Nice job for quoting what tudor said in showoff 3 while he was on crack. Now would you do us all a favor and leave. Oh and mods please ban him.
Flourishes Ruining Magic?
- Thread starter BrianationX
- Start date
Flourishes, especially really complicated flourishes. As Daniel Madison said, after people see you do a couple of D&D flourishes, they won't be really amazed from the fact that you can control a card to the top.
But that doesn't mean flourishes ruin magic, it just means that flourishes are a different, and should be treated accordingly... Which means that you can put some simple flourishes into a magic routine, but if you're gonna do a Pandora flourish, give it the honor it deserves with a complete flourishes routine with no magic in it, or very little magic in it.
That's what I think.
But that doesn't mean flourishes ruin magic, it just means that flourishes are a different, and should be treated accordingly... Which means that you can put some simple flourishes into a magic routine, but if you're gonna do a Pandora flourish, give it the honor it deserves with a complete flourishes routine with no magic in it, or very little magic in it.
That's what I think.
Flourishes are becoming very popular
If you disagree then you don't know
I don't know about you guys But I've seen a lot of people doing flourishes.
Every year it becomes more and more popular.
I do a bunch of them myself
Mostly Tudor inspired material
If people are out there manipulating these cards with no effort
producing the aces with a bunch of flashy moves
what is a laymen going to think?
What is he going to think when he sees you?
Is he going to ask you to show him some of them?
Is he going to think you are not as good as the other guy because you cant do a sybil ect.
Or is he going to say thats not magic,I saw some other guy.....And the cards....
Wouldn't that be awesome
Then people would lay off the comedy.
No really
Laymen don't understand Flourishes,They see cards and they immediately think Magician.
If you cant do these flashy moves then you are not as good as someone who can to them.
If flourishes become super popular then Old School Magicians will Have to accept and learn them.
So what do you say guys lets start flourishing everytime we can.
Lets face it
Magic doesn't exist,Laymen know that
so you might as well take credit by ShowingOff(vol3) your skill with cards
If you're on deckinique or theory11, then you will see a lot of people doing flourishes, but I dare you to make a video of you going around to people on the street asking them if they have heard of Brian Tudor. I would be willing to bet none of the people you ask, will have heard of him.
Chances are laymen will have never seen an XtRemEz CaRD ManiPULatorz as good as you
rolleyes but if they did and saw you perform Brian Tudoresque magic they would think you sucked...bad. He will say he saw some kid that lives in his mom's basement cut the deck like an idiot and produce a couple of aces. He would also say that he found the whole thing boring. He would think I'm a much better performer because I can captivate him emotionally with a decent magic trick as opposed to teH SuPA syBiLZ AmBishUs CaRD RouTinEZ. No spectator gives 2 ****s about how good you are with a deck of cards. They want to be entertained.
What does this have to do with anything?
You hit the nail on the head. Laymen don't understand flourishes. They don't care about them. They don't care how good you are with a deck of cards. Flourishing is not as entertaining to laymen as you think it is.
Wait, I thought you said flourishes were super popular? If flourishes ever get popular (which I don't think will happen), by that time there will be less than a handful of the "old-school magicians" around.
Just because they know magic doesn't exist doesn't mean they can't be entertained by it. And for the last time, laymen don't care how good ou are with a deck of cards. Knowing that you can do a sybil doesn't make your show anymore entertaining.
Hmm, I have to disagree with you dragon521. There was one occasion where I was practicing Sybil 947 by Kevin Ho. One of my classmates saw me and said,"Wow, you have a cool way of shuffling your cards." and asked me to show him a trick. I declined because I was in an air-conditioned room and the cards were too smooth to do sleights. But anyway, laymen do understand flourishes.
Pure card manipulation has it's place in the world...
Cardistry (pure manipulation without using trickery to fool audiences) is kind of like break-dancing...to show it's true potential you wouldn't mix it with singing...you COULD...but it would be quite difficult to be doing something like the air-flare and singing a high note.
Cardistry in it's pure form needs to be treated like dancing/breakdancing...to music and carefully choreographed so that it fits the music in an eye pleasing way. It can have meaning...or not...in the end, it's all for entertainment purposes and I think Cardistry at it's best is on stage with a projector screen, music, and with presentation (optional). It's difficult to describe this since this art is only in it's baby steps...Kevin and I had a conversation about this 10 minutes ago.
