What Happened to the Classics?

[LuseifHo]

Although this has appeared in most people's minds, it kind of just hit me hard and made me think about it.
Where are all the classics and oldies?
I have seen many threads and questions of people asking about a trick they saw or showing people a routine they saw. But the thing is, these are all classics of magic and is (was?) pretty well known.
I just kind of died a bit insided when I noticed not only 1 or 2 people not knowing, but a whole bunch of them, not knowing the classics such as the Card Stab, Sam the Bellhop, the Swami Gimmick, etc.
I know that some of you are new to magic and all, but I have only met atound 20 people who really remember the old stuff and still enjoy dicussing it.

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Ahh, my friend, times are changing.
Spectators still love the old tricks, but us magicians have high demand for for unworkable visual crap, which is only bought because of a preview video with lots of editing and loud music.

 

[praetoritevong]

Sadly, statements such as "From x's own repertoire" and "Developed" no longer mean a lifetime's work on material. Very good question sciffydof.

I question, for example, how many people know who created "The Queens" effect which is so popular nowadays? (Don't say it if you do know - let them look it up themselves!)

If there's one thing I can't wait to do (limited only by the amount of stuff I already have to study), it's studying classic masters such as Bertram.

 

[TheKingOfCards]

I'd have to say I think the vast majority of people here on Theory 11 don't know who we are referring to when we say Doc, or The Professor, and god forbid if we say Vernon. But yeah, I've always been into Marlo, Vernon, Carney, Ackerman, Green, Erdnase, Colombini, ORTIZ. So yeah, i believe a lot of crazy classics came from these men and it's quite a shame that other 16 year olds do not have access or aptitude for this older material. I just listed a few names, but you know what I mean. There are those like us who search up names, do homework, and go to lectures. We read to the end of the world and are constantly grabbing at manuscripts and stuff as it pops up, much as I did when the Annotated Erdnase came out.

Nowadays I only see people hyping about videos from T11, Penguin, or Ellusionist, which is really sad. I would think there would be more variety out there. For example, James Brown from the UK.... GREAT stuff, but sadly he's not well known within "this" community of magicians. His boxclever and coin routine are amazing.

I'm really ranting right about now, but this topic is pretty important to me. We should emphasize a recycling of the "old" because the old is the new, and the new is the old, it's all cyclic. To be an accomplished magician, one should definitely try to learn as much "old" stuff as possible.

ALSO, please contribute to the cerca trova topic of the month. It's about this stuff, the "old" and "new" generations of magic, so I think you'd all enjoy writing about that thoroughly haha!

 

[praetoritevong]

King - I completely agree and would simply like to add that it's shocking how the average young magician's knowledge of magic extends only (or perhaps better put, is limited) to Ellusionist, Theory11, and Penguin. Case in point: The Gecko. What the plague is the Gecko? Then, E stocks it, and everyone's talking about the bloody thing.

 

[TheKingOfCards]

I've always though the blooody thing was farfetched haha. God, if I realllllly wanted to look like I had Parkinson's and was a seizure patient (no offense intended whatsoever), then I would perform this. I'm just saying this cause the man shakes like crazy and looks so awkward when performing this. I always make my own gimmicks to prove that I never have to buy anything, and so far I've made my own full-fledged Gecko, Gecko-lite, and Extractor gimmicks. But honestly, I think I will stick to traditional stuff and methods.

 

[houchini]

Well, I think the main issue with the classics (and classic guys) is that their material is often only available in books, sometimes in VHS... And most of the young people (this doesn't applies only to magic) prefers to watch a DVD rather than open a book, and honestly I think it's understandable somehow. Filmed instruction a much more comprehensible than written text, and I'm sure that there are better sources nowadays to learn the houdini/erdnase change than Erdnase's books !

When you're new to magic, and you're given the choice between a book "packed with material", containing "enough stuff to keep you working for years to come" (like expert at the card table), and a beginners DVD which focuses on a few essential sleights and a few hard hitting routines (like Born to perform), I guess the choice is easy.

I think however that the truly concerned magicians are soon enough eager to learn more, to focus maybe on the history of the things they're doing...And at that time I'm sure they go "back to basics". That's the reason I bought 13 steps only recently, and books like "Strong Magic".

I don't think the classics are dead for I think that people who really do care about their magic (and Magic) will always want to learn from those legends.

 

[Dima]

I have to agree with has been said.

I don't think it is much of a problem though. Everyone who is only thinking about "what's new and visual" will only stay at that level of magic. Same applies to people who disregard books/articles/essays on misdirection and presentation. They will never find the key to "real" magic unless they commit themselves and seek further.

I say let them perform E's coin to bottles and "Gaff Deck 7" tricks and let me amaze audiences with Twisting the Aces.

I also find it strange as there is an incredible amount of magic that has been perfected for years by Vernon, Marlo, Elmsley, Ascanio, Kaps and many many others. For me it just seems like better value.

