Factory Sealed - Review

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Ray

Sep 1, 2007
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Germany

May I quote the same guy only a bit further in the thread?

Hey guys, I just went out and performed version one of the effect. I don't usually perform things the day after buying them but I just really wanted to try it out. I used a quarter for the version and I must say, the reactions were quite killer. I may have jumped the gun calling it a complete waste of money.

I still stand by my views of the second method but I do like the idea of the spectator holding the cap.

Mitchell

He changed his mind. :)


Edit:
Guys,

Shall we move on, and avoid the "beef," if any. This thread is a review for Factory Sealed. Therefore, let's get back on topic, and refrain from back and forth arguments.

I'm leaving this thread open for now.

JTM

Will do.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Philadelphia, PA


Ray,

Just in case you missed it two pages later this is Mitchell's follow-up once he went out and performed the effect:

Hey guys, I just went out and performed version one of the effect. I don't usually perform things the day after buying them but I just really wanted to try it out. I used a quarter for the version and I must say, the reactions were quite killer. I may have jumped the gun calling it a complete waste of money.

I still stand by my views of the second method but I do like the idea of the spectator holding the cap.

Mitchell

And yet another quote from y2john on the Cafe
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=232266&forum=109&87&start=60

On 2007-11-02 12:51, Y2John wrote:
Hmmm, I decided to have a go at Nicks penetration for the first handling today...
It was not in an actual performance as such, it was around my next door neighbours where they were having a get together, and ive performed all the handlings on Impervious, Lucid Dreams 1 & 2, and The Coin Accomplice/Prohibition for them in the past... so they have seen some of the best bottle penetration effects to date...

Well in all honesty they were completely floored, I mean it's the first time they have stood there gobsmacked and, instead of grabbing the bottle, just reach out and rub the point of penetration lol.
Usually they want to inspect the bottle, but with this that wasn't the case...

The only conclusion I came to was that the penetration must look authentic enough that examining just isn't neccessary... well that's how I took it.

I was actually kinda surprised at the response... it looks very good and so I was expecting a good response... but in all honesty I have not had a response quite like this with any other penetration effect.

Now what I said in a previous post I still stand by, the cons I pointed out are true... but there is no denying the fact that this recieved the most powerful response ive had with a cib, and I can't wait to perform it again.
Imagine the response from those who are not used to seeing magic... it's gonna be insane.

One thing ive been playing around with is combining the best things from the cib's I own... with subtleties taken from others, added to the subtleties taught in Factory Sealed and Bullet... and with Nicks penetration... AMAZING!

I realize things can get a bit muddled when you have the propaganda machine giving you bits and pieces of information hoping you won't actually go and look for the reviews yourself. Pretty neat how people can pick out a few negative comments and paint a picture isn't it? I could do this all day but I have some other things to work on. Let's talk about this review though right? Still waiting to see that remotely enforced....

--Jim
 
Oct 10, 2007
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Yes, of course Factory Sealed will get great reactions. Almost all decent CTB will get great reactions.

I'm not talking about the response of laypeople here.

I'm talking about information about FS that might be misleading.

Just look at the review below.

Factory Sealed:

Can the coin be borrowed? - Yes (as long as it matches)

Can the coin be marked or initialed? - No. The point of this effect is the beauty of the visual penetration, not a detective-like examination of the process. That question comes from your mind, not the spectator's. We never heard it once in all the performances that were filmed, and there were a tremendous number of them that were shot. (yeah whatever. no you cant, basically)

Can the bottle be borrowed? - No (correct - at least they are honest about it)

Is it necessary for the coin to be marked or initialed? - No. The point of this effect is the beauty of the visual penetration, not a detective-like examination of the process. That question comes from your mind, not the spectator's. We never heard it once in all the performances that were filmed, and there were a tremendous number of them that were shot. (oh shut up)

Can the bottle be from a vending machine? - Yes. When you watch the DVD, dozens of "routine" ideas will flow from your mind. We at Team E continue to create our own personal routines everyday with Factory Sealed and have tons of fun doing so. We encourage you to do the same. (basically like you can perform invisible deck with a borrowed deck...deck switch)

Can this be performed point blank right in front of your spectator's eyes? - Yes. (close up effect, it can be done as, yes)

Can it be performed surroundned - Yes ...there is a beautiful version included in the DVD which can be performed completely surrounded, and MAN does it get reactions. It's likely that you will perform this one more than any other version included on the DVD. (you can do it surrounded, depending on how you perform it)

Can the penetration take place in the dead center of the bottle when performing it surrounded? - Yes. (true, but the bottle has to be horizontal, so it is still at the bottom, effectively))

Is the factory sealed container clear? - Yes, completely. (no comment)

Can the label be removed? - Yes. (true)

