What Is Wrong With Magic as an Art Today...

[sleestak]

I think if you tell someone you are in a band and play an instrument that garners more respect than magic. Probably because people have been bombarded with "magic is easy once you know the secret" and the various Worlds easiest card trick books at the mall's bookstore. For some reason people see the later of the two as true yet if they were to pick up a guitar playing is easy book they would take one look and decide hmmmm... that doesn't look so easy. Although there is a double edge sword there for without those books who knows who may have never been bitten by the magic bug as they say.

I also think it has to do with the respect we show the leaders in our art and by leaders I mean those who are in the public eye. If you ask a layperson who are the top magicians today Blaine, Angel, and maybe Copperfield will probably be the top three answers. Yet there is a humongous lack of respect and downright contempt for most of them in the magic community. I don't think that happens in other arts you don't see painters trashing Picasso.

 

[UnholyGodn]

I see that many magicians don't see magic as an art because people don't accept it as an art. People publically accept musicians and painters as artists, so they can go "I am an artist" and people will agree with them. If a magician says "I am an artist" most people will laugh. I see this problem due to a few things.

Firstly, magicians aren't actually artists if you just perform other peoples tricks all the time. Painters learn the basic techniques (In our case, sleights) and then they develop these skills and make their own style and create their own artwork. While some bands cover other songs (The same as a magician using non original material) it's the bands that do things people haven't heard before that really succeed. Most people think magicians are just people with too much time on their hands, and learn things off the internet (If you tell them you pay for it, they probably think you're even more ridiculous)

Laymen love Criss Angel and David Blaine because they show people things that they've never seen before. Albeit, they have people creating these tricks for them, but a comparison could be drawn to bands that don't write their own songs, but the material is still original, that's what adds the artistic quality.

Exposure is not hurting magic, it's getting the public involved. Paintings and music are everywhere, people hang art in their houses, or listen to music everyday for their enjoyment. Magic however relies on being selective to avoid being overwashed and losing the excitement and surprise that magic provides.

The problem here is, magic garners a different reaction from people than painting or music. While paintings or music can be interpreted, magic really can't. Magicians are more entertainers than artists, magic is for the show, for the reaction. While you make the most amazing sleight, if the trick doesn't get a reaction, the magic has failed. Music and Paintwork can be appreciated personally, they don't need the painter around.

Rather than seeing why magic isn't accepted as an art (I'm not saying it isn't) we should decide why it should be considered an art. What artistic qualities does it have? Why is a magician more artistic than a comedian? Is it merely the lack of props?

 

[richard]

Interesting. But how do we get "more people to believe in magic?" We can't possible blame the audience for seeing or figuring out how a trick is done. Isn't it our job to make them believe? Doesn't that responsibility fall on our shoulders as the artists?

I'd guess there's something to not acting like a magician? Be a regular person, who doesn't act surprised about what happened. Who acts as if it's natural. They're not out to confuse people, they seek understanding and wonder why nobody else can do it. At that point I think it might become hard to do things with a deck of cards. I think maybe, in terms of magic, cards might be a bit cliche depending on what you do with them. If you do a full routine with cards I think it's pretty clear you're not doing true magic though you're still doing something pretty damn impressive.

Maybe people are so familiar with people acting like magicians -- being on the street, possibly followed by a camera... it makes it seem commercial (I guess depending on your camera crew), or the popular example, common tricks like spongeballs and silks which I think you would hardly bother with if you were doing true magic. I think if I saw somebody who didn't act like a magician, not acting as if something supernatural were happening, but just something that was totally regular in their lives. Maybe that would be something?

But hey -- I'm not a magician (Or a magician who pretends not to be a magician... or... ah well )

 

[AceOfSpades2662]

Well some people just dont understand it its the same thing as dance or art or performing arts. Like some people make fun of me with my flourishes or magic. They say things like "wow you sit in your basement practicing this stuff." and i reply by saying "yes actually i do its the same thing as you practicing a sport or anything some people just dont understand what we (as magicians) are about. I would just like another suggestion on how to handle a situation like that. or other people are impressed by it. I think some people might be jealous but im not sure.
Thanks,
Michael

 

[DavidMisner]

All right guys - I have my opinions of this, but I want to know what you guys think: How much of the perception that magic is not respected as an art - is in our own heads? How much of it is us playing the part of the starving, underdog, misunderstood artist?

