EVERYONE! SHUT THE HELL UP! Stop fighting like old lumpy babys. I think this video is perfect for this thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9gRCONfV8U Listen to Daniel Madison and his thoughts.
Yes, but if you choose an effect where fast hands are illogical, and than ADD a great presentation, the chanses of achieving the pinacle of your magic performance are a lot higher, that if you do an effect with knuckle busting sleights and great presentation.Thanks for the support guys. As far as selection of effects go, those type of effects may make the 'fast hands' response illogical but you may still get it anyway just because they can't think of anything better to say. Its kind of like the 'how did you do that?' response that people blurt out when often they don't particularly want to know how you did it.
You said it perfectly. But once again, it is a lot easier to achieve that with clean routines, than knucklebusting ones. Why wouldn't you want to make it easier on yourself?Not knocking carefully considering your effects, that is very important. I just think personally if you want these deep reactions, its going to be more important how you present your effects and all the 'pregame'. That is to say, creating this frame of mind, or bubble, around you and your spectators where it IS socially acceptable to be deeply astonished and to experience 'real magic'. If you want them to react in certain ways you have to first create that vibe where the safest response is what your desired response would be.
Just as like you are going to have to have reactions like "how did you do that?" which is inevitable, you are also from time to time going to have those kind of reactions that you just described, no matter what effects you do (to a certain point). That is more subjective to the people you are performing for.tl;dr For me its less about the effect and more how you present. I distinctly remember doing a set for this couple that consisted of 2CM, The Biddle Trick, and Madison's Lapse, getting deeper and deeper reactions each time. At the end of the performance, the
guy wanted to get a picture taken with me so I went into what was basically Smile by Justin Miller. This utterly destroyed them. I mean purely awe-stricken, didn't say anything for a good while, just stared at the picture on his phone, mouth agape. Deep deep astonishment. All of these effects are for most of us 'card tricks' and treated as such. Framed the right way, however, they destroyed just as hard as any effect could ever hope to. This is why I feel presentation and pre-game is king.
Toby said he wanted to give people a certain feeling in that performance. He didn't. And he knows why he didn't. Now he wants to do better. He knows what he's trying to accomplish, which is more than I can say of 99% of the people here, yourself included. Most of you will take any reaction you can get and settle for that. Some of us want something more than that.
I would agree with you Toby, but I think, in todays day and age its hard for people to believe in "magic".
Lets face it, the masked magician and youtube and many other sources to learn magic are freely accessible. Even if certain people dont learn or study magic They know the too can be a 'magician' if they dish out a couple of bucks. You pass "magic shops" on the way to the supermarket, work, school etc. Even if people never visit these shops, they know what the concept is... "Walk in and learn magic, impress you're friends."
Yet, people still believe in psychics, paranormal things, aurora readers, palm readers, readers in general, medical homeopathic medicines (Basically snake oil salesman), and religion.
Maybe instead of billing yourself as a magician, try something else...
So if people are familiar with magic and it's ways with magicians don't present your magic as magic but make it something more excepted as paranormal or supernatural.
Just some other food for thought for ya Toby. In order to better get the "Magic is real" kind of reaction, is to not perform on the street/bars/public settings. You are probably better off renting a room somewhere and performing a show with people who are preconditioned to see magic and not so much just tricks.
A really beefy, awesome post.
I think there is something between "fast hands" and "magic is real." To me "fast hands" implies that the audience is thinking that there is a method (even though you are good enough that they can't figure it out). In some ways, the audience feels "tricked." "Real magic" implies some supernatural power. The in between is what I would call amazement or astonishment. The audience knows in the back of their mind that there is a method and that it is not real, but they aren't focused on that because the have seen something that appears to be impossible and they were entertained, astonished or amazed. In other words, there was more to the performance than the "trick."
I think that Toby was looking for that something in between rather than having people believe in "real magic" but he will have to clarify that himself.
Part of what plays into renting a room (or travelling with a film crew) is prestige. You are "the magician." Your not "that guy two chairs down at that bar." They expect "tricks" from the guy at the bar and "magic" from the magician.
