Put the cards down...

[tokyoUW]

The answer is simple, and in all respect to the OP, I believe he is misunderstanding a simple thing... that is that, people will do what they are interested in doing.

If someone loves cards, ie... maybe is a trick monkey, or just loves the feel of a deck of cards in their hands, then cheers to them. If someone is interested in performing for money and doing magic professionally/ semi-professionaly, then yes, perhaps it is in their best interest to do other things.

However... as a HOBBY, people seriously need to stop telling people that their method for doing their hobby is "narrow," or "incomplete." People will enjoy their hobby the way they want to, so, I wouldn't go around telling them that they are enjoying their hobby in the wrong way, or in a limited way.

 

[visualartist]

The answer is simple, and in all respect to the OP, I believe he is misunderstanding a simple thing... that is that, people will do what they are interested in doing.

If someone loves cards, ie... maybe is a trick monkey, or just loves the feel of a deck of cards in their hands, then cheers to them. If someone is interested in performing for money and doing magic professionally/ semi-professionaly, then yes, perhaps it is in their best interest to do other things.

However... as a HOBBY, people seriously need to stop telling people that their method for doing their hobby is "narrow," or "incomplete." People will enjoy their hobby the way they want to, so, I wouldn't go around telling them that they are enjoying their hobby in the wrong way, or in a limited way.

Obviously this isnt directed at solely hobbiest. Hobbiest can do whatever they want.
What im saying is its not an issue of "its what they are interested/specialize in". because its ALL anyone wants to do anymore. And its blatantly obvious that its because,as I said before, a safe zone. To just perform cards. A card plot is handed to you on a plate so many dont bother thinking of adding to it.
Give that kid seance magic tricks or even exile and he will sh!t his pants trying to think of something to engage their audiences in it.
What im saying is the masses lack any substance at all in their card magic.
I wouldnt have a problem at all with it if they gave their performances any life but they dont. Its a mixure of "umms" and "your card goes here..and..umm" while the whole time the performer is always staring at the cards and giving no reason to their spectators for them to care other than something "Cool" is about to happen.

 

[Haunter]

Its both actually.
The hardcore infatuation everyone has with cards and how mediocre that branch has become in the past 5 or 6 years. And what you said as well.
Card magic is getting sleightier,less magical,more masterbatory,and almost doesnt make a lick of sense anymore.

You're absolutely right. Something I think could breathe new life into it would be actually blending it with other forms. I'll make a point to keep this in mind as I'm learning and creating. Popular tricks that come to mind immediately would be like Stigmata or Tagged using cards. Those are a good mix of mentalism and cards. Yours, mine, yours from By Forces Unseen is a trick with a coin and cards that freaked me out a little bit.

Imagine going into a spongeball routine then ending with the specs hands full of balls (lol) AND their card.

OH! OR-

-Have a spectator pick a card, lose it into the deck, the card vanishes from the deck, a cheeseburger appears, you bite into the cheeseburger and their card is in it! "Oh well I lost your card. Cheeseburger time suckasssssss! THERE IT IS!" Dude, I'd love it.

 

[Luis Vega]

I don't think they'd want to see an hour of any ONE thing. No matter what subject you major in at "magic college", most of your audience won't want to see a full hour of just that.

I agree...I was just saying cards because is the subject of the thread...well somehow

I agree also that card magic has gone a little mediocre,don´t get me wrong there are still some great card magic but since the rise of youtube...this has gone in the wrong direction, I hate to see videos that says "NEW TRICK" and is just a mix-up or other tricks or a nonsense trick with cards or crappy patter...jezz

 

[visualartist]

You're absolutely right. Something I think could breathe new life into it would be actually blending it with other forms. I'll make a point to keep this in mind as I'm learning and creating. Popular tricks that come to mind immediately would be like Stigmata or Tagged using cards. Those are a good mix of mentalism and cards. Yours, mine, yours from By Forces Unseen is a trick with a coin and cards that freaked me out a little bit.

Imagine going into a spongeball routine then ending with the specs hands full of balls (lol) AND their card.

OH! OR-

-Have a spectator pick a card, lose it into the deck, the card vanishes from the deck, a cheeseburger appears, you bite into the cheeseburger and their card is in it! "Oh well I lost your card. Cheeseburger time suckasssssss! THERE IT IS!" Dude, I'd love it.

I did make this one card/non-card effect months ago.
I use a card but only to show the potential of the human body.
Monks in some regions of Asia have demonstrated an ability
to raise the core temperature of their extremities by as much as 17 degrees.
Scientists still aren't entirely certain how this works. And I tell my audience I can do something very similar. In other words 'lower' the temperature.
I pour water into one hand,cup both hands together with the card in the other.
Blow out air sofly and squeeze hands together.
And the card emerges trapped in a block of ice.

