Why?

[Zapper]

Okay, this is a weird thread I'm making.

I mean, I just see it's weird. I don't like it. I just want answers, that's it.

Straight to the ****jar;

Whenever I do magic, I get a reaction. Like a good one. Ever since I started it. I have had very few fails. Now I've used straightforward effect like the ACR, Triumph, Sandwiches, Chicago Opener, Here then there, Coin Matrix, Hundy 500 that need little or no presentation.

Now I've moved onto the more "complicated" stuff. Complicated as, it needs to be presented. Stuff from the AoA set, for example. Reset, Twisted Collectors, Invisible Palm, Color stunner, Las vegas leap for example. They are longer and more complicated than the effects I've been used to do.

So I get my presentation done, sleights as well and perform. The reaction just isn't the same. It's like they don't even know what happened, because the effect is too long.

Or is it maybe my "mouthgarbage" like the Tudor fan would explain it that limits it.

Please give me some help.

-Seb

 

[bd]

Maybe you just aren't presenting the effect right.

Reconsider your patter, and make sure that you make the moments of awe as magical and exciting as possible. Don't speed through things, it will leave your spectators confused and uninterested.

You've got to keep their attention.

 

[Squ!rrel]

You haven't really given enough information for us to be able to work out what your problem is. It would be helpful to know where you are performing these effects and what presentation you are using.

Sometimes longer routines and more complicated routines are impressive to magicians but can be confusing to your spectators. However, I don't believe the routines you listed are an example of this.

I frequently use Reset and it gets one of the strongest reactions of all my effects. I have also done Invisible palm from time to time and that also got great reactions so it seems that the problem may be in your presentation.

Or is it maybe my "mouthgarbage" like the Tudor fan would explain it that limits it.

Please do not listen do anything he says, he is a complete idiot and will hopefully be banned soon.

 

[Zapper]

Well I also figured that if I showed people some magic before, they are ought to react to the "complex" stuff greatly as well.

Could it be some stuff in there?

My patter? I really spent a lot on it, I'm sure it's not it fault. Could be mine, for being a little monotone (Spelling?) though?

-Seb

 

[Squ!rrel]

Well I also figured that if I showed people some magic before, they are ought to react to the "complex" stuff greatly as well.

Could it be some stuff in there?

My patter? I really spent a lot on it, I'm sure it's not it fault. Could be mine, for being a little monotone (Spelling?) though?

-Seb

It would be helpful to know what your patter is, we can't say if it's good or not without knowing what it is. I don't really use a lot of patter with Reset and it get's a great reaction anyway.

 

[Zapper]

Reset? Something like this; (Translated in English, it might be a bit weird)

Considering I've just finished with Twisting collectors, leaving me with the aces and the queens.

"Alright, we're gonna try something with these cards now. Now these are normal cards, as a lot of people accuse me of using special cards. Now I don't blame the faces of the cards for this, since they look pretty ordinary. I'm gonna show you why they look suspicious to them. I'm gonna use the aces. As you see, the backs of the cards actually have a pretty nice design. Angels, mermaids and these 3 circles over here. I'm gonna start with the heart. If I press on this circle, which is actually a button, it changes to a queen. Gonna continue with the next one. If i press the other button, nothing happens. If I want it to change, I must brush another ace with it (Paintbrush change), and then it happens. If I press both of these together, last two change at once, for a total of four queens. However, if I press the middle one, the "Reset" button, all four go back to what they were together. And over here are now the queens"

Something like that. Let me know what seems to be the problem ?

And if you're at it, might sharing what you use? Not gonna copy it, I promise. Just want to see what differs mine from yours. Could be the thing that prevents everything to work.

-Seb

 

[Squ!rrel]

Reset? Something like this; (Translated in English, it might be a bit weird)

Considering I've just finished with Twisting collectors, leaving me with the aces and the queens.

"Alright, we're gonna try something with these cards now. Now these are normal cards, as a lot of people accuse me of using special cards. Now I don't blame the faces of the cards for this, since they look pretty ordinary. I'm gonna show you why they look suspicious to them. I'm gonna use the aces. As you see, the backs of the cards actually have a pretty nice design. Angels, mermaids and these 3 circles over here. I'm gonna start with the heart. If I press on this circle, which is actually a button, it changes to a queen. Gonna continue with the next one. If i press the other button, nothing happens. If I want it to change, I must brush another ace with it (Paintbrush change), and then it happens. If I press both of these together, last two change at once, for a total of four queens. However, if I press the middle one, the "Reset" button, all four go back to what they were together. And over here are now the queens"

Something like that. Let me know what seems to be the problem ?

I can see a couple of potential problems with this presentation.

Now these are normal cards, as a lot of people accuse me of using special cards.

This is the first problem, most spectators don't know gimmicked cards exist, you have now suggested to them that they do. This means they could now think 'he's using trick cards'.

The fact that you have assured the spectators you don't is irrelevant, they won't remember that but they will remember you talking about trick cards and they can use this to explain the effect. It doesn't matter if you let them look at the cards at the end, they will have already convinced themselves that you used trick cards and there's nothing you can do about this.