SIDE NOTES:
Cardistry has yet to prove itself in the corporate world..."the CREAM world" (Cash Rules Everything Around Me)...when it does...I think it will be looked at like Gymnastics (when you look at Gymnastics, you know they had to have started before the age of 10)...you will not see older folks pick this up seriously due to the amount of time lost...and it's true, if one hasn't started early...most likely that person won't be up on stage where it has most potential. (They can still entertain on a more casual level however).
In addition, over 90% of people who are involved in the art are young and below the age of 20. Magic was the same way when it was unestablished...I hope everything is starting to make sense and piece together in your mind. Cardistry is indeed VERY young and has a ways to go before it's well established...only time will tell if what I said holds true about the age of those who get involved...I however stand firm on what I said in my comparison with Gymnastics.
I know one thing for a fact, those who stick around long enough will reap the rewards and will pave way in helping establish this art form to the public/corporate world. It definately has the potential to be the main source of income for any individual who is serious enough to make it his/her goal.
-Andrei Jikh
Cardistry (pure manipulation without using trickery to fool audiences) is kind of like break-dancing...to show it's true potential you wouldn't mix it with singing...you COULD...but it would be quite difficult to be doing something like the air-flare and singing a high note.
Cardistry in it's pure form needs to be treated like dancing/breakdancing...to music and carefully choreographed so that it fits the music in an eye pleasing way. It can have meaning...or not...in the end, it's all for entertainment purposes and I think Cardistry at it's best is on stage with a projector screen, music, and with presentation (optional). It's difficult to describe this since this art is only in it's baby steps...Kevin and I had a conversation about this 10 minutes ago.
SIDE NOTES:
Cardistry has yet to prove itself in the corporate world..."the CREAM world" (Cash Rules Everything Around Me)...when it does...I think it will be looked at like Gymnastics (when you look at Gymnastics, you know they had to have started before the age of 10)...you will not see older folks pick this up seriously due to the amount of time lost...and it's true, if one hasn't started early...most likely that person won't be up on stage where it has most potential. (They can still entertain on a more casual level however).
In addition, over 90% of people who are involved in the art are young and below the age of 20. Magic was the same way when it was unestablished...I hope everything is starting to make sense and piece together in your mind. Cardistry is indeed VERY young and has a ways to go before it's well established...only time will tell if what I said holds true about the age of those who get involved...I however stand firm on what I said in my comparison with Gymnastics.
I know one thing for a fact, those who stick around long enough will reap the rewards and will pave way in helping establish this art form to the public/corporate world. It definately has the potential to be the main source of income for any individual who is serious enough to make it his/her goal.
-Andrei Jikh
Last edited by a moderator:
Andrei: the subject was not the cardistry as an art form. I agree with you on your point about pure manipulation and comparison to dance....
The question was weather or not flourishing, when combined with magic, ruins or enhances it...
The question was weather or not flourishing, when combined with magic, ruins or enhances it...
Great post Andrei.
Certain flourishes might enhance your magic, like fans and lepaul's springs and such... but obviously doing pandora during the middle of a magic performance will not make any sense. Like Dan or Dave said, your a dumbass if you think flourishes compliment magic. Very few of them do.
Certain flourishes might enhance your magic, like fans and lepaul's springs and such... but obviously doing pandora during the middle of a magic performance will not make any sense. Like Dan or Dave said, your a dumbass if you think flourishes compliment magic. Very few of them do.
My above post goes into great detail in answering this question. In a nutshell it would be...yes you can combine them..however it would be much more effective to keep them separated at their full blown potential.
In a casual situation, you can combine Cardistry with Magic accordingly. For example, if you used magic such as the two card monte to let your audience know how fast your hands are at switching cards...etc...in other words using a non magical presentation to accent what your doing, thus creating the illusion that you're better than you actually are. I looked at the bigger picture when combining the two...(on stage)
-Andrei Jikh
In a casual situation, you can combine Cardistry with Magic accordingly. For example, if you used magic such as the two card monte to let your audience know how fast your hands are at switching cards...etc...in other words using a non magical presentation to accent what your doing, thus creating the illusion that you're better than you actually are. I looked at the bigger picture when combining the two...(on stage)
-Andrei Jikh
D
Deleted member 2755
Guest
As some people already said, flourishing has it's own ground. It has almost (notice I said almost) has NOTHING to do with magic. They are two different things that use the same tools (a deck of cards).
