Tonight I Failed Magic

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Toby, Nov 5, 2010.

  1. oh!! I love more saturday night contests....a lot of members that I have never seen a post, magically appear!!
     
  2. I understand what you are trying to say. But, once again, I never said that I wan't my audience to believe in magic, I want them to suspend their disbelief and basically have NO explanation. If their explanation is "magic" I will not disagree, but if their explanation is that I have "fast hands" than I will see that as a personal magic failure.
    I love the idea of building up the impossibility, which can actually give you time and a lot of opportunities to lead them the way that you want them to go.
     

  3. I actually joined this forum on October 4th, 2007 and I don't see why having 1 post makes my opinion any less valid than anyone elses.

    Maybe post 1 should have been more like "Hi nice to meet you all" but to be honest, after being a keen observer of these forums for a long while I finally became sick of having to wade through Steerpike's self-absorbed nonsense just to read something interesting or valuable from some of the more positive members. His negativity and apparent total lack of humility seems to pop-up in 90% of the interesting threads. Steerpike seems happy to do the childlike thing of jump into a conversation, snipe at someone, and leave with "I dont care what you say" when he recieves a rebuke. It's much less an issue with him as a magician, more of the way he conducts himself and treats other members.

    I feel justified in making the comments and would be quite happy to discuss it further in private. Although I doubt I will be taken up on that offer.
     
  4. Personally, I don't think the most powerful magic comes from the audience having "no explanation". I think that, if they literally have no idea how something was achieved, they'll jump on the easiest explanation, usually "fast hands", even if that wasn't consistent with what they saw. If they can't write it off as "fast hands", then you'll get the reaction, "How did you do that?", which is what you're trying to avoid. In the nineteenth century, powerful magic was achieved by presenting an illusion as something that was pushing the boundaries of physics, some strange property of electricity or magnetism for example, playing on the fact that the audience had a little knowledge of the subject, but it was fascinating and mysterious enough to still be amazing. Derren Brown has done the same thing with psychology. He isn't asked "How", as audiences think they can understand what's he's doing, but they still marvel that such things are possible.

    With the example of an ACR, my thinking is that one way to create this situation is to use a gambling presentation. A lay audience has heard terms like "bottom dealing", "palming" and so on, but they probably don't have a full grasp on how such things are achieved. So, if you double-lift, put the X card cleanly in the middle, and then perform apparently "the cleanest false deal in the world" by turning over the top card, then you will eliminate the "How did you do that?" question, because you've apparently already answered that. You will allow your audiences simply to revel in the impossibility of what they've just seen.
     
  5. You have an "ignore" button. Use it.

    Given the criticism you leveled at me earlier, I don't believe that's entirely honest. Besides that, I can be more friendly when I desire to. But you need to give me a reason. You opened with the same criticisms I hear from every other anonymous stick in the mud who has a bone to pick with me. If you want to lecture me about diplomacy, try exercising some yourself.

    At this point, there's not much you can say that would change my mind because, again, I have no idea who you are or why I should care and you've given me no reason to believe you'd be very forthcoming with that information. Now, had someone like Craig Browning called me a douche, I'd be more inclined to listen. But that's because I know Craig and respect him immensely. But so far all I know about you is that you don't like me and while you criticize me for giving what you percieve to be generic, pre-packaged advice, your own sole contribution that wasn't complaining about me was more of the same. Nothing particularly insightful or that hadn't been said before. Glass houses, friend.
     
  6. Well Andy, the fact that you think what Steerpike posts is "self-absorbed nonsense" tells me that you're one of those "touchy feely" guys that can't stand to look at the realities of life. None of what Steerpike writes are things that can't be proven if someone opens their eyes and looks out their window. His opinions aren't based on what "should be" but "what is".

    Does his way get a rise out of people? Sure. Is it polarizing? Definitely. Want an example? You've joined since 2007 but yet you've never been moved to make a post except for when you've read his stuff. Funny.
     
  7. Love me, hate me, doesn't matter. I get results, baby!
     
  8. I must agree with this...

    There was a great member here sometime ago..I heard he is now crazy busy to be here but and he is an extremely great magician with great knowledge, each of his posts was delicious to read...but he always respected the other forum members by in a very politely way by disagreeing with them and just trying to help...I believe with Steerpike is quite the opposite...maybe you do have a lot of knowledge or have a lot of experience, but it doesn´t show here, instead you insult other members by using these things ****, of course we know what does that mean...I wouldn´t mind the attitude if you were actually helping and giving advice...

    btw; this great member I refered before, his name is Brad Henderson, man!! I miss his posts!!
     
