effect.
Having said that... If I watch your demo, of "your" card to sealed case (Which has not been released yet) and I figure out the method, and I decide to quickly release it before you.. Does that mean your out of luck?? Does that mean you don;t have the right to stand up and say "Hey, I released that demo a month ago and was planning on marketing that"
And before you say.. "How can I be sure that we came up with the same methods" Let's just say that I have figured out your method, verbatim.
Bottom line.. This IS Shawn's effect. He has been performing it for years. He has won SEVERAL competitions with this.. IBM, & FISM just to name a few. There is video documentation of him performing this routine in competitions. As well as TONS of magicians across the world who have seen him perform this at his lectures.
The right thing to do is to scrap your idea, and simply create a new idea that has not already been done. It is ethically the right thing to do. You seem like a reasonable, and very nice guy. And if you happened to come up with the exact effect that Shawn Farqhuar came up with almost a decade ago, then that tells me you really have a great talent for creating. Do what's right man, seriously. S
Shawn has been ripped off SO many times. I don't blame the guy for getting upset.
Take care, and really, really think about how you want to be perceived in the world of magic. Do you want to be the new guy who just released the hottest effect in magic? Or do you want to be the new guy that re-invented a effect that was created by Shawn Farqhuar....
Best of luck to you.
A few people have pointed me to this thread and it's made for interesting reading!
"Shawn has been ripped off SO many times. I don't blame the guy for getting upset".
Oh, the irony in that comment Aaron...
You may also like to check out this video response:
This. This. This. I've read the thread but I do think that this is completely selfish.
Ok...I literally cannot keep quit about this line. That is BS of the highest level. Just because he figured out a method that the rest of us are too stupid to come up with, Shawn gets mad that someone figured out a method to a trick with the same plot. Now you're telling him to just completely forget that he came up with a working method for this amazing effect. Now I cannot say that I know how others around here feel about this...but I can speak for myself when I say that this is completely wrong and is dampening this man's creativity. I understand Shawn's anger somewhat. But you saying he needs to think of how he will be seen in the magic community's eyes is like black mail. "So um, hey, if you release this, everyone will hate you because that guy over that invented it but won't release it so we're gonna just black ball you here." No. Just no.
Hey guys I would like to chime in a bit and ask why do you feel Shawn has been ripped off so many times? Why do you feel the concept of a signed card in a sealed deck is his effect? I have the Pandora System which is a completley different method than Shawns and has its benefits over other methods does that mean I ripped Shawn off?
Too many coin in bottles but different methods maybe we need to steer this topic in another direction and give credit to self invention and contribution.
Just my two cents,