Flourishing is ok to combine with magic, but it is best not to do really complex stuff. That then takes the "magician" part away and makes you "the guy who does some SICK stuff with cards"(which is ok if that is what you want). Simple flourishes such as some fans, the ribbon spread, springs, dribbling, swing cut, etc. are alright to use. (I feel every magician should be able to do those.) However, when you start throwing stuff in like Lethal or the Jackson 5.... you aren't a REAL magician anymore.
It's ok to be a pure card manipulator. People do that instead of magic sometimes. Look at De'vo. You could also be just a magician. Saying something like "Flourishes ruining magic?" could also work the other way as "Magic ruining flourishing?" They do not affect each other at all.
I hope that helps.
-Doug
Flourishing is ok to combine with magic, but it is best not to do really complex stuff. That then takes the "magician" part away and makes you "the guy who does some SICK stuff with cards"(which is ok if that is what you want). Simple flourishes such as some fans, the ribbon spread, springs, dribbling, swing cut, etc. are alright to use. (I feel every magician should be able to do those.) However, when you start throwing stuff in like Lethal or the Jackson 5.... you aren't a REAL magician anymore.
It's ok to be a pure card manipulator. People do that instead of magic sometimes. Look at De'vo. You could also be just a magician. Saying something like "Flourishes ruining magic?" could also work the other way as "Magic ruining flourishing?" They do not affect each other at all.
I hope that helps.
-Doug
Ok
If Flourishes become Huge, I mean like everyone is doing them
What are laymen going to think.
When laymen See Flourishers they immediately think magician.
Some people like to believe that the audience believes that what they are doing is magic
Which is cool but its not really like that
When people get used to seeing flourishers they will understand that what they are doing is card manipulation
When they produce the 4 aces in a flashy way, or shuffle the deck and the deck is in new order, or when you place the cards in the middle and they jump they wont see it as magic.
When they see a magician doing some ACR they wont see them as magic either
I rather take credit than the deck but some people like the Whole Magic deal.
Magicians don't present they're cards as "magical".doofus.(for need of a better word)
"I rather take credit than the deck"
of course thats your conjection
you just got done watching showoff 3 and your gonna be convinced of that till you decide to grow up and then move on to some other wacky thing.
I wonder if you have any thoughts of your own on this matter?
or is that your thing, you come into a forum and recite some obscure passage brian tudor said and pawn it off as your own?
Then what do they present the cards as
Because the magicians Ive seen re too afraid to show Skill
SO they let the Credit go to the deck
Why would I let the deck take credit for all the work im doing
The deck doesn't make the card rise to the top
I do
I saw ShowOff long ago
And My views on Magic were not Changed by it
They were enhanced
This are all my thoughts
no one is making me think like this
No thats not my thing
D
Deleted member 2755
Guest
What you are now saying is completely irrelevant. You are saying "IF flourishes become huge, I mean like everyone is doing them" Well... I will say that with the younger generation of magicians, flourishing is getting more and more mainstream. However, can you really say that everyone is doing them? You can't. I actually speak to a few people that don't do flourishes. (Of course I'm not counting fans, springs, etc. I'm talking flourishes that look incredibly hard to do.)
As for laymen thinking about magic... Not all do. Some do. Explain to your spectator that you are a card manipulator... as in you have complete control over every card in the deck at all times. Don't even tie magic into it. However, if they do ask to see a trick... then do something simple. If you want you can also do something fancy looking like Queens. However, not all laymen think magic when seeing flourishes.
Saying that a laymen will not see an ACR as magic is ignorant. That is pure ignorance and you are way off. However, it depends on your presentation. If you do some insane flourishes and then move into the ACR... then yes you are absolutely correct. (However, they will still see it as an insane magic trick.) However, if you just do an ACR without flourishing... that is real magic.
-Doug
Uhmm,...This clearly states you really have no freakin idea of what your talking about and you clearly don't deserve this art. I would spend more time educating you but I'd rather not.
Shane
Flourishing is completely different to magic, they're just 2 things that use the same tools.
It's like saying that clowns are ruining roulette games.
It's like saying that clowns are ruining roulette games.