Do the spectators actually SEE the penetration occur? - Yes, the slower the miracle is performed, the better. (iffy - they never see a penetration, but they will think that they did, depending on what variation you perform)

Can the spectators hold the bottle as the penetration occurs - Yes, we demonstrate and recommended this to generate a truly astonishing experience for your audience. (no comment)

Are gimmicks involved? - No. The effect in relation to its practicality is in perfect equilibrium. An absolute dream effect. (true)

Is everything immediately examinable after the miracle occurs? - Yes (same as indecent...examinable once you "clean up")

Are gimmicks involved? - No. (true)



Hope this has given you an idea above the hype and outright lies of E (impromptu bullet...if you have what you need on you )

Any morer questions, give us a shout. I'll write a review in a week or something when I have tried a bit more out. I have just "corrected" the FAQs

My point is there is some misleading points on the FAQs.

Magicians who are purchasing it have the right to know what FS can or cannot accomplish. It is not about methods, but rather how strong the effect is.

According to other neutral reviews,

FS cannot be done on the spot with a borrowed bottle.

FS cannot be done with a signed coin.

FS cannot be done with impromptu with a big coin.

FS cannot let the audience look at the seal and break the seal of the bottle.
you have the propaganda machine giving you bits and pieces of information hoping you won't actually go and look for the reviews yourself

I have the exact same words for you.

I have just posted a full review of Factory Sealed from talkmagic forum. It gave some interesting facts about FS.

Perhaps you can respond to that review?
 
Sep 1, 2007
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What is the matter with you, Ace? In all honesty, you are easily the most annoying member I've ever seen post on a magic forum. Why? Because no matter what you're always going to try to find a way to downgrade E and everybody involved with them while making yourself and others look better. Just please, stop.

I try my hardest to stay away from posting anything that could be offensive, but with you I'm glad to make an exception. Ruin your reputation by performing Factory Sealed? Now that crosses way over the line of expressing your opinion and is just flat out offending Nick Verna.

STOP PRETENDING THAT PEOPLE ARE OUT TO GET YOU!!!
STOP TRYING TO ACT LIKE YOU WANT A TRUE HONEST DISCUSSION THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!!!
STOP ACTING LIKE PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO MAKE YOU LOOK BAD, IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!!
STOP PRETENDING THAT YOUR OPINION ISN'T BIASED AND THAT EVERYONE ELSE'S IS!!!
JUST STOP!!!

Finally, stop offending people and then I'll reconsider not offending you. Your posts always anger people, and now I've caved in too. Your posts always cause threads to go downhill...you'd think that you would have gotten the picture now. This post is a direct effect of your previous posts in this thread, so don't blame me for this thread continuing to go off topic. Your words were far too offensive to go unnoticed by me.

Hope you change your attitude towards certain things,
Zeus
 
Oct 10, 2007
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Zeus375,

I'm just posting neutral reviews about the CTBs here.

Reviews that show both the pros and the cons. Reviews that shows that some of the information about FS can be misleading.

If you want all the reviews to be good, you are only kidding yourself.

If by posting those neutral reviews is offensive to you, I apologize
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Zeus375,

I'm just posting neutral reviews about the CTBs here.

Reviews that show both the pros and the cons. Reviews that shows that some of the information about FS can be misleading.

If you want all the reviews to be good, you are only kidding yourself.

I see where you're coming from in that area, but that's not what my post was concerning. And besides, the possibilities of Factory Sealed are almost without limits. Just because it's not taught in the dvd, doesn't mean that you can't find a way to do it. Think about that, or maybe just buy the dvd and you won't have to play the guessing game about what's true and what's not. Just remember, you can do more with Factory than what's taught on the dvd. Way more.

Zeus
 
Oct 10, 2007
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I see where you're coming from in that area, but that's not what my post was concerning. And besides, the possibilities of Factory Sealed are almost without limits. Just because it's not taught in the dvd, doesn't mean that you can't find a way to do it. Think about that, or maybe just buy the dvd and you won't have to play the guessing game about what's true and what's not. Just remember, you can do more with Factory than what's taught on the dvd. Way more.

Thanks for staying on topic.

The fact is they are NOT taught on the DVD. The fact is only 2 methods are taught in FS.

You have to add your own knowledge of CTBs to make it possible.

If you own Abyss 1, you can also built on it so that it become a coin through factory sealed bottle.

It is very convenient to say: "if you built on the groundwork of Factory Sealed, you can come up with this and that"

You can do way more with other CTBs than what's taught on the DVD or pdf too.
 
Sep 1, 2007
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Thanks for staying on topic.

The fact is they are NOT taught on the DVD. The fact is only 2 methods are taught in FS.

You have to add your own knowledge of CTBs to make it possible.

