Why Buy Tricks?

[Chicken]

Why would a magician buy tricks? In the Books of Wonder, the author makes the point that as "artists," we would be decreasing the artistic status of our work if we performed tricks that were devised by others- we become copyists, rather than painters. When all your material is individual, you put more work into it, and it truly becomes "yours," since it sprouts from your own imagination. Magicians might purchase tricks to discover new methods, but we certainly wouldn't USE these purchased tricks, right? We'd store the methods learned into our memory banks until our imagination invents a trick that requires the method, then we'd pull it out.
A lot of this comes from the books of wonder, so if you've read them, you should already be aware of these arguments.
Why by tricks at all, when we can be so much better than that by using purely original matieral? It's more artistic, the tricks are often better (since you put more thought into inventing an effect than simply performing it- you must work out all the psychology for yourself) and it better represents you as an artist.

 

[RikAllen]

Why would a magician buy tricks? In the Books of Wonder, the author makes the point that as "artists," we would be decreasing the artistic status of our work if we performed tricks that were devised by others- we become copyists, rather than painters. When all your material is individual, you put more work into it, and it truly becomes "yours," since it sprouts from your own imagination. Magicians might purchase tricks to discover new methods, but we certainly wouldn't USE these purchased tricks, right? We'd store the methods learned into our memory banks until our imagination invents a trick that requires the method, then we'd pull it out.
A lot of this comes from the books of wonder, so if you've read them, you should already be aware of these arguments.
Why by tricks at all, when we can be so much better than that by using purely original matieral? It's more artistic, the tricks are often better (since you put more thought into inventing an effect than simply performing it- you must work out all the psychology for yourself) and it better represents you as an artist.

This can go either way.

If you never buy tricks, you never have knowledge that others have already discovered. This can create a learning curve that is hard to overcome, though many magicians have started out this way.

Buying tricks as a beginner can set one up with tested, workable material that creates a standard to which one can create towards. If I don't understand why a move works in context, then I can't execute it, even if I've figured the mechanics out.

Creating magic without ever knowing any secrets is hard. Not impossible, as all new effects have to start from somewhere, but the past is a great resource to help you move forward.

A lot of magicians on these forums use their own variations, presentations, and methods for tricks they bought days, or years, ago.

Some people will say 'It's all in who you know, not what you know.' Which is true in some areas of life. I disagree when it comes to magic, what you know can be more important than who you know. You might know David Copperfield, Criss Angel, and David Blaine very well, but if you don't know how to properly entertain then you'll get nowhere as a magician.

What you're suggesting is something already in practice (I've never read the book you're referring to) and is employed quite often. It's great to hear for people who have never had the advice given to them, but taking tricks stock out of the box and performing exactly as instructed is something very few magicians (who take their magic seriously) do.

Just a few thoughts.

 

[Cedric Taylor]

Why would a magician buy tricks? In the Books of Wonder, the author makes the point that as "artists," we would be decreasing the artistic status of our work if we performed tricks that were devised by others- we become copyists, rather than painters. When all your material is individual, you put more work into it, and it truly becomes "yours," since it sprouts from your own imagination. Magicians might purchase tricks to discover new methods, but we certainly wouldn't USE these purchased tricks, right? We'd store the methods learned into our memory banks until our imagination invents a trick that requires the method, then we'd pull it out.
A lot of this comes from the books of wonder, so if you've read them, you should already be aware of these arguments.
Why by tricks at all, when we can be so much better than that by using purely original matieral? It's more artistic, the tricks are often better (since you put more thought into inventing an effect than simply performing it- you must work out all the psychology for yourself) and it better represents you as an artist.

if everyone thought like that...how would magicians(creators) make money???

i do agree in artistry....being able to add elements take away and devise things....but we are really overthinking that......not every magician...creates....some just buy tricks and make them to fit their style.....

i do a lot of other magicians effects...you have got to remember, not everyone will see Wayne Houchin perform his created effect...but if they see you do it, you are the best ever.....

artist put these effects out to lend a helping hand as well....it also challenges them to create better and bigger things.....if everyone saw you do the same 3 to 5 tricks all the time...your act would be a bit boring....

but thats just me....

 

[Chicken]

But your audience is different every time, no? So it wouldn't matter that you only had 3 or 5 tricks, since you perform for a different audience at each show.
I'm not suggesting that you don't buy tricks, I'm just saying that perhaps you buy them to learn the method, but not to perform. Then, when you have an idea, you have a bunch of "methods" to apply to make that dream a reality.

