Your excuse for not wanting to purchase the dvd but the gimmick is to save a few bucks. However, T11 is a business; people make money out of their creations; you seem to completely neglect the fact that this is how they earn their living. Doesn't it just prove that YOU "are somebody who thinks highly of himself, and less of others" ?
who else doesnt want the dvd?
- Thread starter Phenomena
- Start date
Your excuse for not wanting to purchase the dvd but the gimmick is to save a few bucks. However, T11 is a business; people make money out of their creations; you seem to completely neglect the fact that this is how they earn their living. Doesn't it just prove that YOU "are somebody who thinks highly of himself, and less of others" ?
Those points are very true, and its probably one of the reasons that the gimmick is sold with the DVD and not separately, unless they're replacements.
Cheers,
JTM
When I got my order, I looked at the gimmick, played around with it and had the basic premise down. That doesn't mean that just by practicing it by never watching the DVD that I could later go out and perform it brilliantly.
I watched the dvd and learned LOTS of information from it that ultimately benefited me.
As for the whole "Why buy it when you can make your own?" argument, in my mind it sounds like this:
Why should I buy a cd and support that musician, when I could just illeagaly download it for no cost to me?
Buy the DVD, and support Aaron.
If you just want to buy the gimmick, that's fine, but isn't it better to have advice and the teachings from the person who created the effect, rather than just making it up as you go along?
If you can't afford a $30 dvd then you could always do this:
http://www.stampcollectingmagic.com/
I watched the dvd and learned LOTS of information from it that ultimately benefited me.
As for the whole "Why buy it when you can make your own?" argument, in my mind it sounds like this:
Why should I buy a cd and support that musician, when I could just illeagaly download it for no cost to me?
Buy the DVD, and support Aaron.
If you just want to buy the gimmick, that's fine, but isn't it better to have advice and the teachings from the person who created the effect, rather than just making it up as you go along?
If you can't afford a $30 dvd then you could always do this:
http://www.stampcollectingmagic.com/
The material that accompanies releases like this is FAR from someone saying "do this effect like this."
All i am saying is that you are truly limiting yourself by not simply being open to listening to the thoughts of the people behind the effect.
Also, you are truly trivializing their efforts and work, as well as the effect itself, with this kind of thinking.
my point was not entirely about saving money
but about buying one thing, but also getting something you dont want
its like wanting to buy a gaff card deck which costs 30$
but it ONLY comes with 15 sharpie markers (for a lame example) that make it cost a total of 52$
well you dont NEED the other devices that come with it
this is my example, weather its a marker, or teachings from a talented magician, the fact remains the same
simple truth is if you dont want to buy the dvd+gaffs then go and find the gaffs else where ... go to schoolcraft or lassen directly and see if you can get one of their gaffs because as far as i know they are the only ones that make these. but you will end up paying a LOT more for the gaffs directly.
Hmm hm, and what if it was an effect or routine that did not use any gimmicks? If he still wanted it, should he just say, "I figured out the basic secret, but I don't want him too be giving me any further insight into it, so I shouldn't buy it, but just use it myself" ?
You may think that there is an ethical difference, but the thinking is identical.
It is the thinking here that is a huge problem. Not from just the ethical stand point, but from the way it will affect his own magic, and life in general.
Look at it this way, say he was a mechanical genius, and understood everything about how a car worked, how to make it go, change gears etc. Should he just say, I don't need drivers ed, or anyone to show me how to drive properly, or "their way," I just need to buy a car and I can learn it MY way. I'll develop my own way to drive." ???
Of course there are far more safety implications here, but the thinking is identical.
You can argue that he already knows magic, well, in my example, he already knew how a car works, you push the gas to make it go, break to stop, wheel to turn, the rest he can just learn himself.
Everyone will drive differently, and even drive different cars differently. But every body still needs to learn first. and every new car you get has different features than other ones they have driven before, that is why car's have owner's manuals.
They also have previous owners, or dealers, who will go over the cars features and how to use them.
There is also plenty of thinking that goes into designing each new car, and different purposes. If you get into a car and don't bother to let someone tell you that the dash is off to the centre, and why, you won't understand that they have found that it is actually far less distracting to look to it there then looking down and through the wheel and it is safer, and you may have otherwise thought it was stupid and dismissed the car and or the feature.
Also, to ignore all of these things is to spit in the face of the person who designed them.
You are saying, "I'm smart I don't need YOU to tell me how to use something you designed. I'm smart enough to understand what you made." Well, them why didn't you already do it yourself.
LMFAO. These are FAR from the same thing.
It would be like wanting a gaff deck but not seeing any reason to buy the instructions on it just because you figured out it was a rough and smooth. The instructions do far more than just tell you that.
However, gaffs used in some of these effects ARE available on their own from other places, as mentioned.
If you are just looking for those gaffs as you have your own ideas for them, then fine, but obviously your interest came from THESE people's ideas with them, other wise you wouldn't be just looking for the gaffs here.
Just like Distortion is Wayne's IDEAS, and his ROUTINES using the moving pips gaff card, which is why you would want to buy it. If you just want a moving pips card, go buy it somewhere else. But DON'T be using Wayne's ideas for it. Don't be using it for the transposition idea that you would have gotten from seeing it here.
(I realise that the idea of using a moving pip card in a transposition may have been thought of before, but I am just using it as an example. Using the idea after seeing that is what Wayne is using it for, but just going out and making, or buying, your own would still be incredibly unethical and insulting)
Aside from an ethics discussion, it is damn near impossible to perform an effect right without learning it properly. Can it be done? Absolutely. Can it be done well? Absolutely. But it's far more difficult. Case in point? Give me some baking soda and flour and cinnamon, and I can't do a damn thing. But give me a recipe, and I can make you something great.
The materials are only the tools. Some people can do some incredible things with only the tools, but the vast majority of people need the instruction. And because the effects are theory11 are taught by the artists themselves, I'm sure that they care deeply about their effects and care deeply about making sure people are learning them - and performing them - correctly.
The best way to learn is to take it one step at a time, but if the choice is to be able to buy 5 effects and try to learn them on your own with no instruction, or 1 really really good effect with instruction from the creator-- I'll take the latter every day of the week.
James.
The materials are only the tools. Some people can do some incredible things with only the tools, but the vast majority of people need the instruction. And because the effects are theory11 are taught by the artists themselves, I'm sure that they care deeply about their effects and care deeply about making sure people are learning them - and performing them - correctly.
The best way to learn is to take it one step at a time, but if the choice is to be able to buy 5 effects and try to learn them on your own with no instruction, or 1 really really good effect with instruction from the creator-- I'll take the latter every day of the week.
James.
Nice analogy. To further expand on it, some people do learn to bake from the ground up and probably could make a lot without ever having read a recipe.
But say they tasted someone else's food creation and they liked it, should they go off and recreate it just because they can? Sure they'll put their OWN take on the presentation, or the proportions of certain ingredients, but they definitely should ask the chief who made it for the recipe out of respect alone. They may sell it to you, and you may learn about a few ideas that they had on baking that you hadn't thought of, and would NOT have thought of had you not gotten that accompanying material.
AND THIS IN NO WAY STOPS YOU FROM STILL MAKING IT YOUR OWN IN THE END.
Trying to say that you don't want to be influenced by the way Aaron performs it is bull ****e.
Even if you have a completely different use intended for the gimmick, you should still watch the DVD and you may learn a hell of a lot more than you would have thought of on your own.