We have all had the experience of telling someone what we do for a living & having them ask "OK but what's your day job?" We've all been laughed at (to one degree or another) for being a magician... but what about a musician?

If someone were to ask you what you do for a living & you were to answer "I'm a musician - I play in a band" or "I'm an artist" - In general, would they take you seriously? I know that we all have that perception of the struggling artist/musician - does our perception affect their art negatively?

Once again I think this case falls back on the subject of magic not being respected as an art. People think of magic as more of a children's hobby than a full time career. I think this is hard for some people to understand because our (the magician's) minds work differently on the subject of magic. We see it as an art, and at the same time many people do not take us seriously. Again, over time magic has been shot down because, mainly, of SCIENCE. In the Victorian Era, many of our general knowledge nowadays had not been discovered, so magic was never actually "fake" to people. They had, in their minds, the possibility of this REALLY happening. I'm not hating on science, but I believe that it is a main source of pressure towards magic to come up with something that has not been disproved or thought of.
dM

 

[waynehouchin]

Firstly, magicians aren't actually artists if you just perform other peoples tricks all the time.

Ahh. But what about the concert pianist who travels the world playing Beethoven, Mozart & Bach... Is he not an artist? I don't believe that performing original material is a requirement to being an artist.

 

[lux-ferre]

My thoughts:

In our world today, even NON-MAGICIANS and magicians alike perform magic just to impress. Once again, exposure comes into play. These people perform the trick but never really work on presenting it. I have seen several people saying "Look, I can do magic!" then they perform some crappy trick or make a poor performance of a good one, leading to further exposure. Sometimes they even teach the trick right after.
Magic is no longer seen as an art because it is made fun of. It is disrespected and ridiculed. The secrets have been made more important than the presentation and the art. It has become a challenge for both laymen and new magicians alike to know as many secrets as possible and bragging them to society.
How do we solve this? Here is what I think. If you have no respect for the art and you don’t plan on ever doing so, leave the magic scene to the passionate ones. In other words, don’t perform anything without being 110% sure that you see magic as an art and to be respected. If you truly see it this way, you will realize that you will never perform illusions until they are perfected. The secret to showing the world what magic is really like is to perfect the art. Only through perfecting the art of magic can it be seen as an art by others.

 

[JustinClark]

All right guys - I have my opinions of this, but I want to know what you guys think: How much of the perception that magic is not respected as an art - is in our own heads? How much of it is us playing the part of the starving, underdog, misunderstood artist?

We have all had the experience of telling someone what we do for a living & having them ask "OK but what's your day job?" We've all been laughed at (to one degree or another) for being a magician... but what about a musician?

If someone were to ask you what you do for a living & you were to answer "I'm a musician - I play in a band" or "I'm an artist" - In general, would they take you seriously? I know that we all have that perception of the struggling artist/musician - does our perception affect their art negatively?

Good question. Without too much deep thought, this is what I think.
It may mostly be jealousy. Think about it, who wouldnt want to be a famous musician, artist, dancer, magician etc. Not only is it different but it takes serious talent. When people meet someone ( who probably isnt famous to them) who performs an art for a living, its hard to believe. They think," Ok, so you have a hobby, what do you do for a LIVING?" Thinking that it is mostly impossible to make a living out of magic (or any art) without being famous( to them). When you proceed to tell them that youre serious they become jealous (unconsciously) and find it difficult to take you serious because ' if youre that great why dont you have a show like Blaine or Angel?'. Think about it, you hear people talk about how amazing Blaine and Angel are but have no idea that there are an entire community behind these guys. So pretty much I think that it has to do with (unconscious) jealousy and the fact that the general public have an obsession with celebrities and dont give a second thought to 'normal' people other than themselves.

