Public Libraries?

Apr 5, 2009
874
1
29
Illinois
hey guys, i have a ethics question

public libraries, where do they come into play with exposure?

heres how this came up with me,

i've been buying up magic like a chimp does bananas, but i dont feel i'm getting ahead of myself material wise, i feel i'm staying quite solid there.

but the issue that came up was i was asking my Mom if i could use her credit card and i'd pay her cash. she thinks i'm spending too much. so we had a mini fight. Dad got involved and we started crunching numbers. i feel i have enough stuff, for me to buy strong magic, and then be done buying things for a long time.

i have plenty of material to practice perfect and implement. but i need to strengthen my presentation, performance, patter and all that stuff. and i believe that strong magic could strengthen me in that category.

and after alot of back and forth debate. mom told me to search the libraries catalog, i did. they didnt have it. so she told me to ask the school librarian to order it or something like that.

i seem to remember a topic like this beginning to surface in another thread about exposure. and i looked that thread up. wasnt much to be learned.

so i ask the question now, is it ethically OK for me to have my school (or public) library order strong magic? i dont know if they will order it if i ask them to or not, but if i ask they probably will order it.
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
I have found magic videos, and books at the library...and I think ethically speaking, it is your job to never return them.
 
Apr 5, 2009
874
1
29
Illinois
see but thats the meat of the question. or at least the white meat,
(theres still some dark meat)

is it ok for me to ask for it to be ordered?

and back to the keeping it thing, thats just theft. and, i think theft is worse than exposure,

but the library would eventually send me a bill. and that bill might be less than the purchase price of 34 dollars.

see but now that i know that. if i do that. and then i do pay them, then i've basically cheated them. and thats just as wrong.
 
Mar 2, 2008
412
0
At the libery ive seen couple of ellusionist videos - crash course 1, revolution coin vanish and king rising levitation. Its weird because they have the "not for rental" Thing on them.
 
Nov 23, 2009
6
0
It's doubtful that the library will be able to order you in a copy of Strong Magic. Most school and public libraries order from specialised library suppliers who supply books to the trade, and these companies simply wouldn't stock Strong Magic.

If you can find a library that does hold a copy of Strong Magic your local public library may be able to get you a copy via what is known as an Inter Library Loan.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I have found magic videos, and books at the library...and I think ethically speaking, it is your job to never return them.

You're ****ting me.

At the libery ive seen couple of ellusionist videos - crash course 1, revolution coin vanish and king rising levitation. Its weird because they have the "not for rental" Thing on them.

In such cases, the library has in-house media. Basically small TVs with DVD players. The item is considered too valuable to leave the premises, so they provide you with the means to view it right there.
 
May 3, 2008
858
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Hmm...that's interesting. I would say it's ethical in the way that they're books as well as al other books too. But at the same time it's basically exposing magic for free. And regular books don't do that.

It's a tricky one.
 
Apr 5, 2009
874
1
29
Illinois
"It's a tricky one."

oh yeah, a very tricky one. thats why i asked for help

heres something else to consider;

strong magic contains zero tricks.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
It's a tricky one.

No, it's really not. The magician and publisher gave their consent for the library to put the book on the shelves. By that alone, the issue is closed. Anyone who says differently is suffering from early stages of kvlt kiddie syndrome and their face has an appointment with my pimp hand.

so far hes the only one to take a real solid stand

Except for me. If it's in the library, it belongs there. Don't steal it because it's not your ****ing place to decide that.
 
Feb 27, 2008
2,342
1
33
Grand prairie TX
strong magic contains zero tricks.

You dont buy strong magic for tricks though.
Its not about tricks.
But why make the school,tax payers or whoever spends the money but it for you or anyone interested? That does sound like cheating to get out of buying the thing yourself.
But heck,if I was short on cash(being a college student I am) I would probably do it too.
I have it though so im good.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Apr 5, 2009
874
1
29
Illinois
No, it's really not. The magician and publisher gave their consent for the library to put the book on the shelves. By that alone, the issue is closed. Anyone who says differently is suffering from early stages of kvlt kiddie syndrome and their face has an appointment with my pimp hand.

see the author and publisher giving consent thing was all i really needed to hear.
my fears are lifted, and i'm more than comfortable asking the library to look for it.
 