If you own Abyss 1, you can also built on it so that it become a coin through factory sealed bottle.

It is very convenient to say: "if you built on the groundwork of Factory Sealed, you can come up with this and that"

You can do way more with other CTBs than what's taught on the DVD or pdf too.

Good points(I like that this topic has regained its meaning). But I still think that plenty, actually more than enough, is taught on the dvd. I recommend you buy it. Oh yeah, and can I ask what specifically your problems(or whatever you'd like to call them)are with Factory Sealed. I'd like to clear some of this up...

Zeus
 
Oct 10, 2007
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Let's hope the discussion continue to stay on the right track. =)

and can I ask what specifically your problems(or whatever you'd like to call them)are with Factory Sealed. I'd like to clear some of this up...

Actually after reading the reviews, I already have an idea of what FS is about. (effect wise)

However, some reviews have directly opposite facts of FS.

Can someone just hand you their own factory sealed bottle and you can do FS right on the spot?

From some reviews the answer is no.

However, Jim said it could be done.

This is the confusing part. And it also means someone is lying here.

What are your views on this?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sep 1, 2007
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Let's hope the discussion continue to stay on the right track. =)



Actually after reading the reviews, I already have an idea of what FS is about. (effect wise)

However, some reviews have directly opposite facts of FS.

Can someone just hand you their own factory sealed bottle and you can do FS right on the spot?

From some reviews the answer is no.

However, Jim said it could be done.

This is the confusing part. And it also means someone is lying here.

What is your view on this?

Well, I guess that it is possible, but I wouldn't recommend it. This is the only weak point to Factory in my opinion, but it's really no biggy when you consider what the rest of the effect brings to the table. After all, melting a borrowed coin that's bigger than the bottles mouth through the bottom/side of the bottle...which is "factory sealed"... does make a fantastic effect. The set-up take's literally maybe 2 seconds longer than that of the original Bullet. Speaking of which, is also a great effect. Highly recommended. But anyway, I wouldn't count on performing Factory as impromtu as mentioned.

The effect really is in a perfect equilibrium with it's practicalness though.

Zeus
 
Oct 10, 2007
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I wouldn't count on performing Factory as impromtu as mentioned.

Thanks for your answer. =)


After all, melting a borrowed coin that's bigger than the bottles mouth through the bottom/side of the bottle...which is "factory sealed"... does make a fantastic effect.

Well actually it's only the bottom. The "side" is actually the bottom if you hold the bottle horizontally.
 
Sep 29, 2007
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Forum Floors

Factory Sealed By Nick Verna (Produced by Ellusionist)

FACTORY SEALED Page

EFFECT

A visual feast of an absorption/infusion effect where the coin is really borrowed (even really handed to the performer by the spectator) pressed against the walls of an UNOPENED bottle (physically contacting it) before it is seen to SLOWLY, VISUALLY, and OPENLY MELT through the solid material, through the liquid, and right into the crystal clear, full Bottle of Factory Sealed water, at the very point of impact... right at your fingertips, trapping the coin inside...all while the bottle (clear container, clear liquid, no label) need not even be moved.

It can even be done while the spectator holds the bottle with no leaks whatsoever.....And amongst all things end spanking CLEAN!

This is Nick Verna's Genius Effect...streamlined by Ellusionist for complete workability to be able to easily perform just about anywhere/anytime.

METHOD
Several clever methods involving the 'real work.'

The Inner Workings are nothing less than the work of a Pure Genius.
So many incredible Ins & Outs carefully explained that allow this illusion to work effectively time and again.
Just Brilliant! I can clearly see now why this piece of magic sits on miraculous status.

Amazing Subtleties and superb Handlings that will knock you right out.
Killer Principles incorporated to absolute perfection.
Sweet Enhancements with some special touches that give it that little extra something to deliver a truly convincing spectacle.

Alternate Variations and killer ideas. Perform it with the bottle at 90 degrees, 45 degrees, even Zero degrees for an entire crowd. You'll see the tons of Routine possibilities and different directions you can go with this baby.
A mountain full of Presentation and Performance tips along with a chapter on EffectiveTechnique Tips to 'fine tune' your executions. Plus, many other additional Helpful Hints to aid you on your journey.

If you THINK you know, you don't know.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are some other cool FAQ's ...

Can you borrow the coin - Yes you can use all kinds of coins. Very versatile. The thicker the coin, the more intriguing.
You will see performances where spectators GIVE the performer the coin. (Actually give their coin...ie. nickel)

Can you borrow the Bottle - Yes, the bottle can be borrowed from a fridge or vending machine even and you'll be ready to go in seconds. No need to do any home prep work. It is not taught how to do this but once you have the groundwork down it will probably take you about 3 seconds to figure out how to do this yourself.

