What do you think?

Mar 29, 2008
882
3
Not exactly. Everything I've ever said about you has been in direct result of your own words. I've called you aloof, arogant, I've said you appear to talk down to people, and possible are egocentric. Over all from your posts, You do appear to be that way at times.

You have no problems calling someone out if you think your right. Now that someone else is doing it, suddenly it's wrong?

I hardly think someone can make a judgement on how well read I am with out even knowing anything about me. To me, that just seems like name calling.

William - I would say the same thing about you - everything I've ever said about you has been in direct result of your own words. I have taken the time to read a variety of your posts - and content is lacking. You contradict yourself in different threads in concepts and approach. I feel if you had some stronger cornerstones in place, your own arrogance would at least be proceded by some actual strong advice.

I know enough about you to know that you appear to have a chip on your shoulder, and you desperately want to be considered more intelligent on the topic of magic than you really are.

It is not name calling William - I just don't agree with much you say. The difference between Steerpike and you - you want to be right when you write something, Steerpike IS right. I don't say that because I like him, I say it because it is true.

Kinda like listen twice as much as you talk - I would say read twice as much as your write. Honestly, I do - and I write a lot.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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At this point, though, we're moving into the part that is at the performer's discretion--it's tough to make blanket statements here. For some people, such a presentation will be practical; for most, though, it will not be.

Agreed. There are always special cases where the unexpected comes through in a big way. The over-arcing point I think we both agree on is that it's essential for a magician to continually ask himself, "Is this effect really the best for this routine/performance?" Most often, experience will show you that the simpler answer is often better, though on occasion you'll find use for something different.

I don't see those as contradictory, but rather as recognizing that this is a legitimately complex issue: it is a life's task to figure out when you need to work harder and when you're working too hard.

Exactly. To put a rather obtuse point on it, I reference one of my favorite quotes from Spinal Tap. "There's a fine line between clever and stupid."
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
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There is a wizard who cloaks his mysteries in a pseudo-shroud of impenetrable darkness. He is the Merlin who nudges the occult in his performances, who wishes his audiences to believe, if ever so little, that he possesses powers not granted to the rest of the world - he is one of the pseudo-mentalists, soothsayers and pryers-into-the-future. Convincingly done, this sort of thing is an art in itself and, as in the case of the humorous magician, it is an art in which no instruction can be given. If you possess the personal magnetism which would enable you to sell racoon coats in Death Valley, you may be such a magician. This type of presentation does not readily lend itself to general magic of the type under discussion, and it is even more difficult to present card magic in this métier. (Few alive) can say “Take a card!” and still convince his spectators that fairies and goblins perch on his shoulder.

As per the original topic - here are my feelings and thoughts:

I don't think many CAN pull this type of character off - convincing people that your "tricks" (especially when you are doing flourishes with Tiger decks) are inspired by "powers not granted to the rest of the world". I think that some can pull it off, but the question is - does it match your personality. If you are the type of guy that listens to NIN, wears eye liner, black clothing and are young...maybe you can convince your friends that you cast a spell on yourself that granted you access to a demonic world.

However, in adult land, I find this character limiting...at least for me...I enjoy having a life. One where I don't have to contradict my actual personality. I am an outgoing, professional, and intelligent guy - nothing about me speaks to demons or goblins.

The point of this post was to show that your character choice SHOULD MATCH YOUR CHARACTER! Too often, I see guys crackin jokes doing Thread or being serious doing a sponge ball routine (yeah, I brought it up again). These things, if you realize it or not, often conflict with your character...you just don't want to admit it, because you don't want to see it.

If you are pulling these things off...your character is not that which Hugard speaks of. As, NOBODY thinks sponge balls would be from "goblins and fairies" be perched on your shoulder, but perhaps very good sleight of hand.

I think we would all be MUCH better at what we did, if we realized that the majority of people realize what we do are "tricks" - but, it is you that can make it "magic". If you can pull this character off, then your audience may have the conviction people get from mentalists - but if not, you magic is your personality combined with your effects.

Make sure they don't contridict each other, as the only person you may be fooling - with what you THINK you are delivering versus what people think you ACTUALLY are delivering - is yourself.
 
Morgician:

What can I say to right now in the midst of everthing that has already been said? I guess I'll just take this point for point and pray that either this thread manages to get back on topic and away from personal mudslinging, or a mod shuts it down for running its course.

As for your psychoanalasys of me up above I frankly don't care. Chances are good I'll never meet you, and I can live with your opinion on me. You're certainly entitled to one.

Advice is like butt holes. Everyone has one, and they all stink. I know I'm not an exception. It's a free forum, and I'm free to give my advice. I never incist that someone takes it. Just like everyone else, I'm just another flavor of text put to a computer drawn from my own experiences.

I may not be well read, I may not be the encyclopedia of magica like Max Mavin is, I may not even be the next magic phillospher here on this forum, but I've been around the block. I've done my fair share of performing. I've been at the bottom and I'm on my way to the top. I've made mistakes, and I've learned from the best. I may not be able to quote obscure referances from books written decades ago, but what I say comes from two places. My heart and my experience. If that's not good enough for you (any of you) then so be it. But that's how I am. I come with a "take it or leave it" tag.

I don't agree with the arrogance thing. I don't see myself as such. Huberous I'd buy. That I'm at least guilty of, though I try my hardest to not be.

Steerpike, steerpike. Oh how do I say this. Steer has his moments of good points. If I can muscle past his blunt almost acostic delivery, I can usually agree with something he says. With that being said, I'm glad I'm not like Steer. I prefer to be myself anyways. I never ask for anyones approval for anything and in the end of the day if I go to bed with no more friends or "props" here than I had when I logged on then I can go to bed happy. Fact is: I probably love magic more than I will love anyone else here and it's for that reason alone why I feel I should put myself out there on these threads and leave my words on these pages.