Then I throw it at their face and yell "team jacob suckassss!!!" and then sprint outta there....Maybe I should take the last bit out of my peformance...maybe

 

[Sherlock]

.....visual, I think I just died a little on the inside. How can you not love the amazingness and pasty skin of that which is Edward Cullen?????? HOW???

I think what would be impressive is a scientific demonstration of this. More so for a stage environment but some sort of gimmicked device and when you turned the card into a ice cube the audience had such a visual image of science "proving" what you did.

Of course not necessary at all, but would be something amazing to see.

 

[Haunter]

I did make this one card/non-card effect months ago.
I use a card but only to show the potential of the human body.
Monks in some regions of Asia have demonstrated an ability
to raise the core temperature of their extremities by as much as 17 degrees.
Scientists still aren't entirely certain how this works. And I tell my audience I can do something very similar. In other words 'lower' the temperature.
I pour water into one hand,cup both hands together with the card in the other.
Blow out air sofly and squeeze hands together.
And the card emerges trapped in a block of ice.

Then I throw it at their face and yell "team jacob suckassss!!!" and then sprint outta there....Maybe I should take the last bit out of my peformance...maybe

ROFL I think you may have come up with the single GREATEST way to handle hecklers that I've ever seen haha. Wow, my laugh muscles hurt from that post man no lie.

 

[scarecrow1]

.....visual, I think I just died a little on the inside. How can you not love the amazingness and pasty skin of that which is Edward Cullen?????? HOW???

Unfortunately, many of America's thirteen year old girls would back up what you said...

 

[visualartist]

Unfortunately, many of America's thirteen year old girls would back up what you said...

Id take buff wolves over scrawny,sparkly vamps anytime. Hell,even rob pattinson hates edward.
But anyways,yeah..the topic..

 

[Sherlock]

I watched an interview with good ol' Pattinson and he lied quite a bit about relating to the character. Good old manipulators and eye movements, he told the truth that he cares about Kristen though.

I think what would be very enjoyable if everybody that does card magic got their cards and did exactly as the thread title reads. If you can't do anything with what is around you except the cards you put down then maybe it's time to add variety.

 

[Mike.Hankins]

Its both actually.
The hardcore infatuation everyone has with cards and how mediocre that branch has become in the past 5 or 6 years. And what you said as well.
Card magic is getting sleightier,less magical,more masterbatory,and almost doesnt make a lick of sense anymore.

There are so many things that could be said here...let me try to express my opinion about this.

Everytime I write something down, I end up erasing it, because my mind is so filled with thoughts on this subject.

Walk into your local magic shop and look at the books along the walls. How many of them focus on card magic? A HUGE majority. Now look at the amount of books that talk about coin magic. There are some, but not nearly as many as there are for cards. What about books written solely on the art of borrowed objects? Not many at all. Stage Magic? I would say more than the borrowed object books.

Now, look at the magic community in general. How many magicians do you know who perform card magic? A HUGE majority. Now look at the amount of magicians who perform coin magic. There are some, but not nearly as many as there are card magicians. What about magicians who do magic with borrowed items? Not many at all. Stage magicians? I would say more than the magicians who perform magic with borrowed objects.

The truth of the matter is, there is more material out there on the market that focus more on card magic than anything else. The answer for that is simple. There is so much you can do with cards than cannot be done with a borrowed candle, or a lighter, or a fishstick. So the more you can do with an object(s), the more you will see material on the subject.

So then why say that card magic has become mediocre in the past 5 to 6 years? Why not go back, and look at some classics in card magic that have been lost over the years? Personalize a routine that YOU are passionate about, and start doing it again, making it fresh and new. And be real...ANY piece of magic will not make a lick of sense to a spectator if you do not know how to present it.

Look, there are a great amount of sources to turn to for impromptu magic...Dan Harlan has quite a bit of material out there that one should look for...
Dan Hauss is another dude to turn to for magic without coins or cards.

And as I said before, if you plan to book shows, it is VERY important that you can do more than just a few cards tricks because, (I say this from past experiences), you WILL be asked. This is where you have to know when to STOP learning new effects every day, and focus on 5 or 6 STRONG pieces of magic you can do VERY well. THEN you can start learning new types of sleights for coins, or everyday objects. Once you have a complete polished act, then start booking those shows...

Wow, rambling on once again...let me sum this up and make it short and simple.