Is it necessary for the coin to be marked or initialed? - No. The point of this effect is the beauty of the visual penetration.

Can this be performed point blank right in front of your spectator's eyes? - Yes.

Can the bottle be displayed surrounded? - Yes

Can the melting effect be performed surrounded? - Yes.

Can the penetration take place in the dead center of the bottle when performing it surrounded?
- Yes.

Is the factory sealed container clear? - Yes, completely.

Can the label be removed?
- Yes.

Do the spectators actually SEE the penetration occur? - Yes, the slower the miracle is performed, the better.

Can the spectators grab/snatch the bottle immediately after the penetration occurs? Yes

Can the spectators hold the bottle as the penetration occurs? - Yes, it is demonstrated and recommended to generate a truly astonishing experience for your audience.

Factory Sealed - A snap, crackle, pop each and every time, anyplace, anywhere, anytime, all the time.

Is everything immediately examinable after the miracle occurs?
- Yes. Completely.

Are gimmicks necessary? - NO! The effect in relation to its practicality is in perfect equilibrium. An absolute dream effect.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Can be performed IMPROMPTU, right on the spot with just a few seconds of getting into frame...That's it!...SECONDS and you will be ready to go. You can also easily go down the street, to a bar or pub (or even party) and wow a completely different crowd without having anything on you.

The effect is SO VISUAL and CONVINCING you won't even need to carry any permanent markers on you to have the coin marked/signed for identification. For those who really want to venture out that route, with some built in routine work, you can easily apply any desired worker's variations such as: Signed Coin, Big Coin, Wet Coin, presentations. Even Nick's Signature Souvenir Ending...No problem. Any worker interested in investing the extra effort has the luxury to do so. The groundwork taught is so strong, you will see for yourself.

Cost - Very generously priced. An effect as strong as this AND as practical is well worth the asking price. Could have easily been sold for more. Very good price and so well worth every penny.

Difficulty Level
- Amazingly easy to execute. With presentation ideas, it actually is fun. Nothing uncomfortable to arrive at A+ performances that you can pretty much do On-the-Spot. This is one of the few routines that is actually fun to practice and work on out there today.

Teaching - Excellent. Magic lessons galore. E's classic razor sharp instructions, taught professionally. The cream of the crop material is broken down and the basics are taught step-by-step with detail. Clear and concise which makes this miracle easy to learn and add to your own repertoire.

Live Performances- Yes, Plenty of them with strong reactions. Even a special chapter with EXTRA performances. The live performances are stunning to say the least. The GENUINE reactions you can see in the faces of these spectators speaks volumes about the impact of this effect.

Production - Superb Production on High Quality DVD with multi camera angles and excellent audio.

DVD/Download Set Up- Excellent. When you are all finished watching the entire DVD/Download and done absorbing all the terrific material it contains, you'll find it easy to navigate back to your favorite selected areas of interest with absolute ease. The layout is top notch.

Overall Rating - This is a clear 10 with FIVE STARS in front of it. Or should I say 9.9 just to reserve for 'real magic,' if anyone ever can prove they really have such powers. For me, this is as close as it gets.

Audience reactions are EVERYTHING! Factory Sealed has it...hands down!

Nothing like the Genuine Article!
Just look at Nick V. himself perform at the beginning of the trailer.
And, that's just ONE way to express this mesmerizing, magic universe rocking, made history of an effect.

Practice and you too can hit these celestial levels that have been proven time and time again to without a doubt win the crowd over.

Factory Sealed - Two thumbs UP!

Congratulations Nick on a stellar release and graciously offering this rare treat to all of us. Anyone who has been around you and seen this performed or met you in person knows for a fact that your very heart and soul was poured into this breadth of work we now have to learn for ourselves. Folks please treat this with the utmost respect and honor by striving to achieve the bar shattering standards to which this has been designed.

--Jim


That's a pretty solid review. Thanks so much from someone who actually owns it and isn't jealous that they wish they created Factory Sealed.

It's nice to see solid info VS. complete childhood nonesense from people who spend their time talking smack.

Walking the walk is much harding than talking the talk no one cares to listen to anyway.

Thanks JimBowmanJr. for sharing your true thoughts on a product you own and tried yourself.
 
Sep 29, 2007
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Comparison to others:

First and foremost... ALL of the following were released AFTER Factory Sealed was released to E.
And, after E announced the coming of their CTB project publicly.

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Sealed in

"Main effect" is a 'to location' type of trick.
Not a visual penetration effect...(plain and simple.)

Other variations show a 'quick' penetration that doesn't look truly convincing all the time because of either the pathway of the coin being inconsistent in the way it appears in the bottle or the aftermath being the main concentration and not the penetration presentation itself. Plus WAAAY to much movement of the bottle. Very suspicious looking. Looks like you're trying to shake something that is already inside into view. Not very genuine.