I don't have a chip on my shoulder. I'm just opinionated, and vocal about it. Thats all.

I can logically understand you may not have been attempting to attack me with your other post, but please understand that isn't how I feel about it.

For the sake of this thread, not that it's not beaten to death as is, I welcome any further attacks or comments on me as an individual in the form of private messages.
 
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Mar 29, 2008
882
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Fact is: I probably love magic more than I will love anyone else here and it's for that reason alone why I feel I should put myself out there on these threads and leave my words on these pages.

Then go do magic, and stop posting - as I think Steerpike and I love magic enough to care about those that want to care about it, and are not sure how to treat it well. Consider our approach the type of intervention needed when someone is abusing drugs...but instead of drugs, read magic.

I understand where you are coming from....but I also noticed that you only address my post to you...not the following one that dealt with content of this post. Look above visualartists, who is right...the people who need this, are lost somewhere else.

If only some controversial person could create buzz on this thread to make those who love or hate him read it...I am not that person, William you aren't either...

Enter stage left...Steerpike.

So William - seems like you read my comments regarding you, but ignored my attempt to get the thread back on track...in which you decided to gutter the thread more....then ask to get it back on track? I will never understand your motivation.

So - if you really want this back on track - would you mind writing something of substance on my last post?
 
Nov 15, 2007
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Raleigh, NC
-takes in a deep breath-

The first time I read this tread it was late and I didn't have time to answer. Now that I see it again, and have caught up more or less, I guess my thoughts may count towards something.

I find myself in a mix of figuring out who I am versus who I want to be in magic. Both identities are true to myself, but differ in presentation. I'm slowly moving away from the technical sleight of hand and towards the mentalism/pk side of magic.

The difference in 'character' is how serious I become during performances. When doing a card, coin, or sponge ball routine I find time to ad-lib humor into the effect or routine. I've had my entire life to practice comedic timing and in real-world situations I'm getting better every day.

When doing mind reading or pk I lean towards a more serious attitude. In everyday life I am both a jester and a philosopher in my group of friends, and I transition from jokes to serious conversation ever day. My magic is similar and this brings me to my original statement.

I find myself in a mix of figuring out who I am while striving towards the magician I want to be.
The kicker, as if you didn't guess:
I love performing both forms of magic and while I can't perform sponge balls and cards as seriously as I do when I read minds or delve into the 'darker arts' of magic I do enjoy performing them all.

My bookshelf is a reference to this, on the shelf I just started I have the 4 books in the Nigh****ch series, The Pig that Wants to be Eaten, and Letters from a Nut. Fiction, philosophy, and one of the funniest book ever put together.

Anyway, I feel like this is just me rambling my thoughts in order to come closer to who I will be as a magician.

Don't misread the post, I know who I am and what I need to do to make an entertaining and amazing performance with any of the selected materials. I just can't figure out if I should create the divide or continue with my split decision magic.

-Rik
 
Mar 29, 2008
882
3
This is my advice.

Put the cards and mentalism down - stop doing it. Go out, meet people - when you meet people, without hiding behind props, who are you? This is who you need to find to be better at magic. Unless, you WANT to play a character, then write down what it is that character would do in certain situations. Get a grasp on that side of "you", and stay true.

It seems like you took the past of least resistance with what persona helps you sell the magic in those "branches", rather than what persona best sells YOU. Laugher makes magic easy to swallow, as it allow for misdirection, while it is easier for people to believe in mentalism if you are serious. Try reversing them, and you may find it challenging...so I challenge you to do that too.

I hope this helps, but the best advice you can ever get - be yourself. I know it is cliche, but it is one of the true ones. If you DO decide to be a character, take acting classes - it will help. Learn to improvise either way, and you will find yourself more at ease. Often, acting classes can help you understand who you are....or, you can just accept yourself, and know who you are...no acting classes required.

Really, you don't have to make a "choice", but it is like asking what should I do...be a serious lawyer, and a funny juggler...or pick one style? There is no right or wrong - but again, it may be best to go with who YOU are, rather than what the style demands.

Good post - really, hope the above helped.
 
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Lex

Dec 18, 2007
51
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Chicago, IL
I find myself in a mix of figuring out who I am versus who I want to be in magic. Both identities are true to myself, but differ in presentation.

I think what Morgician had to say is quite good, so I'm going to say more or less the same thing, but in a different key. Sometimes hearing the same thing from different people in different ways can help spark ideas.

Consider that both identities are "you," no choice necessary. You are someone's son, and someone's friend--at the same time. If you are in a room with both a parent and a friend, then you even have to play both roles simultaneously.

Human personalities are complicated gimmicks. They have both depth, in the sense of many layers, and complexity, in the sense of many parts. And you can't download them.

The trick, once you get to the point of presentation, though, is presenting different parts or aspects faithfully, perhaps even as part of a whole (the "be yourself" advice).

To be yourself, you must know yourself--gnothi seauton, nosce te ipsum, etc. What is the "you" that unites both the pasteboard clown and the PK grimmer? Maybe play with that one for a bit and see what you come up with. Betcha there's something there to work with.

In everyday life I am both a jester and a philosopher in my group of friends, and I transition from jokes to serious conversation ever day.

I think you already have your answer; you just need to untangle it.

I like Morgician's idea of switching the techniques between the two personas, or at least not identifying the technique as strongly with the persona. If you're inclined, I would also suggest checking out Plato's Gorgias, but read for the personalities, not the content. Socrates is portrayed as a bumbling fool and the most original philosopher of his time. How did he pull it off?
 
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