S.W.E Shift

Jun 20, 2008
50
0
Belchertown, MA
Hello,
I have a copy of the expert at the card table and i am trying to learn the SWE shift but cant quite figure out what is going on from the wording of the book. Can anyone help me out in understanding this sleight?

Thanks
 
Aug 20, 2008
60
1
Chris Kenner has 1-on-1 on S.W.E. Shift in this site .
Look it up .

Or tell us what part you can't get .


-Motas
 
Jun 20, 2008
50
0
Belchertown, MA
Ok well i have the first phase grip down, but when it says "raise the right thumb to the edge of the side, draw back the to packet in and down with the left thumb and little finger"... when i get to this part and on, i am confused on the description. If there is any way someone can help me with the rest of this shift by video or message that would be great. and if it helps at all i know the mechanics of chris kenners shifty as well.
 
May 2, 2010
207
1
34
New York, New York
Hello,
I have a copy of the expert at the card table and i am trying to learn the SWE shift but cant quite figure out what is going on from the wording of the book. Can anyone help me out in understanding this sleight?

Thanks
When I started the SWE shift I had problems from the get. It feels Unnatural to me for some reason.

anyways motas is right there is a 1 on 1 of it on the site. Also one of our memebers Unknownmagician has his vid on the site just go back a page or 2 and you will find his post. He does are real good one and studies Erdnase quite often if I remember correctly. Prob if he has the time he could help you.

Mike
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,736
2,851
Holy schnikes that's fast.

I've just starting fiddling with this move as well, but I think it's not time for me to devote a lot of energy to it. I'm working on other stuff for now.
 
Feb 13, 2009
15
0
It's always gotta be something with the armchairs. My god he was doing it at chest level I dont think it matters if he's sitting or standing.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,736
2,851
Granted, I've been sampling a new brand of rum so I'm just a bit fuzzy tonight, but Prae is far more than an 'armchair' magician as I understand it. And he's mostly right. The S.W.E. Shift is designed to be indetectable at the card table. Therefore, standing up removes it from the context for which it was intended. I don't think that makes it useless, but he has a point. The move was intended to be used sitting at a table.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,434
6
Sydney, Australia
It's always gotta be something with the armchairs. My god he was doing it at chest level I dont think it matters if he's sitting or standing.

Thanks, ChristopherT.

wickd_waze, I like that you're making assumptions about me. On what do you base those assumptions? Was I incorrect with my comment?

My point is this. It doesn't matter whether it's done at chest level or not. Standing, at chest level, the SWE Shift is a terrible control to use in practice. If you're going to use a shift in the context of stand up performances, use a classic pass, a riffle pass, a spread pass, Draun's Midnight Shift (my preferred method), etc. Why? Because, as I mentioned, the SWE Shift was designed to be a shift performable at a table, where most shifts are not (see Aaron Fisher's blog post regarding passes sitting down).

However, if you're going to be performing standing up, there are simply better alternatives to the SWE Shift due to the nature of the sleight - sleights that are easier to perform, have more cover, and take advantage of the fact that the performer is standing up, as opposed to sitting opposite their spectators.

Of course, the irony of your accusation is, only someone who actually performs would understand this point. To someone who does not perform, it really doesn't matter what move you do, and where.

However - no performer would be satisfied with an inferior performance. After all, when you're performing for real people, these things matter, and I hope that you realise that. Performing such an open shift with no cover standing up is not a practical idea - it is an idea created and accepted by magicians performing to their boys' club when sleights are all that matter.

There is nothing wrong with this, at all, don't get me wrong. There are many hobbyist magicians who find sleights more interesting than magic as a performing art. However, it would be appreciated if you could base your accusations on something more consistent with your argument.

Those people who do perform are more selective about what they use, and when.
 
I agree 100% Prae. I've just always practiced this move standing up, because frankly, I just enjoy reading Erdnase and playing with the moves in it. The SWE is DEFINITELY not something Iwould go to in a performance, unless I was looking for a quick little color change. Honestly, I think Erdnase's thoughts throughout the book are vastly more important than the techiniques he presents. "Uniformity of Action" anyone?

