Stealing Effects

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by avihoffmanmagic, Jun 15, 2010.

  1. Allrite, I just wanted to discuss what I believe to be an extremely controversial topic. Stealing magic effects and concepts, and selling them as your own.

    Take this case for example. Lets assume I invented a completely original effect. I publish it. Then, someone else takes my effect and publishes it under his name. Then, another magician publishes it under his name. So, so far two magicians have stolen my idea. But here is the question: Was the third guy guilty of stealing an idea from me AND the second guy? Or only me? Also, consider the following: Maybe the second guy wasnt aware that the effect was already published, and came up with it by himself. Should he take it off the market? Or is he entitled to keep on the market, for all practical purposes, his own effect?

    I just want to hear some of your thoughts on the issue.
  2. I think to avoid this problem , you should immediately publish your material with copyright protection so that no one would be able to copy it.If they copy it , they are infringing copyright law and you have the right to order him to take it down or sue him.
  3. And we should take this advice from someone we know who steals magic? I think not my friend......
  4. And you are going whine about it ? My statement is purely based on personal experience.
  5. The only way to prevent reselling someone else's effect accidentally is to do some research on if there are any tricks that are the same that are already out there. This has happened to me a lot of times when i think I created something then i find that someone already did it. I think that this is the main reason why some submitted effects don't get accepted by T11 because its already been done.
    Just my $.02
  6. a) I would say that whilst the third guy technically may have stolen from the second guy, I would only consider the effect of stealing from you.

    b) The second guy is not guilty of stealing per se; however, he is guilty by omission of not doing his research. It happens every now and again, and independent invention is a wonderful thing - but I think as long as he does the right thing after being informed by crediting the origins of the effect and where it came from and other developments in the field... Well, it depends how exactly the same it is, I suppose - there's always debate as to whether something is a complete knock off or a genuine development in an effect.
  7. Personal experience? Please, you're a little kid, What have YOU put out in published trolls gotta come back with something logical....

    My fact is done here, I think you have the idea pretty much no one is going to take you seriously anymore. You gotta redeem yourself pretty big to get yourself out of this hole.

  8. This is pretty much right, there IS no copyrights on a magic trick or sleight, otherwise you'd be stealing a LOT of people's effects and moves everyday! It is right to put credit where it is due, so if they put something on the market knowing that it's out there, he isn't acknowledging you or crediting you. So he is in the wrong there. But praetoritevong is correct. Take his advice....and maybe some of mine too. :p

  9. I would say that if two people invent a single move completely independently of one another, then they should ideally collaborate and sell it together and split the profits. However, the likelihood is that one of them will have come up with it first and/or published it first, in which case I would be inclined to say "The early bird gets the worm"

    Furthermore I would say that with regards to the guy who stole from the guy who stole from you - if a burglar steals from you and then someone steals from him, is the second man stealing from you too? Well not really, unless the first burglar is going to be made to give it back in some way (like if he was caught). Just my opinion.

    Bill Charlton. What will we do with you? If you want to steal magic that is your affair but you really should have had the sense to not broadcast it over the internet. Nothing you say can redeem you in the eyes of some of these vultures. I would recommend that you close this account and start over with a different name because no-one is going to take you seriously anymore.
    Everyone makes mistakes, but as I have learned in the past - sometimes admitting the first mistake is the really big mistake...

    To be honest I think some people worry far too much about this whole "stealing effects" problem. In a small way Charlton has a point. If everyone stopped driving cars in the world except, say, five people - global warming would not be such a problem, but why should those five people get the privilege when the rest of the world is exercising restraint? Same goes. No artist is going to miss $4.99 for a single one-on-one so as long as not everyone does it... I'm not saying it's OK, but I can see that it would not be a problem if very few people did it. My question is this: What gives YOU the right?
  10. Thank you guys, you guys are bringing up some really valid points. I also wanted to say that if you invent an effect which is similar to something else, contacting the person who invented the other effect, he probably knows a little about the history, and can give you further sources for further research. So even if you don't talk to the guy merely for permission, it is still a good idea to contact him.

    Also, in my early magic days, i came up with two moves without ever seeing them before: The double life. And the pinky break. I never took credit for inventing them, but I always thought it was cool that I came up with, probably the most fundamental card moves out there.

    Again, thank you guys for your comments, and I hope they will keep coming.
  11. LOL...aren't you the fool that said you would take "full advantage" of every situation when referencing how you learned one of Wayne's tricks for free on youtube?

    It's also good to finally meet one of the people who also took "full advantage" of the $4.95 coupon that T11 offered a couple of weeks back by abusing it.
  12. I can honestly express no surprise whatsoever, but I didn't know that b_08...

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