Sep 30, 2009
272
0
50
Elkhart, IN
My thought on exposure...if "laymen" really wanted to know "how" the tricks are done they could research just as we do.

They all know that there is "something" tricky about what we do and it's fun for them to be fooled...
 
Apr 5, 2009
874
1
29
Illinois
You dont buy strong magic for tricks though.
Its not about tricks.
i know that. that was another thing, theres no exposure of actual sleights, etc. in it.


But why make the school,tax payers or whoever spends the money but it for you or anyone interested? That does sound like cheating to get out of buying the thing yourself.

no thats how it works, thats a librarians main job
(i think) to listen to patrons so that they can get a better inventory of books for their shelves.

the cheating thing was if i kept it.
 
Feb 27, 2008
2,342
1
33
Grand prairie TX
i know that. that was another thing, theres no exposure of actual sleights, etc. in it.




no thats how it works, thats a librarians main job
(i think) to listen to patrons so that they can get a better inventory of books for their shelves.

the cheating thing was if i kept it.

ok,ok. Gotcha.
Eh,go for it. Its strong magic. Not tricks or methods
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
Haha, yeah dudes, as for saying "KEEP THE BOOK" that is a joke!

I won't lie, I have "borrowed" without intent to return and without the knowledge of the Librarian when I was young and starting magic...and I have heard that story from many greats. Stating, the book was so good I felt obligated not to let others see it. This was more about them stealing a good book...because back then you could get good books on magic at the Library, a bit harder now. However, I am NOT advocating you steal - actually, today, it would be much harder. When I was young, they didn't have security measures like those things that beep...

Anyhow - it isn't exposure. Here is the thing bro - those books you buy...yeah, they are available for everyone. ANYONE, can go to a magic shop or online and buy those books.

PAYING for something, or not, isn't what makes it exposure, that is an ethics issue, what makes it exposure is the intent to reveal the effects to those that don't want to perform them - this is the concern with Youtube...not to mention the amount of false information people learn.

The Library paid for those books..well, someone did...I accidently typed die for did (as in died) and realized that could be a way the libary got the books too...anyhow, few are going to go looking for those books to see how stuff is done.

You are right, not everyone can afford all the books in magic...and you got to start somewhere. Don't steal the book...unless you find out it is rare or one bad ass book! Again, telling the truth...if I found a magic shop book, like "Unseen Forces" - that book is not making it back...as it is TOO high end for your average magic enthusist at a Library.

Which brings me to my last point...what are you really going to find at the Library? I found some Sankey and Ammar videos on VHS...yeah, VHS...and this wasn't years ago, it was like last year, so you can imagine how valuable those are to most? VHS! I also found a few Bobo books, but for the most part you will find your standard Chapter books....if you are really lucky you will get Josh Jay's new book!

In the end - it is a non-issue...and yeah, again, don't steal - that was a JOKE...sort of.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
no thats how it works, thats a librarians main job
(i think) to listen to patrons so that they can get a better inventory of books for their shelves.

the cheating thing was if i kept it.

Yeah, but what you're looking for is pretty niche. Honestly, it's a book you could just wait to possess.

Here's my suggestion. You're already ordering what is scientifically known as a ****-ton of material. Learn the basics, then perform. Get some actual experience under your belt. Learning performance theory will make much more sense once you have that context. That's how building a skill works.
 
Apr 5, 2009
874
1
29
Illinois
so steerpike, do you recommend that i go out and perform for money, at restaurants and on the streets, and not just at high school before i even attempt to read strong magic?
 
Mar 19, 2008
396
1
My place!
when i started magic i learnt really complex stuff. i could perform it, but i realized i got just if not more reaction from simple stuff. now i hand tailor all my routines for my own style and im a better magician because of it
 
Jul 13, 2009
1,372
0
33
so steerpike, do you recommend that i go out and perform for money, at restaurants and on the streets, and not just at high school before i even attempt to read strong magic?

I know you asked steerpike this question but just wanted to add two more cents to the information pool that has been given to you.

You don't need "Strong magic" to perform magic for money. Personally most of the things in Strong Magic I learned from actually doing. The book only confirmed and added some theories that I came to a conclusion of on my own from just performing. Maybe purchase it in a year or two of performing, it was fun to read something and totally understand what Darwin Ortiz is talking about.
 
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