Shadow Master OR Arcane?

Discussion in 'Magic Forum' started by Desmond, Jan 21, 2011.

  1. I love both of theese decks but I don't know which one should I choose.
    The Arcane in my opinion is a little bit better compared to the Shadow master, but in return the shadow master has the black BICYCLE back, so it's easier to be used in a routine with bicycle cards... so which one should I choose? I accept every suggestions!
  2. Shadow masters without a doubt...... they last longer..
  3. In terms of design and looks, I would definitely choose Arcanes over the Shadow Masters. If you wanted to do a routine using a different color back, you can get both the white and black Arcanes.

    In the end, it comes down to personal preference.
  4. why do you feel the need to choose between them? Buy them both and use what you want to.
  5. since they are really similiar, and I have to buy a ultragaff deck and 12 bicycle deck, I think it would be a great waste of money buying two similiar deck.. so which one is the best?
  6. Or, since you want a gaff deck, get Arcanes and an arcane gaff with Gregory Wilson's DVD...
  7. #7 Desmond, Jan 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2011
    i honestly think that the ultragaff is way better than it
    oh and i think the dvds are waste or money.. 30 dollars for dvds for some routines that you can find on youtube too.
  8. The DVD's are definitely NOT a waste. You are fairly new to magic from what I have seen. Anything you learn on youtube, especially if it is a major effect that's been released is looked down upon. Also, 98% of those tutorials don't teach very good at all. Gregory Wilson is an amazing magician and the way he handles cards is amazing. If you were to buy the Arcane gaff and his DVD, you would be doing yourself a HUGE favor to learn from him, along with learning out of RRTCM. Also, being a beginner, it is going to be A LOT harder than you think to come up with routines using those cards. They have to be copped or palmed into and out of play, you need to know where/how they are going to be positioned in the pack, you have to find and correctly position the force card (if there is one). Then you have to force the card, and use sleights to accomplish desired effect. One of the DVD's would help a TON even just to give you idea's on sleights and routines to use.
  9. #9 Desmond, Jan 21, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2011
    I can do sleights and card forces and I saw a lot of videos on youtube which explained really good how to use every gaff card, but I don't want to discuss about this (maybe I'm wrong and I'm gonna buy all the dvds, but first I'd like to see what I can do now wihtout the help of dvds), I just want to know: if I buy a ultragaff deck, is it a good choice? Since I'm new to magic (not that new, I love magic since I had 7 or 8 years, now I'm just starting doing "more serious magic"; I used to buy just trick decks like svengali deck and so on.. ) what do you suggest me to buy? So many people suggest me to buy royal card to magic and maybe I'll buy it, but.. are there any amazing card tricks performed without trick decks which you suggest me to buy?
    PS: just another question is it worth to buy this assorted bicycle deck ?,car-bys-1-bicycle-speciali.html I mean the first one "BICYCLE - ASSORTITO - GAFF"
    Where is the cheaper onlnie store where I can get 12 regulare bicycle decks?
  10. While this is true, I LOVE it when magicians assume that a beginner can't palm decently enough to perform it or be creative enough to design something. It's almost as if effect creativity in card magic only comes with being professional or in magic for a long time. Stop being ignorant.
  11. When I was new in magic, I learnt as much as I could. Like you I started with youtube, then when I depleted that resource (got tired of being taught by someone who couldn't even do it themselves) I bought a few E DVD's and I learnt a lot of sleights. Then I got the Trilogy and learned even more. The point is, I learned as much about card magic as I could, Only then did I decide what route I wanted to take. I would suggest the same for you.

    I think beginner magicians are very creative because they don't actually know that many sleights, so they are forced to come up with other means. Gaff cards require sleights. They are not a trick deck. Color changes, switches and vanishes are needed to make the magic happen. ANy of the Gaff DVD's on E will teach these, but you can also learn them from books. I would Recommend Card College to any magician as it gives you so many sleights to build tricks from. I feel DVD's kinda pidgeon hold you.

    So to sum things up, here is what I suggest. Go by Card College (or Royal Road to card magic if you are tight on cash) and learn as much sleight of hand as you can. Then decide if you still want to do Gaff magic or not. The stronger your knowledge of sleights, the stronger your Gaff magic will be.

    Hope this helps

  12. It sounded to me like he had just started magic and this was his first purchase. When I was making my first magic purchase (whatever it was, I don't remember) but I didn't expect to be throwing routines together and knowing all these sleights. I simply thought this was his first magic purchase and didn't want him in over his head or being disappointed when he realizes how tough it really is. So, yes, I was ignorant to the fact that he previously knew some card sleight/magic.
  13. I'll buy royal road, the ultragaff and a brick of 12 bicycle blue/red decks, but I still don't know where to buy it because on theory11 it costs 22 dollars
  14. Desmond,

    If you live in Canada you can go to Costco and buy a 12 pack of bicycle cards. There are 6 red and 6 blue. I think it costs something around $15. Before you go ahead and buy too many decks from one site, let me say this.