 

[y2john]

It's very hard to pin point exactly what is wrong with our art today as it could be many things.

Some people when they think of magician tend to imagine some animated character on stage with big colourful props etc, cracking jokes and pulling rabbits out of hats (not that there's anything wrong with this... but it's not for me). Now personally I think we need to get away from all that and truly bring the magic to the people.
Now I know we do this already but it seems that some are more interested in looking cool and having everyone adore them than actually entertaining and giving them that moment of amazement.
Remember why we love magic and the feeling we had/have while experiencing it... well thats what we want everyone to experience.

Exposure is a big problem with people seemingly willing to give away the secrets that we utilise in return for trying to look smart, look cool and get good comments from other members of the sites.

Innovation is something we need as what was stated earlier in this thread is true, everyone is performing the same effects with the same presentation etc etc.
Everyone is an individual and we need to put ourselved into our effects/performances and give the specs something different.

It's true that the secrets of magic are much more easily accessible now, but I can't really complain about that as if this was not the case then maybe I would have never been able to be apart of this art (well except from the old Paul Daniels sets or Marvins Magic lol).

We can't blame our audiences for the lack of respect and how we are percieved, and it's down to us to change there perception and alter there vision of what being an illusionist/magician/mentalist is.
It's more to do with those who are apart of magic and don't take it seriously, don't respect the hard work and effort that goes into, and don't perform there magic to there full capabilities that are in part the cause.
How can laymen respect our art when those involved do not?

You don't need to dress up and act like a clown etc, truly connecting with the audience is far more important and laughs and jokes will come on there own.

Im not against the old style of magic but feel that it's time for a change.
It's all fine and well making people laugh and looking like a joke but I want people to experience true astonishment and awe, to forget whats possible or not and to, even if it's only for a moment, believe.

Just my opinion.

 

[UnholyGodn]

Ahh. But what about the concert pianist who travels the world playing Beethoven, Mozart & Bach... Is he not an artist? I don't believe that performing original material is a requirement to being an artist.

I am of course talking in generalities in the mind of those watching the magic. Some people would not consider someone that plays Beethoven or Mozart as artists as they are merely copying someone else's work. Sure they are a good pianist and that takes a skill, it doesn't make them an artist.

 

[waynehouchin]

Good question. Without too much deep thought, this is what I think.
It may mostly be jealousy. Think about it, who wouldnt want to be a famous musician, artist, dancer, magician etc. Not only is it different but it takes serious talent. When people meet someone ( who probably isnt famous to them) who performs an art for a living, its hard to believe. They think," Ok, so you have a hobby, what do you do for a LIVING?" Thinking that it is mostly impossible to make a living out of magic (or any art) without being famous( to them). When you proceed to tell them that youre serious they become jealous (unconsciously) and find it difficult to take you serious because ' if youre that great why dont you have a show like Blaine or Angel?'. Think about it, you hear people talk about how amazing Blaine and Angel are but have no idea that there are an entire community behind these guys. So pretty much I think that it has to do with (unconscious) jealousy and the fact that the general public have an obsession with celebrities and dont give a second thought to 'normal' people other than themselves.

Great post! You make an EXCELLENT observation. We DO live in a society that is obsessed with celebrity & that does have an impact.

 

[Jonas]

Personally, I think the art is moving so slowly forward since people only try to create out of what they already have. If you have 2 colors, you might think of what paintings you can paint using those 2 colors. The other way around would be to ignore the tools you have and think about what you'd like to do, then get the tools necessary to do it.

One interesting topic I found on The Magic Cafe that was on the right track was basically a "Solve everyday-problems with magic"-topic. If we really could do magic, we wouldn't be shuffling cards face to face. I guess it's hard to apply to card-magic though since there's not a lot of everyday-problems to be solved within cards (maybe except winning games, heh.), but I still liked the thinking.