1. Card magic is NOT mediocre, it is what YOU make of it. If you are sick of the "slieghty" card magic coming out today, then open up a classic book and learn something that you never learned before. Polish it, make it YOUR OWN and RELEVANT and perform it well.

2. If you want to learn something new, I suggest already knowing 5 or 6 STRONG pieces of magic in one area that you can do time and time again without fail. THEN you can start learning something new. You are allowing your brain the room to add more to your routine that is different, fresh and new. Eugene Burger only had about 7 pieces of magic to show his audience when he was table hopping.

Ok, time to watch Dexter...

Mike

 

[Shodan]

The thing that annoys me about topics like this one is that everyone insists on speaking in broad generalisations. I'm not going to sit here and rehash the content of my first post to this topic (for one thing, it still hasn't a response!), but suffice to say that yes you CAN perform an hour of entertaining, varied magic with cards. Yes you CAN book gigs with just card tricks - and come out the other side with great reviews. I have been asked if I do anything "other than card tricks" - I responded simply and honestly:

"No, unfortunately I don't. However, HERE'S all the great reviews that my card magic has had, and if that's not enough, other magicians are so impressed with my magic that I have been approached about publishing my work."

They booked the gig. Not only that but I performed card magic straight for 40 minutes for a static group. Not only THAT, but they left a 33% tip at the end.

If you BELIEVE in your product and if you are an ENTERTAINING, ENGAGING performer, then you can perform whatever the heck you WANT to! I am passionately interested in card magic and have been performing professionally for YEARS with nothing BUT card tricks, and have never left a client disappointed.

Cheers,
David.

 

[Haunter]

If you BELIEVE in your product and if you are an ENTERTAINING, ENGAGING performer, then you can perform whatever the heck you WANT to! I am passionately interested in card magic and have been performing professionally for YEARS with nothing BUT card tricks, and have never left a client disappointed.

Cheers,
David.

Thats inspiring and I think that when it comes down to showing people the greatest things about card magic it will only be possible through people like you, same for any other form.

 

[Sherlock]

I certainly don't believe that card effects are wrong, bad, or anything negative. It's just wonderous that we all seem to do miracles with cards, it doesn't seem to flow with what we allow people to perceive of us.

No doubt your audiences will be entertained, and the way you described it shodan is exactly how people should perform everything. Yet,, I get a sense that if somebody asked me to do an effect and I didn't have my cards, and couldn't show you anything that doesn't look good at all. It takes away from the magical feeling, if it's a formal show then of course you will have your props and that's fine.

Shodan, I will be honest, I can not do a one hour card show. I could not perform one or watch one, or would attempt to do either. The redundancy in my mind isn't very satisfying and it's more so just me, as I can barely do one thing for more than half a hour without getting bored or what not.

Also, Dexter is sweetness and I love the ending.

 

[Shodan]

Haunter - thanks very much...seems to me that we're on the same wavelength about a lot of these issues.

Sherlock - What you say about "not having cards with you" seems to imply that you want people to see you as being "magic", and so able to DO magic anywhere and with anything. This is, ironically enough, not really the midset of a professional entertainer (despite all the emphasis in this topic on the "working magician").

I have no problem at all with people seeing me as a guy who does "magic with playing cards". I am under no illusion that people think magic is "real". I think of magic as "live special effects" - creating the illusion of magic.

Having said all that, my mindset is that although I do earn money from performing, magic is not my "job". I like to be prepared to perform my full working repertoire at any time - which is why I always have a deck of cards on me (if nothing else, I'm never bored!), I have a mini-sharpie on my keyring, my wallet is a "card-to-wallet" wallet, which also contains a couple of predictions, a poker deal prop and a couple of other items. It doesn't require any extra thought or effort to carry this stuff around, as they all live in my wallet or on my keys - items I always have with me.

Sherlock, I'm not sure I know how to take your last paragraph; if you aren't comfortable concentrating on anything for more than half an hour, then I don't see how its relevant that you wouldn't want to watch an hour of card magic!? Regardless, I will re-iterate the ONLY fundamental truth in this whole discussion: its the performer who is important, NOT their material. A magician who you find genuinely entertaining can keep you interested for at least an hour, regardless of what tricks they're doing (I am pre-supposing that a good performer will have selected high-quality tricks for their act).

Cheers,
David.

 

[visualartist]

There are so many things that could be said here...let me try to express my opinion about this.

Everytime I write something down, I end up erasing it, because my mind is so filled with thoughts on this subject.