  9. Do you really think the staff here would have let me carry on as long as I have if I never helped anyone? You don't have to like me. But don't lie about me.
     
  10. You don't need to give advice to be on here. You are just a member of the forums like the rest of us. I do agree with Luis in the fact that I haven't heard you give advice either, only attitude and insult others. Just chill out guys and go back to the topic at hand.
     
  11. http://tinyurl.com/steerpike

    Guess it is true what Scot Boras has said, “If you are really effective at what you do, 95% of the things said about you will be negative.”

    Taken from another thread that has recently popped up.
     
  12. It all depends on how you approach the art of magic. If you're looking to replicate real magic, then yes, your work should look (or be, if possible) virtually move-less.

    But there are other approaches... One off the top of my head is Gregory Wilson... All of his work revolves around challenging his audiences to "catch him cheating and doing sleight of hand"... With that approach, the fact that the spectators "miss all of the moves" is what makes the work so strong. To each his own I suppose.
     
  13. Which then further makes audience feel stupid and slow, since they are not up to the challenge put by the magician.
     
  14. Not necessarily. An analogy would be blatantly calling someone stupid to their face. If you'd just randomly walked up to someone on the street, that would probably be offensive, but if it was a friend of yours and delivered in the right way it may be taken as a joke. In the same way, "challenge" magic, isn't necessarily going to make an audience feel stupid, any more than Derren Brown's or Guy Hollingworth's use of long words and upper-middle-class accents will make an audience feel educationally inadequate. It's all about personal delivery. If the audience feels warmth towards you, and you've built a rapport, you can dare to do things, which, on paper, may seem socially unacceptable (picking a pocket for example) or even downright rude.
     
  15. You missed the point. There's a reason I haven't been perma-banned yet. And it's not because I "don't need to give advice to be on here."

    How is that my fault?
     
  16. I think a lot more often you people are reading his posts looking for evidence to support your "Steerpike is just some A-hole troll" hypothesis instead of taking them as they are and trying to find the value in them. He will often challenge a point that another person has made, yes. He will be blunt about it, yes. Could he exercise a bit more discretion in how he words posts wherein he challenges someone's point? Yes. Should he? Debatable. At any rate, challenging a point does not, I repeat, NOT equate to personally attacking someone.

    Let me reiterate: A PERSON CHALLENGING A POINT YOU HAVE MADE DOES NOT MEAN THEY ARE ATTACKING WHO YOU ARE AS A PERSON Seriously.

    ^If there were some way to make that appear as a giant glowing neon sign with volcanoes erupting out the top I would do it. I can not emphasize this enough. I just can't. Notice the purple? Emphasis.

    I see countless people taking challenged points personally and it doesn't get them anywhere. Lets talk like grown ups please. Derailing threads so we can call one another douche bags on the interwebs isn't going to make us any better at magic. Intellectual discussions, on the other hand, just might get us somewhere.
     
  17. #97 Luis Vega, Nov 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 16, 2010
    Oh there is a reason!! is because the staff doesn´t care about you...as you said sometimes before..."Who are you and Why should I give a ****?" have a nice day!!

    I agree...at some degree...I don´t like that 95% of the time he just insult and only 5% of the time he gives advice...as I said before, I wouldn´t mind the attitude only if after the verbal abuse he will give advice instead of the words he likes to say...

    anyway...let´s continue on topic, as you said before, there is no point on discuss this things here...
     
  18. Yes...I completely agree...a lot of magicians say what you should and what you shouldn´t, but if something or your style works for you in your environment then you should continue doing it if you are getting what you want...
     
  19. I agree, but it really needs to be a special ocasion for something like that to go by. But if you base your whole performance and character on challenging others, then those special moments are going to be seldom. Not to mention if you are payed to perform magic, and all you can do is try to challenge audience to catch you. And if you do that, eventually they will, and that is not a pleasant moment.
    If you present yourself and your magic as warm, entertaining and fun experience, even if you flash or mess up, audience is more likely to forgive you or not even mention it to you. But if you present your magic as a challenge, and your audience catch you, they will not let you forget it.
     
  20. Hmmm..... Maybe this will help.
     

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