When can revealing be acceptable?

[OwnerM]

There's been a lot of discussion about the Masked Magician. There are plenty of people who dislike him with a more than understandable reason.

But then this got me thinking: (because I don't think I've seen this specific angle on this topic brought up. If I missed it, sorry. It's kinda late for me presently).

What's the difference between the Masked Magician revealing effects and someone like Penn & Teller or Derren Brown doing the same thing?

Penn & Teller made their spot in magic by revealing quite a few of the staples of magic. For example, exposing the whole "Girl in the cut box" thing.

Derren Brown, though he's not as direct has revealed some "mind-tricks" himself. Most of the time, though, he reveals only part of a trick.

I, myself, every time I perform stage hypnosis, I reveal exactly what hypnosis really is.

Can revealing effect ever be acceptable? If so, what's the "line"? When is it acceptable to do so and when is it not? Why?

ETA: this is a little different than being a "good thing" or a "bad thing". What I'm asking is why for example, is the Masked Magician "not acceptable in revealing tricks" whereas Penn & Teller "are acceptable in revealing tricks". What is the difference?




(Now I really don't mean to make this an emotional argument, that's not my goal here. I understand it's a difficult and touchy subject because secrets are the heart and soul of our profession. What I hope to accomplish an intelligent discussion or a debate.)

 

[William Draven]

There's been a lot of discussion about the Masked Magician. There are plenty of people who dislike him with a more than understandable reason.

But then this got me thinking: (because I don't think I've seen this specific angle on this topic brought up. If I missed it, sorry. It's kinda late for me presently).

What's the difference between the Masked Magician revealing effects and someone like Penn & Teller or Derren Brown doing the same thing?

Penn & Teller made their spot in magic by revealing quite a few of the staples of magic. For example, exposing the whole "Girl in the cut box" thing.

Derren Brown, though he's not as direct has revealed some "mind-tricks" himself. Most of the time, though, he reveals only part of a trick.

I, myself, every time I perform stage hypnosis, I reveal exactly what hypnosis really is.

Can revealing effect ever be acceptable? If so, what's the "line"? When is it acceptable to do so and when is it not? Why?

(Now I really don't mean to make this an emotional argument, that's not my goal here. I understand it's a difficult and touchy subject because secrets are the heart and soul of our profession. What I hope to accomplish an intelligent discussion or a debate.)

Oh gods, not another thread. *slams head on desk*

:::EDIT:::
--------------------
After reading the post through once again I found a bit I over looked. I think you have a good question, and I would be pleased to give my answer to it.

The diffrence between what the Masked Magician (aka Valantino) does and say Penn & Teller or Derren Brown is as follows.

The Masked Magician reveals the workings of popular stage and other illusions without the concent of the illusions creators. He often times reveals methods to illusions that are signiture to a specific artist. It's like if you invented a trick, and were known for it, he'd expose A (single) method of how it could be done. You'd probably feel rough about it. Same thing with all the rest of the magic community. Also, there's the subjective arguent over price to be paid for magic. Those illusions he reveals ARE available on the open market. Their blueprints to build them alone often costs several hundred to thousands of dollars. He exposes the workings for free. On national TV. Kind of pisses people off abit.

Now the diffrence between him and the other afromentioned magicians is: P&T and Derren Brown both OWN the effects they expose. Or in the case of P&T they expose part of an effect (say classic cups and balls routine) only to reproduce the effect in a completely diffrent and more impossible way thus fooling the audience again with an amazing and unforseen climax. In other words: Good theater. When you invent the effect you expose, regardless of the market price or questionable ethics involved, at the end of the day it's still YOUR effect.

The Gray area of magic reveals lays with material that is community property. IE: Effects that have been around since time began. Cups and Balls, Linking Rings, Thumb Tips, Ambitious Card, etc. These effects are either so well known or methods so well published that it really gets hard to really point a finger of blame at someone. Sure you ~CAN~ but then again most of these effects are completely covered in childrens magic books given away at cub scout meetings.

Hope that helps.

 

[OwnerM]

Again, I'm not asking if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

I'm asking why one performer it's okay and why another performer it's not.

There's a reason why most magicians here love Penn & Teller and dislike the Masked Magician, yet the both did do reveals. What is the difference?

 

[RikAllen]

Again, I'm not asking if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

I'm asking why one performer it's okay and why another performer it's not.

There's a reason why most magicians here love Penn & Teller and dislike the Masked Magician, yet the both did do reveals. What is the difference?

Now the diffrence between him and the other afromentioned magicians is: P&T and Derren Brown both OWN the effects they expose. Or in the case of P&T they expose part of an effect (say classic cups and balls routine) only to reproduce the effect in a completely diffrent and more impossible way thus fooling the audience again with an amazing and unforseen climax. In other words: Good theater. When you invent the effect you expose, regardless of the market price or questionable ethics involved, at the end of the day it's still YOUR effect.

-Rik

 

[William Draven]

Again, I'm not asking if it's a good thing or a bad thing.

I'm asking why one performer it's okay and why another performer it's not.

There's a reason why most magicians here love Penn & Teller and dislike the Masked Magician, yet the both did do reveals. What is the difference?

See my above post. You probably missed my edit.