Anyway, I think that's the reason why we have a myriad of ways to perform Ambitious card, dozens^dozens ways of making 2 cards transpose and more ways to visually change the identity of a card than [insert comparation here].

But that's just my food-coupons.

 

[jonraiker]

I'm going to touch on a number of factors that come into play:

...on Mocking & Presentation

Honestly, I've never had an issue with this. Sure, you get the occasional heckler -- but isn't this true in every art form? You don't think Da Vinci ever got laughed at during his early stages? You don't think anyone's ever called a Warhol piece stupid? Honestly guys, more people respect and want to see magic than you'd like to think. I can't even walk into my barbershop without everyone in there wanting to see me "do something crazy".

If you can get your audience to respect what you're doing by presenting everything in the way it should be presented; by truly touching them; then mocking, laughing, and ridiculing will never be a factor. Never. And if you do get the occasional big mouth, you'll notice your audience -- those that enjoy what you're doing -- will single them out and take care of the situation for you. Don't be cocky. Don't be Mr. Big Shot. Be yourself. Bring emotions and feelings into play, because this is the only way you're audience can relate to what you're doing.

Don't say: "Think of a number. Your number is 7."
Say: "Think of a number. Really see it large in your mind. Keep saying it over and over again in your head. Can I see your hand? [touch their hand lightly] I want you to tell me everything, but say nothing. Scream it to me, but say nothing. Come on. Send it to me. You're nervous, but you don't have to be. It's okay. [close your eyes]... It was 7."

Look through them. Look into their eyes as if you're looking into their soul. That can really make all the difference. You've connected with them on a level no one else in the world could. That, to them, is amazing.

...on Exposure

Here's the solution... are you ready for it? BE ORIGINAL. BE CREATIVE. That's all there is to it. I've performed an unoriginal Ambitious Card routine and immediately had someone scream out what I was doing. Literally five minutes later, I performed a completely original piece that utilized that same basic "move" and the same guy was completely blown away. All they know is what they saw on YouTube. Everything else is new to them.

...on Bad Magicians

I think this has a large effect on magic as a whole. Think about this:

SITUATION 1
A middle-aged man performing tricks with dirty sponge balls at your local Applebees. He approaches your table while you're in the middle of conversation and screams, "Hey guys! Want to see some damn good illusions?" One of his sponge balls falls into your soup. You can't help but notice his flashing button that reads "I Work For TIP$." Blink. Blink. Blink. Jeeze, that's annoying. When is he going to go away? That tie... is he serious?

SITUATION 2
A man approaches your table wearing a fitted suit. He smells fantastic, and is obviously well groomed. "How's the soup?" Fair enough question. You reply. He talks for a minute or so -- friendly conversation -- then asks if he can join you guys for a moment. You oblige. You find yourself talking about a woman in the Netherlands who claimed she could see into a person's soul... see their every thought visually in her head. You think you read something about this online somewhere, so you give your input. He asks if he can try something, and you allow him. [insert amazing effect here] You're blown away. You want him to stay and show you more!

Like I said, that can make all the difference. SITUATION 1 is a true story, only it was at Red Lobster. It's tragic when even a fellow magician doesn't respect what you do.

I have many thoughts on this, so I'll post more when I get a sec or two. What do you guys think?

 

[Miles_of_Magic]

The Blame lies with us

We are to blame for our situation. What I mean by this is : A new artist does not go out and represent his first painting as a master piece and sell it for millions of dollars. Yet I see newbie magicians presenting themselves as having “magic powers” and totally destroying an effect. Also, when you carbon copy another magician, is it still art?

With a multitude of David Blaine wannabe’s who do everything they can to be JUST LIKE HIM, and yet do not perform to perfection, or even spend just a little bit of time developing their own personalities while performing, how can we even ask “what is wrong?” It is smacking us right in the face with every half-cocked run-of-the mill ACR.

We ( the magic community) need to do more in the way of helping the next generation to develop personal creativity. Wayne, you above everyone else should not only recognize, but also appreciate the value of originality, not only in creating new magic, but also in performing classic magic.

