Stage Tricks

May 21, 2011
47
0
I have to do a talent show at school for magic and I only do close up magic. I need some stage magic tricks that pack small and play big. The only stage stuff I have is an appearing cane and some mouth coils.
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,483
3
A Land Down Under
Many of us are fairly helpful however we need a little more information.

When is this talent show?
How long do you have to perform for?
What is your budget?

I will come up with some more later.
 
Oct 8, 2011
102
1
Baltimore
you seem like you are new to the forums so let me point you in the right direction.
if you have a question, before you start a new thread you should always search the forums for threads about the same thing.

lol not wasting my breath here
 
Jun 1, 2009
1,066
6
You HAVE to do the talent show? You don't seem very prepared for it. Anyway, check out Magicgeek.com they have some cool stage stuff. If you are looking for just one effect to do you should be ok. But if it's close up making a coherent routine could be cumbersome.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
WARNING: This is going to sound harsh

First of all, if you don't have an act how can you possibly consider doing "a show"?

Secondly, if you don't have an act, have you even thought things through when it comes to creating one?

A Routine/Act/Show does not mean you find a handful of bits and toss them into a pile, it means that you have PLANNED things out and worked with the material so as to create a cohesive program that has proper flow to it. It means that the material presented defines your character to a strong degree; not just the effects chosen but how you present them -- patter, blocking, even the ambiance created on stage will make all the difference in the world.

Are you looking at Comedy, Classical, Big Stage or Parlor?

What genres appeal to you and more importantly, do you have a penchant for? Not everyone can pull off the classic Lance Burton style of program but similarly, not all of us can be Mac King. Where do you fit? But too, "Do you fit?"

Your age, your looks, your nature are all part of what goes into creating an act/character -- Stage Presence. You must have a defined idea as to who and what all of this is before you can actually build "an act". That means you need to be honest about your strengths and weaknesses in order to use these things to your advantage.

Enough of the Challenge Point​

With all of this in mind get yourself a brand new notebook 5-Subject Notebook and start writing;
  • Who Am I and What Are My Goals?
  • What Do I Already Know?
  • What Resources Do I Have?
  • Routines
  • The Plan

Who Am I and What Are My Goals?
You need to have a vision -- how you envision yourself on stage. Don't superimpose your favorite star of magic onto your body, see yourself doing magic, be very specific about what you're doing and WHY; literally taking inventory so you can learn more about the effects you picture in your mind while getting a partial understanding as to why that effect appeals to you.

What Do I Already Know?
Look at what you know right now, it will probably surprise you in that we rarely recognize just how much we do know that can be applied to a series of things. If you have the Mark Wilson Course you are already way ahead of where you thought you were; if you have Tarbell you're even further ahead on things. Break it all down in this section and grade yourself as to how well you know these things and your skill level when it comes to that technique or presenting said effect.

What Resources Do I Have?
What books & videos do you have on the shelf, who & what do you have available to you on line, what kinds of construction materials & skills do you have on hand or could easily acquire when it comes to making props and/or gimmicks. If you must buy something retail then look at the price alongside how you can cover that investment, but likewise look at what your alternatives may be (there's always more than one way of executing an effect). You also need to look at WHO you have that can help and why be it parents, school mates, others involved with magic/theater, etc.

Routines
This is where you get creative and actually start stitching together bits of business that you know you can do (or will be able to do in short time) and do exceptionally well but likewise weaving these bits into "modules" as I call them; 3-5 minute blocks of time that will eventually permit you to create an actual program by simply inserting them into a specific sequence that sustains your persona, the mood you wish to create with each bit and so forth. You want to be very detailed so put down descriptions that have you actually going through all the motions to do each bit whether it's a rope routine, miser's dream, whatever -- see it in your mind's eye and write it out in as accurate of detail as possible, each and every move and nuance.