Although now in the ad copy and written in places like the jacket, nowhere on the DVD did I "hear" the signature term "Factory Sealed" be mentioned by either of the two gents in the video. (a term used to describe Nick Verna's effect FACTORY SEALED). A term placed in print long ago mind you.

Sealed In uses what many agree to be an impractical sealing method that does not work well a lot of the time and is not good for all bottles. Not practical enough for the street scene you see advertised in their demo. The pre show 'gimmicking' work is quite time consuming even after you've mastered it. There is no quick reset, no ability to repeat the effect. Plus the seal when opened, only made ONE small crack sound. Didn't seem real at all. Not very convincing. Low performance value.

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Impervious

No coin contacting the bottle to demonstrate a truly convincing penetration.
More of a 'mind thing' here.

Jeremy's Hanrahan's contribution though, is excellent for routines and worth checking out. "The Hanrahan Hold," I believe can be obtained through Jeremy directly.

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Sealed & Stuck

Not a convincing penetration at all in my book.

A coin falling behind the bottle (where the performer places it) simply is not the same as a coin penetrating the bottle.

There is no reason to even discuss this further for the penetration part is the whole point of the effect. I simply could not get passed the core of this trick for it does not look like it penetrates the bottle at all.

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Aquatic (A CIB routine)

Once again we have a coin never actually contacting the bottle for the initial penetration of the routine where the penetration is to take place. More of an implication type of thing. Not completely convincing.

Not impromptu. Requires a gimmick.

The whole coin under bottle (as well as the 'under the sea' version in abyss2) reminds me of what was already in print from a book called Bet You Can't, Scientific Impossibilities to Fool You which was ©copyrighted back in the 1980s.

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Abyss2

Seems like Abyss woke up to the full bottle/sealed bottle bar previously set.
The CIB premise of Abyss1 revamped.
Alternate ways to perform.
Not as clean all the time like you see in the demo, misdirection is required.
Can't just up and borrow the bottle.
Not completely impromptu, but can appear to be.
A traditional gimmick is required for the sealing the bottle. Sealing the bottle is limited.
Gimmick is not applicable to all bottles.
There is a set up time around 20 secs or so.
Some like it, some hate it. (especially with a certain something used)
Not available on DVD, but price is reasonable.

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Lucid Dreams

Gimmicked City.
Prep work out the Wazoo.

Dream One consists of too much movement of the bottle, and looks fishy as to the way the coin enters.
(pathway of the coin)

Dream Two has a visual FALL and the cover is way too long to be considered a convincing penetration.
Many may find the handling to be uncomfortable and cumbersome as well.

This is a clear example of a CIB brought to market that was "just invented" if I may quote the creator himself.

This is my honest take on other effects that will inevitably be compared to Factory Sealed and Bullet. Some were clearly rushed in anticipation of beating Factory Sealed and Bullet out of the gate, others...well just didn't really feel that magical when performed for live audiences.

I can't say I disagree with this. Some i don't have and don't care to have, but would agree with you fully on the ones i do have.

So it has been confirmed...by people you actually worked with Factory on the project and others who purachased it:

You can borrow the bottle.

You can do all kinds of worker style variations.

It is poosible to let the spectators examine immediately and tamper with the seal and produce results where they vouch that they even broke the seal themselves.

All this with many ways to penetrate the coin..even openly visually, cleanly while completeey 360 degrees surrounded.

All impromptu with no gimmciks with the proper practice of course, naturally.

There isn't anything remotely close to this.
The legendary/mythical Factory Sealed is in fact true.

Wonderful!

I'll be using this upon learning it fully.
 
I understand that the 'setup' is not difficult to do and technically possible on the fly, and while avoiding exposure, there is no way to do it subtly so you have to rely on the audiance being distracted at one point. For good performers this will probably be easy, but it should be mentioned that it's not the easiest thing in the world. A signed coin would be even harder. I'm not a magician and mainly got this effect because I carry cards around all the time so somehow I got a magicians rep without actually performing magic so I occasionally get random tricks to entertain people. My inexperiance being, that I do not think I could pull off the setup of this trick on the fly, I just don't have the audiance managment skills and such. It's possible, but I just think that people should be aware that it's not as simple as glancing the bottom card for a setup of a card trick.
 
Oct 10, 2007
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TheInfomer, I think it would be more informative (no pun intended) if you include other neutral reviews.

The neutral reviews are from people who actually purchased the product too. You seems to think that those neutral reviews are not valid for some reason.

It's nice to see solid info VS. complete childhood nonesense from people who spend their time talking smack.