Walk into your local magic shop and look at the books along the walls. How many of them focus on card magic? A HUGE majority. Now look at the amount of books that talk about coin magic. There are some, but not nearly as many as there are for cards. What about books written solely on the art of borrowed objects? Not many at all. Stage Magic? I would say more than the borrowed object books.

Now, look at the magic community in general. How many magicians do you know who perform card magic? A HUGE majority. Now look at the amount of magicians who perform coin magic. There are some, but not nearly as many as there are card magicians. What about magicians who do magic with borrowed items? Not many at all. Stage magicians? I would say more than the magicians who perform magic with borrowed objects.

The truth of the matter is, there is more material out there on the market that focus more on card magic than anything else. The answer for that is simple. There is so much you can do with cards than cannot be done with a borrowed candle, or a lighter, or a fishstick. So the more you can do with an object(s), the more you will see material on the subject.

So then why say that card magic has become mediocre in the past 5 to 6 years? Why not go back, and look at some classics in card magic that have been lost over the years? Personalize a routine that YOU are passionate about, and start doing it again, making it fresh and new. And be real...ANY piece of magic will not make a lick of sense to a spectator if you do not know how to present it.

Look, there are a great amount of sources to turn to for impromptu magic...Dan Harlan has quite a bit of material out there that one should look for...
Dan Hauss is another dude to turn to for magic without coins or cards.

And as I said before, if you plan to book shows, it is VERY important that you can do more than just a few cards tricks because, (I say this from past experiences), you WILL be asked. This is where you have to know when to STOP learning new effects every day, and focus on 5 or 6 STRONG pieces of magic you can do VERY well. THEN you can start learning new types of sleights for coins, or everyday objects. Once you have a complete polished act, then start booking those shows...

Wow, rambling on once again...let me sum this up and make it short and simple.

1. Card magic is NOT mediocre, it is what YOU make of it. If you are sick of the "slieghty" card magic coming out today, then open up a classic book and learn something that you never learned before. Polish it, make it YOUR OWN and RELEVANT and perform it well.

2. If you want to learn something new, I suggest already knowing 5 or 6 STRONG pieces of magic in one area that you can do time and time again without fail. THEN you can start learning something new. You are allowing your brain the room to add more to your routine that is different, fresh and new. Eugene Burger only had about 7 pieces of magic to show his audience when he was table hopping.

Ok, time to watch Dexter...

Mike

You hit on somethings ive wanted to be pointed out but not the main ones.
Yeah,like I said,there are millions of card material because its easier to do it.
Nowadays there are hundreds of transpos,sandwiches and variations all claiming to be the ultimate and smoothest.
Tricks are being made for the sake of being tricks.
Like the main question here asked "your a magician,why should the audience care?"
very few bother to answer that question. Thats what all this goes back to.
All these endless card tricks are being performed for audiences but given no reason for why they should care other than something "cool" is about to happen.
Lacking any substance that couldve been there.

Simply put,nothing kills magic like a lack of motivation.

 

[visualartist]

as for this new card magic thats been coming out..some friends and family finally have watched some and their reactions are pretty mixed. Its alot of "wait,whyd he do that..rewind it.." and my personal favorite "ugh im tired of these magicians showing off with their cards.I dont care. Show me some magic and give me something to care about geez."

 

[visualartist]

Here is a message from TOYROBOT that hits on very good points and what we are saying about lack of motivation. Sucks that he's gone


"My thoughts are that cards are an old prop. You know how some people are saying that we need to update our tricks to incorporate new technology and culture? Like using cell phones and the internet, and things like that? I think cards are the exact opposite of that. Cards just aren't a relevant cultural item. They're not strange or unusual, yet at the same time they are, because people don't interact with them as much as magicians like to think they do. Maybe for poker, or your grandparents might have an old deck they play Rummy with, but cards just... there's no motivation for doing magic with them at all. It really makes no sense - "I want to perform miracles for you people. I won't float, I won't read your mind, no. I will instead make these cards hop around!"

Steerpike spoke to me about a similar issue, saying that most magicians stick to cards because of how easy and self-contained they are. There's about 400-thousand card tricks on the market, so you never run out of material. Their cheap and easy to find. There are hundreds of utility moves and sleights with cards. It's like a perfect prop! ...except no one can give a good reason why this is important to me. It's largely an issue of comfort zones. Card sleights are easy. The material is numerous. And since most magicians here are teenagers still in high school or middle school, and with no jobs, they don't have to spend lots of money!