The Plan
Another bit of mental creation, in this case you will be looking at the culmination of these other bits and how to put it all together;
  • Study & Practice Time
  • Rehearsal Time
  • How to Get the Needed Inventory
  • Where to Get the Inventory & Costs
  • How to Cover those Costs
  • A Timeline: Deadlines for Reaching Project Goals

This is just surface dirt but it's enough to help you (anyone) get to square one when it comes to building a solid "Act" that they can be proud of vs. a pile of in-congruent stuff that you "have" because it sounds cool or worse, might make you look cool. . . what I call "ego magic" in that it only serves the ego of the "performer" in most instances. Rather, you will have magic that has purpose that fits you.

Time is the Biggie! Don't set your eyes on doing any kind of Talent Show before next fall (assuming you start now in getting prepared). It takes a solid 6+ months to create a decent program when you're just starting out, sometimes more. You simply need a starting point based on where you stand right now with your knowledge, resources and determination to not just create an act but create a solid act that will give you winning potential. Think of it this way, how many hours a day do you think the musicians and even actors are investing into their talents in order to win?

The typical Piano student probably puts no less than two hours a day when leading into a competition; jugglers & ventriloquists are in a constant state of practicing exactly what they will present in a show, same with dancers and so forth, Magicians are the all too frequent exception to this rule because we think "the tricks" are all we need -- NOT TRUE! But that's another story altogether.

Hope you digest what's being said here.
 
Apr 25, 2009
459
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39
Yorktown, VA
So you are a close up magician by hobby? Why not just stick with close up magic? There are ways to get the audience of a larger crowd more involved with a stage close up act, it just takes a little fore thought and a couple of items. If you can get a video camera and a projector, you would be set. A video camera can be acquired at no cost to you if you can call in a few favors with your friends. And if this is a school, you should also be able to check out a projector with some investigation.

I am just trying to keep your options open. This way you don't have to worry so much about learning a new style and more about perfecting the one that you already have.
 

formula

Elite Member
Jan 8, 2010
968
5
Can people not just answer questions anymore? He is asking if anyone can sell him good stage material, so why are you lot giving advice on what he should do rather than what he is doing. The only thing close to relevant is from Jewish_Illusion, who suggested searching the forum first.

Good stage material:

Paper balls over head
chop cup
bill/card in lemon, egg, lime etc
The one where you put a knife through a guys coat/jacket, pull the stitching out and end up restoring it
cups and balls
linking rings
ring on rope

Those are my suggestions off the top of my head.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
Can people not just answer questions anymore? He is asking if anyone can sell him good stage material, so why are you lot giving advice on what he should do rather than what he is doing. The only thing close to relevant is from Jewish_Illusion, who suggested searching the forum first.

A list of tricks won't give him what he needs, without a foundation he'll simply be another hack halfassing stuff he's rushed into vs. someone with a foundation, that's invested some genuine time and effort into creating something that could actually win such a talent program. We see this far too much in magic, probably why Max Maven pointed out that "Good Magic is Like Good Sex; It's just Harder to Find"

What you seem to be supporting here is the myth that "all you need is the box". . . something I've benefited from for years; the fools that go out and spend a $30k or so on an Illusion act only to find out that it's far more than just owning the boxes and scantly dressed girls. . . I and many others have been able to buy such shows for ten cents on the dollar within two to five years of constant failure on the part of the fool making said assumption. Too, be it the Paper Wads, the Rings or a Chop Cup you MUST know your stuff and have the right kind of savvy/stage presence as well as skill to sell it to the audience; Richard Ross never showed his Ring routine in public until after he'd practiced it for nearly two full years, same is true of John Penndragon or Mark Kaylin & his Billiard Ball act. . . you don't just buy a handful of tricks, learn the basic mechanics and two weeks later, do a show; it insults the audience and worse, it perpetuates the public perception of the bumbling geek that's ill-prepared.

One of the worse things to happen in magic is the magic club followed by today's forums; while you can learn a great deal from both you likewise get tons of misinformation, most of which comes from people with little to no practical experience in the real world of show. Magician's being horrid pack-rats with a disgustingly high number of us patting one another on the back and offering praise even though we know for a fact one another SUCKS! We blindly co-sign poor habits out of guilt in the fact that we need to have others doing the same thing we do. When someone rocks the boat however, they are the one's viewed as being a "jerk" because they won't play along; especially when that someone is speaking up for the ART and image of the craft and encouraging quality over self-will gone riot.