 

[TeeDee]

I used to get annoyed by ignorance, but, to be perfectly honest, I quite like the fact that a lot of young magicians can't be bothered to read and research. It means that there are vast swathes of sleights and effects that are only available to those of us willing to put the effort in. True innovation has only ever come from those with a solid grounding in the history and fundamentals, but if the new kids on the block just want to learn a few tricks, then that's absolutely fine.

 

[manks123]

I don't think it is much of a problem though. Everyone who is only thinking about "what's new and visual" will only stay at that level of magic. Same applies to people who disregard books/articles/essays on misdirection and presentation. They will never find the key to "real" magic unless they commit themselves and seek further.

I agree with this, because it reminds me of the famous quote:

"The man who travels with the crowd will only get as far as the crowd
But the man who strives alone will go further than any man has gone before"

:://manks

 

[jok3r]

Well, I think the main issue with the classics (and classic guys) is that their material is often only available in books, sometimes in VHS... And most of the young people (this doesn't applies only to magic) prefers to watch a DVD rather than open a book, and honestly I think it's understandable somehow. Filmed instruction a much more comprehensible than written text, and I'm sure that there are better sources nowadays to learn the houdini/erdnase change than Erdnase's books !

When you're new to magic, and you're given the choice between a book "packed with material", containing "enough stuff to keep you working for years to come" (like expert at the card table), and a beginners DVD which focuses on a few essential sleights and a few hard hitting routines (like Born to perform), I guess the choice is easy.

I think however that the truly concerned magicians are soon enough eager to learn more, to focus maybe on the history of the things they're doing...And at that time I'm sure they go "back to basics". That's the reason I bought 13 steps only recently, and books like "Strong Magic".

I don't think the classics are dead for I think that people who really do care about their magic (and Magic) will always want to learn from those legends.

Thats pretty much how i feel, i dont know where to find nor do i have the money to buy these classic books. I would love to learn from the classics, but for now i cant so i learned from what i could get my hands on. DVD's are easier to learn from, but there only so much information in these dvds.

 

[visualartist]

Thatd be a slap to the face of magic if they didnt know vernon.
But pretty soon us young'uns will be the old farts and the queens trick and Dan Hauss will be the
Classics for us and those new magicians will have their own brand new creators and heroes in magic..

 

[TeeDee]

Thats pretty much how i feel, i dont know where to find nor do i have the money to buy these classic books. I would love to learn from the classics, but for now i cant so i learned from what i could get my hands on. DVD's are easier to learn from, but there only so much information in these dvds.

You could start with the modern paperback editions of Royal Road, Erdnase, Expert Card Technique, Card Manipulations, More Card Manipulations and Card Control. Have a look at the Gambler's Book Club website where you can pick up a load of paperback editions of classic texts pretty cheaply. Also, you could see Lybrary.com. Personally I like having paper copies of stuff, but they do good PDF versions of hundreds of classic and rare books for a good price.

 

[praetoritevong]

The stuff TeeDee suggested is great, and cheap - I picked up those things for around $15 each AUD.

I do agree with the posts above though that basically said I'm happy for people to not learn about magic and waste their time at the same beginner level... I'll study Vernon and Ascanio etc.

 

[jok3r]

You could start with the modern paperback editions of Royal Road, Erdnase, Expert Card Technique, Card Manipulations, More Card Manipulations and Card Control. Have a look at the Gambler's Book Club website where you can pick up a load of paperback editions of classic texts pretty cheaply. Also, you could see Lybrary.com. Personally I like having paper copies of stuff, but they do good PDF versions of hundreds of classic and rare books for a good price.

wow that helps alot, haha.

thanks for the info, i gota check that stuff out

 

[The Tumbleweed]

Who's Vernon???

I'm joking guys.
My Vernon knowledge could beat you at paintball, it's just that good.

 

[praetoritevong]

I heard he was a professor of psychology (probably amongst other things).

 

[Shanku]

I'll bet over half the people here thinks Vernon is American...

...anyway, enough of that - off to study the classics.

 

[The Tumbleweed]

I heard he was a professor of psychology (probably amongst other things).

Yep that's who I meant

 

[LuseifHo]

thanks guys for all your opinions
I agree with all of you.
like how often do you find the names of classics come up in forums like this? Like Vernon, Carney, Ramsey, Bobo, Williamson, Bebel, Ammar (there still is but wtvr), Cornelius, Ackerman, etc. All these people only live in the minds of the ones who really search out the meaning of magic.
What I don't get is how people start off in magic. Some people start off in Penguin or Ellusionist, but I started with Royal Road, just 3 years ago, and it seems that it has done me better than if i had started with Crash Course or something.
One day, if someone says "hey guys, what happened to the classics? Brad Christian, Adam Grace, James Coats, and Eric James?" I might just go kill myself.