And as far taking the "art" thing too far, is a painter who looks at other paintings and then change them slightly still an artist? Even if he is, in my mind, he's less of an artist than someone who paints all their own material, who puts the thought in to make their work beautiful. People throw the phrase "magic is art" around a lot, but not many people treat it as such.

 

[visualartist]

Not everyone can create.And not every magician is an artist.

And you have to buy tricks/books to learn how to make them in the first place.

 

[mayniac]

I've tried to create magic in the past but the simple fact is that I'm just not very good at it. Some people like Sankey or Paul Harris are extemely prolific creators that are able to create effects and plots that are light-years ahead of the rest of us. It seems to me if good material is out there, and it is, then we should use it.

My mind is geared toward improving effects or making variations of effects, so I can still make a trick my own with some creativity. I may not be able to create a whole new trick, but I can still apply my style to it.

For example, a few days ago I took one of the tricks from the first chapter of Royal Road to Card Magic, Telepathy Plus to be specific, and with a little bit of thinking, I improved the effect to the point that probably most magicians would even be fooled by it! I looked at what I didn't like in the effects, eliminated those elements, and then added new elements to make it even better.

 

[Nickerus]

It's the magician's job to entertain.
It's the artist's job to create.

They can be one and the same or totally separate.

 

[scarecrow1]

I hope that art thing doesn't start up agian.
Anyway, I prefer to make an effect my own (original patter, variations, improvements, ect), instead of starting from scratch. I mean, I create my own coin routines, but it's not from scratch. I use moves that I know and other people have created.

I mean, I also love to create effects too, it's just how I think. I'm certainly not as prolific as Paul Harris, ect, but I am creative. I'll never be as creative as him, or many people, but I'll create some interesting things. But I'll leave the big stuff for the big guys.

I have a shirt (my favorite) that says "A true artist creates something from nothing".

 

[halfflash]

I disagree. If every magician had to go out and create, from scratch, their own effects, there would be no variance in magic.
The beauty of magic is, as mentioned before, so few people get to see the magic of ________, so when I do their effect it's still just as beautiful (so long as I have put in the time and effort to make it so).

How much material from your personal show is 100% original? Maybe on stage it's easier, but in close up magic, like cards and coins, every move that I do has been "invented" by some one else. Some one else created the faro shuffle, or the classic pass, if I chose not to perform those moves, my routines would fall apart.
Some day when I start to create my own original effects, I may chose to try to make some money and pass my secrets on to my brethern.

 

[Sherlock]

I'm glad I don't listen to the guy who made the opinion in the first place.

You don't compare two different things to each other, just doesn't make sense. What you show to people depends on you, and adding your own presentation can truly make the difference. I watched Steerpike's biddle trick and couldn't even tell he did it until the very end.

The art as you say has no meaning in the actual effect as before we do anything it is just a trick. What we do with it as magicians not artists changes the entire way people perceive it.

Also how much original material can be made now a days? As far as I can tell almost every single effect has a transpo in it and just adds something else. Look at some great magicians, they don't create all their work but add their own variations in effects like Ammar's triumph effect.

 

[James Smith]

"Come on guys. Remember, we're magicians. We do magic tricks. It's not worth it getting worked up over the little things.

THEY'RE JUST MAGIC TRICKS"

Where have I heard this before?

 

[James Wise Magic]

Like a bi-sexual.

"Yes Ted that was the joke." Family Guy reference.

 

[KeoSilver]

aaang

Wonderful post Chicken,

This can go either way.

If you never buy tricks, you never have knowledge that others have already discovered. This can create a learning curve that is hard to overcome, though many magicians have started out this way.

This is only partially truth yet a point is made; when scientists share discoveries the science is pushed forward. Same goes with magic, a method is made and others see it then they go out and make the method better.

If I don't understand why a move works in context, then I can't execute it, even if I've figured the mechanics out.

This isn’t true, I mean look at the majority of youtube videos of magic that are based off of other youtube tutorials. They received the method and then they are able to perform the method without any context or proper teachings from the original source.

Creating magic without ever knowing any secrets is hard.

Correct, and have you noticed the ones that have put forth the effort to create something diabolical are the ones making money?

A lot of magicians on these forums use their own variations, presentations, and methods for tricks they bought days, or years, ago.

You dress up someone else’s terd, it’s still their terd. But how do you make the terd your own?
*waits impatiently*

You poo out your own terd!

Now enough being amusing to myself, if you start off with an idea and go through the motions to make your idea reality, congratulations. It’s the first step to becoming different.

if everyone thought like that...how would magicians(creators) make money???