In this instance the gist of the question reveals someone that is inexperienced and not yet ready to rush into a competition, no matter how limited and low profile that contest may be -- there is no foundation; if there were he'd not be asking such a question, he'd know. The question itself implies that he's not studied the Mark Wilson or Tarbell courses let along Magic & Showmanship or the other foundation texts every first year magic fan should be more than half-way familiar with. If the questioner were familiar with these pieces he'd already have a very wide set of options that are easily made at home for next to nothing, including large scaled illusions.

Knowledge & Foundation are far more important than a growing inventory of "stuff" that will ultimately become a dust collector on the shelf.

In the case of a Talent Show I was told to actually exhibit TALENT -- solid manipulation followed by the bigger effects; the one validating my claim of being a "Magician" with the larger pieces lending to me a sense of signature. That's how it used to taught and encouraged and it's something we really need to get back to.
 

formula

Elite Member
Jan 8, 2010
968
5
A list of tricks won't give him what he needs
Who are you to say what this guy (or girl) needs?
I didn't read past that sentence because it's all moo. You have absolutely no idea what kind of level this person is at but regardless, all he is asking for is for people to recommend some stage material. He is not asking for a lecture about what he needs to do before you will suggest good material. It's a simple question with a simple answer.
 
Apr 25, 2009
459
0
39
Yorktown, VA
Who are you to say what this guy (or girl) needs?

With all due respect, formula, we know from experience. We know, that you will never be able to perform a halfway decent stage act in a little amount of time.

You have absolutely no idea what kind of level this person is at

Oh, but we do:

I have to do a talent show at school for magic and I only do close up magic

A lot of times, people really don't know what they need, it is the honest truth. It is a fact of life. Sometimes the guys that work for me come up asking for help on this one thing and upon closer inspection, I could tell you that they needed something else entirely. Why? Because I have the experience in my field, and I know what works best with what. Listen to the main message of most magicians out there and you will find that in order to master this art, it takes time and patience. We are not giving this guy a fish when he asks for it, we are teaching him to fish.
 
Apr 25, 2009
459
0
39
Yorktown, VA
I think I should say, we aren't discouraging him from pursuing stage magic at all. We are trying to persuade him from doing a stage magic performance in such a short time.
 

formula

Elite Member
Jan 8, 2010
968
5
With all due respect, formula, we know from experience. We know, that you will never be able to perform a halfway decent stage act in a little amount of time.
Take a second to listen to what he's asking. You don't speak for more than yourself so "we" is not a commitment you can make. More to the point, he isn't saying that he wants to do the best stage magic act in his country. It's a school talent show for gods sake, tell him some good tricks and let him have some fun.

A lot of times, people really don't know what they need, it is the honest truth. It is a fact of life. Sometimes the guys that work for me come up asking for help on this one thing and upon closer inspection, I could tell you that they needed something else entirely. Why? Because I have the experience in my field, and I know what works best with what. Listen to the main message of most magicians out there and you will find that in order to master this art, it takes time and patience. We are not giving this guy a fish when he asks for it, we are teaching him to fish.
I'm not talking about what he may or may not need, I'm saying that you should be more concerned with yourself before lecturing this person. He wants peoples opinions of good stage tricks, so I can't understand why people are feel the need to create more barriers rather than providing a solution to his current problem.
If you don't want to give him the "fish" that he's asking for then don't post. Telling him he needs to do this and that to master the art is not even close to teaching him to fish.

It's a young person that has a talent competition coming up, think about that.

I think I should say, we aren't discouraging him from pursuing stage magic at all. We are trying to persuade him from doing a stage magic performance in such a short time.
This, I agree with. If you don't want to help him then don't post. Don't make him pay for something he didn't take.
 