I reminisce often about the parachute pants of the mid-1980’s. Everyone HAD to have a pair. Within a year that fad died (Thank the fashion Gods). Why, because they were everywhere and people got sick of them. I fear the same may be true with bad magic and under practiced magicians.

That’s my take on it.

Curtis “Miles of Magic”

 

[Carlos Giraldo]

One could probably write pages and pages of criticisms concerning our art and what is right or wrong about it. In the time I've spent discussing this topic with others, I've noticed one particular problem that seems to be at the root of all other grievances expressed by magicians and the like. The problem is the way part of our magic community conducts itself.

In one of the introduction videos posted by Theory11, one of the artists stated that the future of magic is with our young people today. That couldn't be a truer statement. The only problem with this is that our young generation has a need for instant gratification. Because of this, there is no discipline for learning an effect. Books are rarely bought by this demographic because it means they actually have to dedicate quite a bit of study to learn a new effect or sleight instead of just having someone teach it to them via DVD. All the nuances of the effect are spoon-fed to those watching the video, instead of actually learning what works and what doesn't, the way our magical forerunners did. I'm not saying learning from video lessons is bad. I'm saying that too many young people see these videos as shortcuts to learning so they can move on to the latest and greatest, and proceed to never make the effect their own.

Unfortunately, the market is wielding a double-edged sword. While the constant innovation is making magic more amazing and accessible, this same innovation is catering to the need of instant gratification by producing effects that are advertised as “practically self-working” or “little to no sleight-of-hand required,” which, in turn end up being exposed, either accidentally or intentionally, by those who attempt to impress the masses by posting videos of themselves online. These same people can more than likely attest to the fact that they are known to others as “That Guy Who Does Magic” or get stopped on a sidewalk by an acquaintance and asked to “Do that one trick.” This happens because they haven't figured out how to meld the art with who they are.

Most of us aren't taking the time or making the effort to form an identity with our art. You don't have to be perfect at all the different aspects of magic. There is no need for you to be the best card handler, coin master, flourish artist, and mind reader. If they all interest you, great. But learn what it is you want to get out of this art, and then set about doing it. There are loads of magicians and other performers aching to help you find your way. For the majority of us, this art is just a hobby. But for those of us that want to achieve something more, time must be dedicated to forming our identity, and then living it. I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce myself. I personally consider myself an accomplished sleight-of-hand artist. But my true calling is what I have dedicated the last several years of my life to:

My name is Carlos Giraldo, and I am a mentalist.

 

[Ring Master]

Interesting. But how do we get "more people to believe in magic?" We can't possible blame the audience for seeing or figuring out how a trick is done. Isn't it our job to make them believe? Doesn't that responsibility fall on our shoulders as the artists?

Wayne i have the same dissapiontment, people today dont belive, some people when the see a magician they say that i know its not real or u know magic is fake?, i get bummed, but what drives us is the look on their faces of wjen they question for a moment if what they saw is real. What i think today we should do more visulal magic and diffrent magic, not to cofince them, but to make them wounder.

BTW- did u get my pm?

 

[LBarnes]

To the original question "what is wrong with magic as an art today..." maybe it has something to do with things such as modern technology. What I'm trying to say is, in a world where things such as iPod, computers, TV's etc. are being updated all of the time with more impressive and more advanced things to keep the consumer smiling, maybe just a deck of cards and some coins doesn't cut it for laymen these days as it such an old concept i.e. people will always associate magic with cards and coins, where as they will often change their conception of things corresponding with he existing technology.
so maybe magic itself needs an advancement, all thought, I have no idea what that could be, but maybe it needs to progress to something which appeals more to the laymen, instead of just trying to appeal to magicians?.