Seems like those "excellent" reviews are valid

Those neutral reviews are "chilhood nonesense"

Get real. Jim is known to be with very good terms with the creator of FS. This might sway his opinion on FS.

Hence I would trust reviews from neutral parties more.

And Jim's comparision of FS with other CTBs, is one of the most bias review ever.

He did not own some of the other CTBs he mentioned. Furthermore he did not base his comment on other real reviews of the CTBs. He did not list what what each and every CTB can or cannot accomplish. It was not an attempt to compare the CTBs, but an attemp to try his best to make FS look good.

Here is my view on the various CTBs.

Here are my opinions on the various CTBs

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Sealed In: Yes, maybe the penetration is too fast. But I think it looks as fast as Bullet, done with water. If you like fast penetrations, go for Sealed In.

The other reason Sealed In is stronger than FS is, in Sealed in the bottle is REALLY factory sealed. In Sealed In, you can let other people break the seal, in FS that cannot be done.

Sealed In's penetration might not look as good as FS, but the good thing is it could be done with a real factory sealed bottle.
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Impervious

Chris handling is very similar to the surrounded version of FS. Hence there is really nothing much to compare. Just like FS, the bottle is NOT factory sealed.

Like FS, no gimmicks!

Jeremy's effect is no longer in Impervious I think? I have no idea what it looks like, as there are no demo videos of it. Now that he is not in precision magic anymore, maybe he can show us a good demo video.
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Sealed & Stuck

The coin is NOT falling outside the bottle. If it falls outside the bottle the coin would just hit the floor, end of the show.

The fact is they can see that the coin visually penetrates the middle and hits the bottom. Unlike FS, you don't have to cover the coin in the penetration. This is the most open CTB. Check out the Best CIB thread for more info on this.

And it is really factory sealed, where the audience can clearly break the seal themselves. A big signed coin can be used too. FS cannot do that.

A gimmick is used. The gimmick is extremely portable and sometimes you will even forget that you have it with you.
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Aquatic

The penetration in FS looks similar to Aquatic.
In aquatic you need to use a gimmick, which is NOT a big deal. the gimmick can be carry around easily.

The bottle is not factory sealed. No big signed coins.
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Abyss2

Abyss 2 looks visual. You can bring the bottle upside down and you can penetrate it through the bottom. Imagine FS, but doing it upsidedown (FS cannot be done upsidedown) You can see the coin sinking down to the cap.

You will need gimmicks for this. You can use a big coin.

There are ways to perform this with factory sealed bottles.
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Lucid Dreams

Lucid Dream 2 is one of the most amazing penetrations I have ever seen. Go check out the demo video of it.

Like FS, you covered the coin. But the main difference is the main point of penetration is not covered in Lucid Dream. The whole point of penetration is covered in FS.

In Lucid Dream they can see the coin penetrates the side of the bottle and fall down into the bottle.

Yes you will need a gimmick.

There is a factory sealed version , but the penetration is not as visual as the Lucid Dream 2. Basically you place the coin on the cap, *bam* and it pass through the bottle.

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Factory Sealed

The penetration is not the most visual ones I have seen. The whole coin is covered by the hand. The whole point of penetration is covered by the hand too. You cannot see anything much.

The bottle is not factory sealed. You cannot let people look at the seal and break the seal.

You cannot do this on the spot with any borrowed bottle.

FS is great, but only on as great as Impervious.
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I think it would be great if we can continue the discussion in the other best CIB thread.


So it has been confirmed...by people you actually worked with Factory on the project and others who purachased it:

You can borrow the bottle.

You can do all kinds of worker style variations.

It is poosible to let the spectators examine immediately and tamper with the seal and produce results where they vouch that they even broke the seal themselves.

All this with many ways to penetrate the coin..even openly visually, cleanly while completeey 360 degrees surrounded.

This is what I meant by misleading informations.

You can do all kinds of worker style variations with OTHER CTBS too.
It is poosible to let the spectators examine immediately and tamper with the seal and produce results where they vouch that they even broke the seal themselves.

From the reviews, this cannot be done. Unless you use another tactic from ANOTHER CTBs.

All this with many ways to penetrate the coin..even openly visually, cleanly while completeey 360 degrees surrounded

Only 2 ways are taught in the DVD. Only 2.

If Ellusionist spent 2 years on this project, why don't they just include all the bonus handling and stuff?

I am thinking maybe the Ellusionist don't want to include them due to copyright issues.

Yes, you can make improvements to FS (you can make improvements to ALL OTHER CTBs too) but you have to use techniques you learn from OTHER CTBS.

That might be why Ellusionist did not include all the "extra handlings" in the teaching. Thye might be accused of ripping off other CTBs.

Like what I said earlier, it is very convienent to say "If you add more work to FS you can do this and that"

The truth is, with a little more work, the same can be done for almosr EVERY OTHER CTBS.