In regards to performing it sitting, I would agree again because this moves seems like it would be a successful "hop" but it isnt something that you could just chill there and do with people burning you. Heck, even look at chris kenner, he has to swing his hands up a mile in the air to cover the move. I tried to eliminate any excessive hand movement, as evidenced by my video, but at the card table, this shift w/o any movement just isnt feasible.


So overall, I study Erdnase to have fun with the moves, and to take heed of Erdnase's important messages throughout the text.

Thanks for the compliments:D
 

JasonEngland

theory11 artist / card mechanic
Nov 7, 2008
158
23
Las Vegas, NV
...the SWE Shift was designed to be a shift performable at a table...

The S.W.E. Shift is designed to be indetectable at the card table. Therefore, standing up removes it from the context for which it was intended.

Have you guys actually read this book?

Perhaps you have a different version of The Expert at the Card Table than I, but there is absolutely nothing in the written description of the S.W.E. shift that mentions whether or not it was/is designed to be used at a table.

In fact, since Erdnase is divided into two main parts, Card Table Artifice (moves that would fly during a game) and Legerdemain (magic only), and the S.W.E. shift appears in the second half, it would appear that the originator of the move disagrees with you, as do I. As if that wasn't enough, Erdnase himself said in the Card Table Artifice section that the only three shifts he felt were useful at a card table were the three he mentioned in that section. There goes the gambling tables from your claim....

Maybe you meant magic table instead of gambling tables.

Okay, but consider this: close-up magic as we know it today, didn't exist in 1902. Max Maven makes the argument, that its possible that performance-based close-up magic, as opposed to just doing a quick trick for a friend across a dinner table (which certainly DID exist), didn't come about until the late 1920s or early 1930s with Matt Schulien.

Whether or not you agree with Max, the fact remains that Erdnase would NOT have been using his S.W.E. shift at modern close-up distances. He would have been performing at what today we would consider "parlor" distances of 10 - 12 feet away. Since he also would have likely been performing under gas lamps (the electric light bulb existed but didn't overtake gas until well into the 1900s), the shift was much more difficult to see than in the typical well-light performance venues of today. Standing 10 feet away and performing under gas-lamp, I think it could be quite undetectable.

In short, no can say for sure whether it was invented for, or intended for a table. It clearly wasn't meant for a gaming table, but perhaps it was (as you claim) intended for a magic-distance table. However, the evidence is strongly against it.


Jason England
 
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WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,736
2,851
Huh. Schooled.

I have read it, but obviously not as much as you have, Jason. Flipped through now, and I see what I did. I was transposing the one-handed shift for the S.W.E. Shift. My apologies.
 

JasonEngland

theory11 artist / card mechanic
Nov 7, 2008
158
23
Las Vegas, NV
Christopher,

I've made dozens of mistakes regarding what I thought was in, or not in, Erdnase over the years.

Glad you didn't take the "have you guys read this book" line too literally or harshly. That was just me bustin' you guys' chops.

School's out for today.

Jason
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,434
6
Sydney, Australia
Jason - Thanks for clearing that up. Sincere apologies for the mistake. I can adamantly recall reading what I had posted - I thought it was in Erdnase, but I guess it wasn't. In any case, happy to defer to your knowledge. Maybe next time I'll get it right :p Actually, ask me about Max Maven instead of Erdnase, and, being a mentalist, I would hope that I'd be closer to the mark than I was here. I might even make a prediction out of it.

Cheers :)
 
Feb 4, 2008
959
2
Okay I hate to Hijack and old thread but I thought it might be better than starting a whole new thread on the same move. I too have been working on the SWE shift and had a question to pose to people with experience at this move.

(BTW to the OP. I too had difficulty deciphering the text. I kept hesitating getting the Chris Kenner download for almost a year until I finally thought to myself, "hell Erik it's only 6 bucks and you are steadily employed...Get it!" I found the download was well worth it even if the move is "public domain.")


Here is my question. Watching you-tubers perform it they almost always do it as a rising card change. ie. they put a card face up in a deck and in an instant it jumps to the top. Does anyone know of any footage of anyone using it in the context of a routine?

Also, for those who have practiced this to a performable level(I gather few claim to have "mastered" this one) do you use it as a rising card change or do you actually use it as a obfuscated shift in the context of a routine? How many just practice it for it's academic value?
 
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