May 21, 2011
47
0
I've been close-up magic professionally for almost a year now and as a hobby for 5 years, but I have pretty much zero experience in stage magic. The reason I have to do it is because everyone in school wants me to do it, and so do I, so I'm going to (also I could win $100). What I wanted to know was what tricks play well on stage. All of you people wasted your time except for formula and partially the jewish guy.

Edit: Also I have no interest in pursuing stage magic after this.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

bentley

Elite Member
Nov 23, 2007
220
1
I've been close-up magic professionally for almost a year now and as a hobby for 5 years, but I have pretty much zero experience in stage magic. The reason I have to do it is because everyone in school wants me to do it, and so do I, so I'm going to (also I could win $100). What I wanted to know was what tricks play well on stage. All of you people wasted your time except for formula and partially the jewish guy.

Edit: Also I have no interest in pursuing stage magic after this.
Do what you know best. Don't do something that you just learned. That being said get a jumbo screen and do tricks for camera with a live feed onto the jumbo screen. You perform on stage and everyone can see it. Win win.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
I'm not talking about what he may or may not need, I'm saying that you should be more concerned with yourself before lecturing this person. He wants peoples opinions of good stage tricks, so I can't understand why people are feel the need to create more barriers rather than providing a solution to his current problem.
If you don't want to give him the "fish" that he's asking for then don't post. Telling him he needs to do this and that to master the art is not even close to teaching him to fish.

It's a young person that has a talent competition coming up, think about that.

So based on your view I should tell him to run out and buy a Shadow Vision, Asrah, Thin Model Sawing and a few other $15,000.00 props that are "good tricks"?

Where's the perspective?

Just because one person does a particular piece and gets a standing ovation from it doesn't mean anyone else will get that same reaction. While there are certain things about an effect that will generally give you an applause cue there is a huge difference between using what's built into the effect and being able to PERFORM it at the level anyone will need to be at in order to WIN a competition. . . I don't know about you but I'd certainly not participate in a competition if I didn't have the mind to actually win it, which is why I and others here, offered the "lectures" vs. a list of random things.

I can give him several lists of bits that work very well for most that do them but it's not the prop/effect that wins the awards let alone public accolades.

People, like myself that have been around nearly every facet of magic for several decades, have an eye and can tell fairly quick, where someone is coming from based on the words used in a post and the essence of the question itself. This comes with experience but likewise perspective. My encouraging someone that's not experienced with stage work to do a routine that's heavily dependent on one's acting skills wouldn't be wise, would it? Yet, anyone that does a Q&A type act in their Mentalism program will tell you it's the most powerful, mind-blowing bit in that arena just as I'll tell you that it's easy to get more than a half-dozen applause cues from a Sawing in Half routine even though the typical magician that first lays his hands on the cabinet will work his butt off to get more than one or two hard hits.

Owning a prop/doing a trick isn't where the "good" or "quality" comes from. If you don't have a foundation you will loose.
 

formula

Elite Member
Jan 8, 2010
968
5
So based on your view I should tell him to run out and buy a Shadow Vision, Asrah, Thin Model Sawing and a few other $15,000.00 props that are "good tricks"?
No. That wouldn't help him. Should you have any common sense, you would do what I did.

Owning a prop/doing a trick isn't where the "good" or "quality" comes from. If you don't have a foundation you will loose.
I agree with you that a trick is only as good as the performer but give him a break, he asked for a bit of advice on some good stage stuff. It doesn't take a solid foundation in stage theatre to pull an appearing pole out of a bag and make a joke. If you don't want to help him then don't but don't make this thread about you and your superior experience.
 
Dec 18, 2007
1,610
14
64
Northampton, MA - USA
I don't recall saying anything about my being "superior" only that I do have experience as do many of the others you seem offended by. Why does experience and the act of sharing such with someone, helping them to get prepared PROPERLY for something they wish to be a part of, why is this so wrong and such a terrible thing to you?

You can give a hungry man a fish and he'll be sated for the moment or you can teach him how to fish so he'll never be without the ability to tend to his own needs, I think that really sums up the situation; you'll give him a fish but others of us here will show him how to catch his own.
 
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