    Figure out which cards you like best. Different companies and playing cards use different stocks. Ellusionist is known for the thickness and hence durability of their playing cards. Bee is known for their softness. Theory 11 incorporates a deck thinner than E's, but it still is durable and is also soft. Play around with different kinds of decks before you buy a lot from one place.

  15. Well aren't you just a breath of fresh air? From all these other superficial gold-diggin' *****es in here?

    Seriously, there are some big heads on this thread. And it's rather amusing.

    Desmond- You're going to ask for advice, and get other people opinions, and then contradict them in your reply and make your own decision? Why even ask for help in the first place. Contrary to what SaborFang might think, the advice that R.K. magician gave you was sound. You sound to me like a beginner who is caught up in everything new and everything that has cool trailers on youtube. You don't need to spend a fortune when you first start magic. Buying a bunch of decks and a bunch of hip ellusionist gaff decks won't get you anywhere. I don't know if you're under this impression, but things like UltraGaff arent self working. It requires sleight of hand and practice to achieve the requisite ability to perform these tricks. You arent just gonna open a deck of cards, slap the 9 of clubs and have it explode. It doesn't work that way. Without proper foundations these cards and trick decks will do you no good, no matter how great those youtube tutorials are.

    What I, and many others, would suggest is that you pick up a book like Royal Road to Card Magic or Roberto Giobbi's "Card College" (volumes 1 and 2) and practice until your hands fall off. If you properly learn the basics now, you will be able to jump right into the "exciting stuff" later on with alot less difficulty. Also, it will save you from getting frustrated and quitting magic when you find out that what I'm saying to you is the truth, whether or not you choose to listen at this moment in time.

    And if you do infact choose to overlook my (and other's) advice, atleast do yourself a favor and buy a DVD to go along with whatever Gaff deck you buy. I myself have the UltraGaff and the 3 DVD set that comes with it, and it honestly makes life so much easier. Besides, as R.K. said, creating your own effects isn't as easy as you might think, and the faggots that spread their diesease all over youtube won't teach you anything worthwhile because all they care about is subscribers and being the "cool kid :cool:" cause they revealed the latest Ellusionist trick.
  16. Hahahaha. When I first saw a gaff deck (11 years old) I thought that's how it worked.

    *double facepalm.
  17. HIi UnknownMagician93, and first of all thank you for your advices.
    You said I contradict other's advices and then make my own decisions, don't just jump to conclusions: I considere every suggestion I read, and if I don't agree, I'd like to discuss them and I want to know if my choices are good or not. Also, for the LAST time, I won't be as good as you, but I'm not "a beginner who is caught up in everything new and everything that has cool trailers on youtube", I do magic tricks since I was really young, but just for hobby, but now I know a lot of tricks, sleights, false cuts and so on: the point is I'm not new to magic and if I sound so new, maybe that's because I don't know the difference between each pack of cards: softness, thickness, hence durability and so on.. I just own a regular deck of bicycle cards and in my conuntry (actually ITALY, not Canada..) they're not so common so I must buy them on Internet.
    Also, I've already said that I'm gonna buy a "royal road to card magic book" (I must buy that too online -.-) but honestly, I'm not gonna spend about 90 dollars for 3 dvds (or maybe not now), because I know how to do a lot o tricks of the ultragaff deck (although I don't own it yet): angels, the battery trick, inked ( again, don't jump to coclusions saying "You arent just gonna open a deck of cards, slap the 9 of clubs and have it explode. It doesn't work that way" I know every card of the ultragaff deck and I know how to do a lot of routines with it, don't understimate me. Anyway I absolutely don't want to criticize you, I just want to clarify.
  18. Fair enough. It just seemed to me that you didnt agree with anything and were just going with what YOU wanted, so I was wondering why you posted this thread in the first place. No hard feelings.
  19. I'm not saying you guys are wrong. I'm just saying it's annoying for magicians to think like they're the only damn creative people on this planet when, in fact, they aren't, regardless of whatever you or anybody else says otherwise.
  20. I can't tell if that was just a gross misinterpretation or if you're just stupid.

    R.K. simply stated that as a beginner magician you don't have the certain aptitude for creativity that comes through experience. As you gain experience and learn more moves you will think more and more "outside the box" and develop a certain knack for creating your own magic. This is not to say that beginners aren't creative, it's just that they lack the experience to think much past the basic concepts in magic. R.K. made this point and it is extremely valid, even if it may seem somewhat assumptive and stereotypicial.

    With that said, he in no way said that magicians are the only creative people on this planet, and where you got that from... well... It probably wasn't from this planet.

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