 

[hawk7]

i'm amazed, there are alot of very good statements here, that really encourages me to participate.

so here's what i think:
the real problem for magic today is an combination of most of the things people already said, i don't believe you can nail it down on a specific factor. i won't go in depth for those again, since there were better posts about it already, but just to name a few

exposure:
exposure always is a problem for magicians, but nowadays it's so easily accessible for everyone (-> youtube). so therefore it becomes vital for the magician to focus on the equally important parts of a trick other than the sleight itself, being misdirection, patter and audience management. the problem with those skills is that they are learned much harder than the trick itself, because you can't get it by practising in front of the mirror for days.

people's view of magic:
here ther are different points i'd like to mention. first, as said before, alot of people think about magic, especially about close-up or street magic, it's kids stuff. second, if you ask someone to name a magician, you will most likely get blaine,criss angel and david copperfield. maybe there are a few others i forgot, but the point is people know magic usually the same way they know wars, through the media. therefore i can understand to a certain point why people say you're a kiddy when you walk up to them with a deck of cards and ask to show them a magic trick, because they only know yeah, real magicians make the statue of liberty disappear or float up a building to the 6th floor. anyway, this last thing crosses with what i would say: people actually don't know what magic looks like and what magicians do. honestly, how many people thought "ok, nothing planned for friday, let's go see a magician". there are so many people that just don't know what to expect from a close-up magician.

ok, i'll just post that and keep thinking for a while...

 

[Diego]

its all awesome but i really dont like all the revealing but besides that i think this is the closest website to original we have.i have the books new magic of japan and five times five japan and i went to japan and i got the dvd magic of japan i found it way more original

here are a few effects i mastered http://youtube.com/watch?v=vftamaM6b5A and i would love to see stuff as original as this

one other thing is that what i see on the market for example 20 coin in bottles all the same none original and the ones that are original aren't practical im hoping to see something on this website witness seems very original and i think that a practical signed coin in sealed bottle would be amazing i have seen one it is called impervious but i dont no if it is practical and if the sight is trust worthy hoping to see one

 

[OwnerM]

I haven't read through all the posts, so if I repeat something someone's said please forgive.

My feeling as a beginning magician but a long time performer in stage hypnosis and comedy improv is this:

MAGICIAN

What did you see?

Unfortunately, most people are stuck with that word as a guy in big flowing cape and a beard pulling fake flowers out of their sleeve. Now lately, there's been Cooperfields, Angles, Blaines and Penn & Tellers trying to change that image, but it takes time and work to do that.

It's the same "feeling" as if I threw out the word "PAINTER" (reaction image: person in a basement with a canvas) or "MUSICIAN" (reaction image: person playing guitar in a subway). Or even FOOTBALL PLAYER (reaction image: big burley guy with little intelligence ready to beat everyone up). Personally, when I tell people I'm a stage hypnotist, the first reaction is "You're not controlling me!!!!"

Please don't take any offense to the above, as I didn't mean any. This is sterotype I'm talking about and although no one is the sterotype as above, (I hope), it's a reaction we all have to the words. Those icons exist. It's a knee-jerk reaction to these words.

As magicians, illusionists or whatever we want to call ourselves we have to show that we are not these icons that everyone expects.

As I stated, there's magicians out there now who are not following that image, but they are the big names that are seen more as "entertainers" than "magicians".

So it's, unfortunately, a mind set we are dealing with. And what we must do, (in my humble little opinion) is to strive beyond the norm. Take what sleights and tricks we know and rethink them. This is a little more than get a trick or sleight, practice, get it right and perform. This is get a trick or sleight, practice, get it right and create something new from it.

People get bored fast. They see a trick and it's over. They may ask for you do a trick agian, but nine times out of ten it's because they're trying to figure it out. If we take what we know and throw ourselves into it, experiment, we can take "old tricks" and make new magic.

The most successful ideas aren't new. Usually, the most successful ideas are old ones but used a different way no one's thought of.

I think sites like E and T11 will help with that. Frankly, I love them both. I've taken tricks from both sites and I'm incorporating them my hypnosis routine. Hopefully, I'll use it for my next performance.

Learn, practice, experiement and don't be afraid to fail and don't be afraid to be yourself.

....I'll get off my soapbox now...