If you want to convince the spectators you are using normal cards you should do this by allowing them to handle the cards and to shuffle them, the fact that the cards are normal should be implied not explicitly stated.

I'm gonna start with the heart. If I press on this circle, which is actually a button, it changes to a queen. Gonna continue with the next one. If i press the other button, nothing happens.

I believe this may be the main problem and it is a very big problem.
Your spectators know that the cards don't actually have a button on the back. When you make these absurd claims it can feel like an insult to their intelligence.

Why not just show them the card has changed? Why make up a bizzare and unbelievable reason as to why it has changed?

If they start to get irritated by these strange claims they will lose interest in both you and the magic, they will probably be too polite to say anything and will continue watching but won't react very well.

Here's another potential problem I have heard somebody else say, I don't know how much truth is in it but it's something to think about. When you say 'I push the button etc' The spectators know you are lying to them, they lose trust in you. Now, if you do a double lift and place a card on the table and tell them it's a Queen, why should they believe you?

 

[Zapper]

True.

I'm gonna try a straight presentation then. Something like this;

"Okay, now I'm gonna use these aces and queens together. I'll start with the aces and put the ladies aside. Watch the first ace *snap/wave/shake* as it changes to a queen. I will leave the second one face up so you can see when it happens. *paintbrush change* That's the second one. Last two I'm gonna do them together. Just a snap, and they both change. They didn't just change though, they actually went to this pile *show an ace on top of the queen pile*. However if I just wave the queens once more, they all switch back to the Aces at once. And If here are the aces, then here are the queens"

I just find it a bit boring. Better?

Now for insulting their intelligence. How about Invisible palm, where cards turn invisible, how about ambitious card, where a card jumps to the top with a snap of your fingers. Thats pretty insulty-like too, but it works.

-Seb

 

[Squ!rrel]

True.

I'm gonna try a straight presentation then. Something like this;

"Okay, now I'm gonna use these aces and queens together. I'll start with the aces and put the ladies aside. Watch the first ace *snap/wave/shake* as it changes to a queen. I will leave the second one face up so you can see when it happens. *paintbrush change* That's the second one. Last two I'm gonna do them together. Just a snap, and they both change. They didn't just change though, they actually went to this pile *show an ace on top of the queen pile*. However if I just wave the queens once more, they all switch back to the Aces at once. And If here are the aces, then here are the queens"

I just find it a bit boring. Better?

If you are going to use a basic presentation like that then I wouldn't recommend using a script, it will appear to be very forced.

If you feel that this is too boring there is another alternative. You can use a story of some sort.

Chad Nelson's Free Fall from Surfaced is a good example of this. If you're not familiar with this effect it's the elevator card in reverse i.e. The card gradually 'falls' through the deck while sticking out the side of it.

He talks about the trick representing Skydiving, you start of on top and as the card falls it represents falling through the air. By doing this, he is giving a reason WHY it is happening but does not try to explain HOW it is happening. This is very important.

Now for insulting their intelligence. How about Invisible palm, where cards turn invisible, how about ambitious card, where a card jumps to the top with a snap of your fingers. Thats pretty insulty-like too, but it works.

I believe the 'snap of the fingers' and all other similar presentations are equally insulting to many people and I would never use them. I've even heard some people say 'I don't know how you got the card to the top but I know it had nothing to do with snapping your fingers'

 

[Zapper]

It's not a 100% script. Just a patter of some sort I'd use if I wanted to just do the effect without any babbling.

Mhm, that's actually a fine idea. I might find that nice. Just don't want the effect to be based around it. Maybe just a line or two.

Now what could I use? Gamblers switching cards invisibly? Truck transports? Ducks liking the bears? Dragqueens ? Mhm I can't get something good.

So you don't use any magical gestures? What is your "magic" then like? How do you do changes? Do you just show the aces, turn it down and turn it up again, showing it has changed to the queen? Or what do you use to show when the thing happened?

-Seb

 

[Squ!rrel]

It's not a 100% script. Just a patter of some sort I'd use if I wanted to just do the effect without any babbling.

Mhm, that's actually a fine idea. I might find that nice. Just don't want the effect to be based around it. Maybe just a line or two.

Now what could I use? Gamblers switching cards invisibly? Truck transports? Ducks liking the bears? Dragqueens ? Mhm I can't get something good.

So you don't use any magical gestures? What is your "magic" then like? How do you do changes? Do you just show the aces, turn it down and turn it up again, showing it has changed to the queen? Or what do you use to show when the thing happened?

-Seb

I can't really help you with what to use for stories as it's not something I regularly do. I'd recommend watching some performances of magicians who do this a lot for inspiration.

In an Ambitious card routine i'll usually riffle or 'snap' the deck. If I do this it's possible that I could have done something whereas snapping your fingers obviously won't do anything.