That is correct. Thank you for putting my own thoughts a lot better than I did.I think there is something between "fast hands" and "magic is real." To me "fast hands" implies that the audience is thinking that there is a method (even though you are good enough that they can't figure it out). In some ways, the audience feels "tricked." "Real magic" implies some supernatural power. The in between is what I would call amazement or astonishment. The audience knows in the back of their mind that there is a method and that it is not real, but they aren't focused on that because the have seen something that appears to be impossible and they were entertained, astonished or amazed. In other words, there was more to the performance than the "trick."
I think that Toby was looking for that something in between rather than having people believe in "real magic" but he will have to clarify that himself.
Part of what plays into renting a room (or travelling with a film crew) is prestige. You are "the magician." Your not "that guy two chairs down at that bar." They expect "tricks" from the guy at the bar and "magic" from the magician.
Thank you for your reply.Toby,
you proved exactly my thoughts on magic by going out and performing the way you did. This closely relates to the age old question whether one should or should not put any "flourishing" in their act. The answer is simple, depends on what your goal is. If your goal is to entertain, you can put a backflip and a handstand to help achieve that goal; however, if it is to prove that magic is real or to have the audience second guess reality, leave all the flourishy business out of it and keep it simple. Ask yourself what your goals are and build your act accordingly - I've said it since day one.
On that note, I have to tip my hat off to anyone who builds an act revolving around the authenticity of magic, it is an ever increasingly difficult and dying trend.
Thanks for sharing!
I think there is nothing wrong for your magic to be qualified as a "sleight of hand" trick...as some people said before...as long as you entertain them is ok!
Why settle for what somebody thinks is good enough when you yourself know you can achieve more? Are we all really so addicted to the reactions of others that we're willing to call any positive reaction a success? Do we really believe that all positive reactions are of equal merit?
It's disheartening to see how many people here are willing to rest on their laurels.
I had a similar revelation with my magic some years ago. It came after I put down Absolute Magic by Derren Brown after reading it when it was first released. After I read that book the first time my entire repertoire was turned inside out and upside down. It was both disheartening and very exciting to throw out, or restructure, so many of the effects I had been performing for so long, but it was one of the best things I ever did, and I became a much better magician because of it. And it's something I'm still working on and always will be.
It's not about trying to convince anyone there are real magic powers at work; it's about fulfilling the purpose of why magic needs to be performed in the first place--to give the people we are entertaining more than just cheap entertainment (which is what sleight-of-hand on its own is)--to give them that hot white moment of astonishment where they can't wrap their heads around what they just experienced: it wasn't fast hands, a trick ball, a clever switch, etc.--it was something unexplainable. That's the goal of successful magic. And I think that's what you're getting at. And I agree.
When magic is held to a high standard it has the power to really affect people. But it takes a lot of work--both in studying and preparing, as well as in the trenches during a performance. In the end, however, I believe it is a much more gratifying pursuit than what many others might otherwise be after--knowingly or unknowingly.
Good luck in your journey, Toby. You just made a long stride.
Mat
I've been thinking recently about that story of the artist Giotto, how the Pope asked him for a drawing to prove his skill, and Giotto drew a perfect circle freehand and sent that as his response. To me, that sums up what this kind of debate rests on, it's the dividing point between art and craft. Giotto was displaying great skill, in a way that might be comparable to a flourish or a display of difficult sleights, but it couldn't really be considered art, as it expresses no meaning outside itself. In the same way, a lot of magicians are content to perform entertaining tricks, or show off very good mastery of their craft, but that doesn't constitute art. The response "How did you do that?", to me, indicates good craftsmanship, but a failure of artistry. You've displayed impressive technique but not expressed anything beyond that. That's fine, by the way. I, and lots of other people, appreciate a good display of skill, and can find it extremely entertaining.
If you want your magic to affect your audience emotionally, or maybe even change them in some way, then you're moving into the realms of art. It's a difficult challenge, and one that takes a huge degree of theatrical and presentational skill. I don't think I've ever seen it done with sleight-of-hand, only with mentalism, and then rarely, but I'm sure it would be possible for someone with the right approach. However, in the same way that some people are emotionally moved by certain pieces of art, which leave others cold, or leave yet others with only a technical appreciation, you won't have the same effect on all audience members.