What is the FS that is really taught in the DVD?

From the reviews, it is a CTB that cannot be done on the spot with a borrowed bottle.

It is not factory sealed. Other people cannot look at the seal and break it.

You cannot use big signed coins.

There are only 2 penetrations. One is fully covered by the hand. The other looks just like Chris handling in Impervious.

That is it. That is what they teach you in the DVD.

Of course, if you own other CTBs, you can add them to FS to make FS stronger.

Same thing, if you own Abyss, you can add it to Impervious to make Impervious stronger.

If you own Impervious, you can use it to make Abyss stronger.

Get the picture?

It is not fair to just said FS can do much more, and make it a thing that is unqiue to FS.

The truth is, you can do the SAME thing to other CTBs. A little modification to Impervious and aquatic will get you a effect that closly resembers FS. (I have seen magicians done that and post a video of it)

Can you then say that by adding stuff to aquatic, it is then as strong as FS?

Of course not! The logic is flawed. You should compared what is taught in aquatic and what is taught in FS.

The legendary/mythical Factory Sealed is in fact true.

If you just look at what is being taught on the DVD, then this statement is not true at all. In fact, FS is weaker than most other CTBs.

But if you combine elements of all the other recent CTBs on FS, of course you will get the strongest CTB ever.

If you combine all the elements of other recent CTBs on Abyss, you will get a legendary CTB too!

My point is, take away all the other elements found in other CTBs. Just look at what FS really is.

The DVD only show you 2 methods. No big signed coins. Bottle not factory sealed. Cannot be done on the spot with a borrowed bottle.

That is FS, nothing more and nothing less.

I understand that the 'setup' is not difficult to do and technically possible on the fly, and while avoiding exposure, there is no way to do it subtly so you have to rely on the audiance being distracted at one point. For good performers this will probably be easy, but it should be mentioned that it's not the easiest thing in the world. A signed coin would be even harder. I'm not a magician and mainly got this effect because I carry cards around all the time so somehow I got a magicians rep without actually performing magic so I occasionally get random tricks to entertain people. My inexperiance being, that I do not think I could pull off the setup of this trick on the fly, I just don't have the audiance managment skills and such. It's possible, but I just think that people should be aware that it's not as simple as glancing the bottom card for a setup of a card trick.

Good point.

The set up is extremely difficult to pull off on the spot, especially if people just hand you the bottle and people are burining your hands and the bottle.
 
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Who are you to give a review on your own product? That's called blatant advertising and is against the rules of this forum.

Cheers,

First of all, Jim gave a comparison of the various CTB. In my opinion his comparison might be abit bias. My effect was included in his comparision too.

I just want to clarify what Jim said about my CTB is not true. He did not own the effect and he did not base his comments about my effect on reviews from people who purchased it.

Moreover, it was not a review of my CTB. I merely compared all the 7 CTBs that are on the market. Each have their own pros and cons. The main focus is not on my CTB.

If the mods still thinks that it is not acceptable, feel free to remove some parts of the comparision.

I have a feeling this might end up being the focus... so please just leave it to the mods and continue with the discussion on FS.

Ok back on topic!


Btw, I just found out that Ellusionist did not have a forum for FS.

It might seems strange, because they keep saying with additional work and techniques (NOT taught in the DVD) you can make FS do this and that.

However, I think the Ellusionist is doing the right thing here.

If you have a discussion forums about how you can add on to FS, you will end up exposing methods used in other CTBs too.

This would turn the special FS forum into a forum where people expose methods of other non E CTBs. It'll look like those exposing magic websites. -_-

Since you have to use elements of other CTBs to add on to FS, it would be best NOT to have a forum discussing the "add ons" to FS.

Don't expect to pick up FS and do all the things some people here claimed. You would need to know techniques from other CTBs as well (which is not taught in the DVD)
 
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Get real. Jim is known to be with very good terms with the creator of FS. This might sway his opinion on FS.

That makes no difference whatsoever. Jim is a RESPECTED person in the magic community and on multiple forums. Just because he knows the creator doesn't mean that he will plug him just for the sake of it. His experience and past behavior shows that he is an excellent person with credible views.

It was not an attempt to compare the CTBs, but an attemp to try his best to make FS look good.
Ok listen. Jim liked the product and made a good review of it. Remember, he does not work for E, or for Nick, neither do I. So there is no reason for him to make something 'look good'. There are positive reviews and there are negative reviews of every product out there. There's no reason for you to jump on every single positive thing and tear it out. You do not even OWN the product and you are just gathering information about it from various sources in an attempt to reconstruct the whole effect based on your knowledge. Many people are irritated by the way you jump in on the CIB thread. I have even discussed this with the staff of other forums and here as well. You are advertising your product sometimes directly sometimes indirectly - so please follow the rules first.