*snickers* By getting jobs as a consultant or going out and performing gigs? I am not sure if you where trying to be amusing, if so it worked.

i do agree in artistry....being able to add elements take away and devise things....but we are really overthinking that......not every magician...creates....some just buy tricks and make them to fit their style.....

@.@
It must be hard for a cyber goth to find a pre-made magic trick that fits their style.

i do a lot of other magicians effects...you have got to remember, not everyone will see Wayne Houchin perform his created effect...but if they see you do it, you are the best ever.....

@+@
On the off chance that they actually see Houchin perform thread, wouldn’t you like to be remembered as different then him possibly better?

artist put these effects out to lend a helping hand as well....it also challenges them to create better and bigger things.....if everyone saw you do the same 3 to 5 tricks all the time...your act would be a bit boring....

but thats just me....

X.X

No I only do 3-5 effects, yet my participants never seem bored. But then again the university is huge and gets bigger by the day filled with new participants.

But your audience is different every time, no? So it wouldn't matter that you only had 3 or 5 tricks, since you perform for a different audience at each show.
I'm not suggesting that you don't buy tricks, I'm just saying that perhaps you buy them to learn the method, but not to perform. Then, when you have an idea, you have a bunch of "methods" to apply to make that dream a reality.

That is one reason why I buy effects; my curiosity always gets the upper hand when I see something strange; I love Tenyo tricks

And as far taking the "art" thing too far, is a painter who looks at other paintings and then change them slightly still an artist? Even if he is…People throw the phrase "magic is art" around a lot, but not many people treat it as such.

Yeah the magic is art is almost becoming as novel as your own gumball machine. But anyway I am in a very art and originals career path. Tracers are very much so frowned upon in design class. What a designer draws should be completely original in order to get any respect. If magic is an art, then there should be some drive to make an effect original.

I hope that art thing doesn't start up agian.
Anyway, I prefer to make an effect my own (original patter, variations, improvements, ect)

The only real way that I can see anyone making an effect there own is if they take the original idea of what the effect looks like and devising a completely original method to accomplish the effect.

Now when I say original I am completely aware of the different utility moves to accomplish certain things. I am not talking about that, I am talking about taking the effect ie Mystery card plot between two jokers. Then using the utilities and subtleties that you learned from previous effects to make this idea reality and original to yourself.

I disagree. If every magician had to go out and create, from scratch, their own effects, there would be no variance in magic.

AAAAAANNNNNGG!
Wrong answer, there would be more variance from performer to performer because there only outside influence would be their environment. It’s like evolution and adaptation, look at Chinese magic, compare it to Indian magic, and then compare it to magic performed in the Middle East, and then to America. Most of those countries don’t have other magicians to get influenced by other then the ones local to them, (talking in macro at the moment)

I believe I heard Jeff Mcbride talk about his early years of touring china. There card manipulation was very slow and elegant. But after some western influence they began doing faster and faster manipulation.

The beauty of magic is, as mentioned before, so few people get to see the magic of ________, so when I do their effect it's still just as beautiful (so long as I have put in the time and effort to make it so).

Do it for yourself not the spectators, it’ll be a personal growth.

How much material from your personal show is 100% original? Maybe on stage it's easier, but in close up magic, like cards and coins, every move that I do has been "invented" by some one else.

Going to stop you there, its not moves that have to be original, but the combination of moves that accomplish an effect. Preferably an original effect that you thought of by yourself, forget whether or not if it has been done before.

Think of it like “Avatar” and any other love story. The movie Avatar is still original yet sends the same message (your effect) of any action, love, drama movie. Heck there were even hints of Hamlet in that movie. It draws on the old yet it’s new. A better example are the slasher films of the 90s, they all have similar plots. The ones that stood out where the ones that took the standard kill all the teenage girlies are the ones I still remember. Last House on The left (Original), Nightmare on Elm Street series, Friday the 13th (original), and Halloween (Original). Also as a note if you choose to watch any of those movies to see what I am talking about ask your parental figure first.

 

[scarecrow1]

The only real way that I can see anyone making an effect there own is if they take the original idea of what the effect looks like and devising a completely original method to accomplish the effect.

Now when I say original I am completely aware of the different utility moves to accomplish certain things. I am not talking about that, I am talking about taking the effect ie Mystery card plot between two jokers. Then using the utilities and subtleties that you learned from previous effects to make this idea reality and original to yourself.

Ummmm, I'd still say that someone is making an effect there own by fine tuning it to fit them.

 

[descartes]

I have posted this before in a similar thread, but I think all magicians should read Whit Haydn's essay "Against Originality in Magic". Please, click on that link and read the essay.