Have you read Derren Brown's books? In there, he talks about his conversations with Teller, and how Teller says magic is theater. Most magicians, he goes on, portray the part of a god, who snaps his fingers and his will is made manifest. It's boring - there's no conflict, no drama. We know the magician will always do what he says he will, we know he is a miracle worker, we have no reason to "hope he wins," because it's already so obvious. Motivation, to the god-mage, is simply, "Hey look what I can do!"

And then, you compare that to Derren himself - his motivation is, "I want to show you all these social experiments to illuminate human nature."

It's not the cards themselves, or the routines, I don't think - it's, as always, the logic applied to them. In Caleb Strange's book, Garden of the Strange, he takes a simple Triumph routine and turns it into a meaningful routine about an elderly woman decreasing in age, going back from her deathbed towards childhood, into finally a nebulous cosmic nothing. He does this by substituting the cards for photographs of this woman at various ages. It's still the same idea: cards are reversed, then magically righted, but here it actually means something. What's especially moving is that when the pictures are shuffled in the right order, it's like a choppy flipbook of the woman getting younger and younger, and it's beautiful.

But what we're dealing with is a community of people who honestly don't give a sh*t about presentation or their audience, they just want to look cool in front of people. Motivation is an important part of a trick, and it's THERE if you spend time thinking about it. But who can find motivation in a deck of regular ol' playing cards? It takes too much effort, even if the answer is as simple as changing the cards for pictures."

 

[Sherlock]

Yeah, I strayed to far Shodan. I was going on about just being in a real world situation, not the working performer which this was intended. Just me and my rambling will often do that unfortunately.

 

[Cedric Taylor]

There are so many things that could be said here...let me try to express my opinion about this.

Everytime I write something down, I end up erasing it, because my mind is so filled with thoughts on this subject.

Walk into your local magic shop and look at the books along the walls. How many of them focus on card magic? A HUGE majority. Now look at the amount of books that talk about coin magic. There are some, but not nearly as many as there are for cards. What about books written solely on the art of borrowed objects? Not many at all. Stage Magic? I would say more than the borrowed object books.

Now, look at the magic community in general. How many magicians do you know who perform card magic? A HUGE majority. Now look at the amount of magicians who perform coin magic. There are some, but not nearly as many as there are card magicians. What about magicians who do magic with borrowed items? Not many at all. Stage magicians? I would say more than the magicians who perform magic with borrowed objects.

The truth of the matter is, there is more material out there on the market that focus more on card magic than anything else. The answer for that is simple. There is so much you can do with cards than cannot be done with a borrowed candle, or a lighter, or a fishstick. So the more you can do with an object(s), the more you will see material on the subject.

So then why say that card magic has become mediocre in the past 5 to 6 years? Why not go back, and look at some classics in card magic that have been lost over the years? Personalize a routine that YOU are passionate about, and start doing it again, making it fresh and new. And be real...ANY piece of magic will not make a lick of sense to a spectator if you do not know how to present it.

Look, there are a great amount of sources to turn to for impromptu magic...Dan Harlan has quite a bit of material out there that one should look for...
Dan Hauss is another dude to turn to for magic without coins or cards.

And as I said before, if you plan to book shows, it is VERY important that you can do more than just a few cards tricks because, (I say this from past experiences), you WILL be asked. This is where you have to know when to STOP learning new effects every day, and focus on 5 or 6 STRONG pieces of magic you can do VERY well. THEN you can start learning new types of sleights for coins, or everyday objects. Once you have a complete polished act, then start booking those shows...

Wow, rambling on once again...let me sum this up and make it short and simple.

1. Card magic is NOT mediocre, it is what YOU make of it. If you are sick of the "slieghty" card magic coming out today, then open up a classic book and learn something that you never learned before. Polish it, make it YOUR OWN and RELEVANT and perform it well.

2. If you want to learn something new, I suggest already knowing 5 or 6 STRONG pieces of magic in one area that you can do time and time again without fail. THEN you can start learning something new. You are allowing your brain the room to add more to your routine that is different, fresh and new. Eugene Burger only had about 7 pieces of magic to show his audience when he was table hopping.

Ok, time to watch Dexter...

Mike

just as you said with dan, thats what i love about kevin parker, i think his maturation and quality of his effect since his first release has gotten better and he keeps doing it...the kool thing about kevin is that when you learn the secrets, the first thing that comes to a person mind is "damn thats so simple, i could've come up with that"...its simple but very effective...kevin parker is one of my favorites....he doesn't uses these high price gimmicks, he uses normal stuff, everyday stuff, and does his thang...

i might be exaggerating but if i'll go on record for saying this:

If you gave kevin parker a rock, he'd build an entire castle......