From the reviews, this cannot be done. Unless you use another tactic from ANOTHER CTBs.

Buy the effect and find out yourself if you are so interested. And then come and give a review. You're not interested in this effect and you say you will not be buying it then why are you so out for blood? You're not interested so leave it.

All your facts are based on other people's facts. It's very easy to pull up negative view points and quote them. Why not go to their reviews and applaud them. Why bring it over here?


I just want to clarify what Jim said about my CTB is not true. He did not own the effect and he did not base his comments about my effect on reviews from people who purchased it.


I cannot speak for Jim but look at this in this way. You do not own the effect either.

You can compare the 7 effects, sure. Put your product in there as well and plug it. Advertise it all you want. You're getting the attention in E's CIB review thread, wow. Congratulations. We all know it's not acceptable and the mods over here are quite busy and are a few in number and may not be able to go over every single thing. So if you have any respect for the thread and the main topic, go there and remove all your mentions of your product that you have posted.

Yes, E does not have a forum for the CIB's because they have not found it necessary. However, the users of the forums have the advantage of being able to directly contact the creators for any help with the effect. I think that is just fantastic. EVERYTHING cannot be taught on a dvd, it would run forever. Magic is about creating something unique - something individual, not about copying what is given to you forever. As you keep performing, you will learn to improvise and come up with variations to help you better. Sometimes it is not NECESSARY. As whatever is on the video is sufficient and extra things are not required. Such as over convincing.

I doubt anyone I will perform to will ask me to use a different coin, then again do it with a different bottle, then do it again with a signd coin, and go on about it. Except you maybe. The effect itself will be shown only once I will ensure that the experience is an out of the world one - as with any of my performances. Look at it from a spectators point of view and an effect point of view. If you like it, get it. If you think you can achieve such reactions with your spectators (and you can as shown in the previews) then more power to you to get it.

Cheers,

AJ

ps - sorry for stealing your reply format :p
 
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I knew you would continue to focus on me instead. I already said leave it to the mods. If they think it is not acceptable for me to compare the 7 CTBs here, they can edit my post.

The whole point is

I just want to clarify what Jim said about my CTB is not true. He did not own the effect and he did not base his comments about my effect on reviews from people who purchased it.

Although I do not own FS, I do based my comments on other reviews. But Jim did not based his comments about my CTB on any reviews.

Yes, E does not have a forum for the CIB's because they have not found it necessary. However, the users of the forums have the advantage of being able to directly contact the creators for any help with the effect. I think that is just fantastic. EVERYTHING cannot be taught on a dvd, it would run forever. Magic is about creating something unique - something individual, not about copying what is given to you forever. As you keep performing, you will learn to improvise and come up with variations to help you better. Sometimes it is not NECESSARY. As whatever is on the video is sufficient and extra things are not required. Such as over convincing.

You missed the whole point.

I think everything cannot be taught on the DVD not because of the time limit. But because Ellusionist might get themselves involved in some copyright issues if they do so.

Elements of other CTBs have to be used, in order to "add on" to FS.

That is the point. FS alone is only a mediocre CTB at best. You have to add all the other techniques from other CTBs to make it look better.

Without the elements of OTHER CTBs, FS is just another average CTB.

And people have to get other CTBs, before they can "add on" to FS.


I doubt anyone I will perform to will ask me to use a different coin, then again do it with a different bottle, then do it again with a signd coin, and go on about it. Except you maybe. The effect itself will be shown only once I will ensure that the experience is an out of the world one - as with any of my performances. Look at it from a spectators point of view and an effect point of view. If you like it, get it. If you think you can achieve such reactions with your spectators (and you can as shown in the previews) then more power to you to get it.


No, the solution is simple. Use a big signed coin and a real factory sealed bottle from the start. The impact is huge, trust me. However the same thing cannot be done with FS.

Big signed coins, real factory sealed bottles, no cvoer penetrations are all TAUGHT in other CTBs. You don't have to try to figure out new methods and do add ons if you get the other CTBs. Everything is included, unlike FS.

And now it's not about the response of laypeople. Any decent CTB will get reactions.

This is about what FS can or cannot accomplish. This is about the information potential buyers received. If the information they received are misleading, it is very unfair to them.

Buy the effect and find out yourself if you are so interested. And then come and give a review.

I have to spent USD$29.95 just to know if the Ellusionist is making misleading claims? A few people have already purchased FS just to know if the hype is true. And they are disappointed.

One of them want to sell me the 2nd hand FS. Who knows, maybe I will really get it from him and gave a review on it myself.

But the other neutral reviews I have seen on other forums already proved that FS is just another average CTB.
 
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