For the first change of Reset i'll show the Ace, do a pirouette with the card on my finger, then show that it's changed. It simply happens, I don't try and use an action to show it changing. I guess you could say the pirouette is the magic moment but that wasn't really my intention.

 

[FOO:L]

I think that in street/walk about magic, people tend to want something In-Your-Face. A medium length/long routine with too much patter wouldnt shock them as much as an ACR. Think about that "bent card that pops to the top" thing (im sorry. the name escapes me.) versus an invisible palm routine. You'd get more stunning reactions from the spectators from that one single sleight compared to the invisible palm routine.
Overall, i think its attributed to the environment you perform in and the attention span of the audience.

 

[DLeerium]

Honestly..depends on the situation.
Also I have to say more complicated effects such as twisted collectors lack..meaning on its own.

For example what is the point on twisting the aces in the collectors plot.
That is where your patter comes in. You patter must be engaging and yet grab their attention on the get go.

If you set them up right, you can knock them down later.

My patter for the twisted collectors go something like this

"Ok well be using these four aces...because we magicians spend so much time with magic, we rarely get any physical exercise, so I need to warm up first with 4 aces..don't wanna stretch a muscle you know"

Slightly humorous but It works great.

 

[Zapper]

Thanks for your replies.

FOO:L, your reply is actually exactly what I wanted to hear, and I 100% agree with you. "In your face" is what I was looking for.

That's the probable reason why these "complicated" effects got a better reaction when shown to a person that saw magic before. Because he experienced it and knows something will happen.

And that's so true about "lacking a meaning of it's own". They need a patter to justify the effect. That's perfect.

Thank you all, really !! Hope to see you in a battle sometime .

-Seb

 

[spades]

I believe this may be the main problem and it is a very big problem. Your spectators know that the cards don't actually have a button on the back. When you make these absurd claims it can feel like an insult to their intelligence.

Very good point. I really dislike patter that uses the idea of buttons or anything similar. Just how I feel.

Also to a spectator seeing a card put in the middle of the deck and then it's back on top, or simply having a card shuffled in and then the top card changed into it - It always seems to have more of an impact.

You can go miles with an overhand shuffle control and a duck change

My Two cents.

-S♠

 

[holo]

I believe that you should change your patter with every audience. Talk to them for a minute before you start to perform. Then analyze how you should present the effect to them specifically. This will take time and lots of performances to get that skill down cold.

 

[Shadow782]

I think with long effects (as well as some mentalism effects), it requires a bit of...err Mental Capacity (If you will) to be able to process whats going on. For example, A few months ago I was really into Mentalism. The first day that I had a strong routine which I had already tested out on my grandparents. The routine was also quite lengthy and used materials like books and dice and stuff. So I went to test out this routine at school and surprisingly enough didn't get the reactions I'd gotten earlier. This is just a theory obviously, and I thought I'd share it.

 

[PjPinsonnault]

A long routine is not a bad thing, but as mentioned before, your choice of audience might be the issue.

I wouldn't consider Reset or Invisible Palm Aces long effects, unless your idea of a normal-length effect is a color change only.

I understand the language gap in what you want to say and what is put here, but I'll offer a couple of words of real-world advice on what you offered. This is general:

1) Don't make stuff up. Houdini did not "go crazy trying to figure out the Rubber Band Handcuffs trick" (not yours, I saw a trade show magician saying this), and there are no buttons on playing cards.

2) Write scripts from real life. Not CNN real, but what could be real. My script for reset concerns a magician trying desparately to better his hand in a card game, exchanging his hand, a four of a kind in kings, for the four aces that might be in play around the table. If I had magic powers, I'd probably really try this.

3) Remember what a reaction is or isn't. People don't have to flip out. Silence is reacting. Shaking of the head is reacting. The only thing missing, often, is the reaction we expect, which is wrong. Let people enjoy your magic how they please, assuming they're not heckling you, and be happy they didn't walk away from you or ask you to leave.

Be honest, people like that.

Pj

 

[BrianationX]

So I get my presentation done, sleights as well and perform. The reaction just isn't the same. It's like they don't even know what happened, because the effect is too long.

Or is it maybe my "mouthgarbage" like the Tudor fan would explain it that limits it.

Please give me some help.

-Seb

Its definitely the MouthGarbage
Ask one of your spectators to see why they were bored or
Why they didn't like the presentation

I do invisible palm aces without Patter
try it
You dont need MouthGarbage to justify great tricks
I read you Patter and to tell you the truth
It was Boring and Predictable
I dont do Patter but I can still come up with something better than that.
And Your monotone voice...
If you say all that with that voice they will get Bored
Trust me
I listen to my professor and he gets Super Boring.

Try doing at least one trick Without Patter to see what Happens
You don't have to be Mute but keep it as minimal as you can
Just try it and tell us what happens

 

[Zapper]

I did.

And you are right, little to no patter effects get bigger reaction, because it's Pure effect, no talking, just pure magic.

However, the performance is much more enjoyable if patter is used. And to me, I like people enjoying it more then just scoring big reactions again and again.

And thanks for the replies, changed it and it works .

-Seb