As others have stated, if you don't invest in magic books/tricks, you will not be able to build a solid foundation from which you can proceed. Of course, it is better to invest in books/dvds that go into these fundamental things in depth rather than the latest one trick dvd.

If you are genuinely interested in creating new and original magic, you should learn as much of the published material and techniques that are out there. A knowledge of the essential techniques of the craft will help you create magic that is both elegant and mysterious. A lack of knowledge will hurt you because you simply don't know about better methods that achieve the end result you desire with fewer moves and less suspicious handling.

 

[Shodan]

Interesting topic - especially as the starting point is an argument from the late, great, Tommy Wonder!

I normally shy away from putting the words "art" and "magic" together - not because that's wrong, just because I think it sounds overly pompous. However, I'm about to just that, quite a bit, in this post.

When people talk about magic as an art, I think we have to remember that there's a few different levels to that artistry.

The Technical Artist
Art can be defined as "The principles or methods governing any craft or branch of learning"; as such, any magician who is sufficiently capable in executing the methods of magic could well be considered to be an artist. Any painter who is accomplished enough to produce a copy of a Van Gogh painting would be considered an artist as well - the fact that they haven't created anything is, in this context, irrelevant. Therefore, there is indeed merit - and artistry - to buying, practising and perfecting the tricks of others.

The Performance Artist
Magic is also a "performance art". In this subject I believe I can speak with some authority, being not only a working magician but also the director of a dance and performing arts company. Performance art is, again, nothing to do with creativity. Consider a classical pianist performing one of Mozart's concertos, or a ballet company performing Swan Lake - I think you'd struggle to find support for the argument that they're not artists! I'm talking about the art of being able to engage an audience, which can be considered as a collection of skills and knowledge which is shared by all the various media that can be presented as a performance (dance, music, magic...). Of course, it is important that you are sufficiently skilled in your chosen medium, which takes us back to the first definition mentioned above.

The Creative Artist
Finally, art can be defined as the production or creation of something which is beautiful or appealing, or significant. The creation of magic tricks is indeed a form of art (however frivolous!) - however, not one which is necessarily "better" than the others - in fact, the others are more important! As some posters have pointed out, a prerequisite for creating art is understanding the required technique; one must be a "technical artist" first. I also believe that it is critical that you should have a great deal of performing experience before you are able to create magic that will engage an audience - you must be a "performance artist" as well. After that, if you are willing to put in the time and effort, and have a creative mind, you should be able to become a "creative artist" as well.

Why buy tricks? Because learning magic is fun and rewarding - and for many of us, that's plenty. For those of us aspiring to "art", this is also sufficient provided that you work hard enough. Once you have mastered the tricks that you have bought, you can then go out and start performing them - keep on performing and learning from your mistakes long enough, and you may well become a performance artist as well.

Cheers,
David.

 

[praetoritevong]

Why would a magician buy tricks? In the Books of Wonder, the author makes the point that as "artists," we would be decreasing the artistic status of our work if we performed tricks that were devised by others- we become copyists, rather than painters. When all your material is individual, you put more work into it, and it truly becomes "yours," since it sprouts from your own imagination. Magicians might purchase tricks to discover new methods, but we certainly wouldn't USE these purchased tricks, right? We'd store the methods learned into our memory banks until our imagination invents a trick that requires the method, then we'd pull it out.
A lot of this comes from the books of wonder, so if you've read them, you should already be aware of these arguments.
Why by tricks at all, when we can be so much better than that by using purely original matieral? It's more artistic, the tricks are often better (since you put more thought into inventing an effect than simply performing it- you must work out all the psychology for yourself) and it better represents you as an artist.

Ah, Mr. Wonder certainly gives you a ridiculous amount of food for thought. Of course, ironically, you have to purchase his magic books to attain his thinking.

 

[Chicken]

]I'm not suggesting that you don't buy tricks, I'm just saying that perhaps you buy them to learn the method, but not to perform. Then, when you have an idea, you have a bunch of "methods" to apply to make that dream a reality. (dunno how to quote, but that was an idea I expressed on the first page)

The arguments you guys all seem to make suggest buying tricks and books to learn methods is neccecary. I don't disagree.

 

[Sidekick]

I do use tricks made by others, but i add my own type of patter I was thinking about this earlier:
I got angle zero by D+M (1 on 1), D+M uses a more serious approach and its just mysterious(watch the preview), Example when I did the trick one thing i did was
when i was ripping the card, i said "ohhh i hate doing this, these cards are close to me". This is just an example.

I buy a trick, i practice, then make a script and try to think of a new routine using the method.
Everyone adds a bit more to the method and presentation, otherwise why dont you just show the specs a preview.