A Battle Half Lost

[praetoritevong]

This is going to be a rather short post by my standards, so don't get too lazy now.

Recently, there's been some talk about a particular book - I'm not going to say which one. It's a book that I own, and enjoy, a lot. Now, recently, more and more, talk of this book has popped up occasionally in a thread or two, just a whisper.

It's a brilliant book, mind you. One of the better books that I own. It's a book I've read through, taken about 40 pages of notes on in my magic notebook, that I utilise every single day. I use it in my magic, but in my daily interaction with people (if you know what I'm talking about, as a few of you might - Dee in particular might know this, please don't mention the name, or guess at what it is - it defeats the purpose of the thread). It even helped me in an acting audition some time ago.

So I'm seeing comments about this book, which I don't mind. Most people won't give it a second thought about it, and those that do, have the minds that will benefit from the book, so good on them.

But the sorts of comments I'm reading, is this:

"Very interesting stuff"
"A great read"
"A tome of information"
"All you need to know"

And I can't help but to think that that shouts out "I haven't actually used anything, though." What I would say about this book? Look above, how have I praised this book?

"I use it every single day."

See, all the comments I'm reading about this book, praise it for having wonderful information.

Almost no-one praises it out of experience. Everyone puts their hand up and says, Yep, I recognise that this is great!

The unspoken implication is, ...but I haven't bothered to use it.

And THIS is what sh*ts me. It's people who have this wonderful information, realise it's wonderful... And waste it. Sure, they mention it on an internet forum because it makes them sound knowledgeable, but they don't have the dedication or the desire or the balls to get off their backsides and actually use the damn thing. If you're not gonna use it, then YES, I'd rather that the knowledge be exclusive to me, because otherwise, I'll be talking to people who have that knowledge but don't have a damn clue about the knowledge, and that's useless to me, and contributes to those things that detriment the art.

Like judging a magician's skill solely on sleight of hand, for example. Here, it's the same - judging on knowledge. But idle knowledge is knowledge wasted. Knowledge without application is knowledge without thought.

We all have great tomes of information in front of us. Royal Road. 13 Steps. And some of us have this book. But information is useless if we don't use it.

Some say, "Recognition is half the battle won."

I say, "Recognition is only half the battle."

 

[Luis Vega]

So what?!!!! everybody can use their properties the way they like, also I think that is ridiculous you speak about this book and don´t even bother to say the name and say "Oh check this book, is really great!! you should take a closer look" but asume that everybody just look down at the book


I mean, do you even know this people? how do you know they don´t use it? just because they are not so excited as you doesn´t mean they aren´t using it.... everybody use the book the way they like and you can´t do anything about it


You Can´t Tell People How To Feel About Something...You Just Can´t
if they look down at it, it´s not your bussines! they bought it and they can do whatever they want with it, if they want to use it as toilet paper (no pun intended on the book) it´s still their book and not your business!!

Peace Out

 

[Sherlock]

Not quite sure what you posted about. People not using the book the way you do?

I guess you are assuming because of the way they wrote down their review that they don't use it which is just absurd. I'm sure quite a few of them use the stuff it if it's that great, assumptions is the mother of all failures.

 

[RDChopper]

Stop going into defensive mode for a while and actually try to understand the point that he is making.

If it's the book that Im thinking about, then yes, Im guilty of doing that.

 

[William Draven]

I'm lost. What book is this? And where can I find it?

 

[KeoSilver]

Your lost?

I was never found.

Haha HOOOooo that was a terrible joke.

*goes back to his corner*

 

[William Draven]

Your lost?

I was never found.

Haha HOOOooo that was a terrible joke.

*goes back to his corner*

... Where's a newspaper when I need one?

 

[Brehaut]

I understand the point you are making but it really makes no sense to not name the book. At a minimum, it takes people's attention away from your chief point. Further, by naming the book, the community can probably add their own experiences on how they use it. Finally, if the book is as valuable as you say, how about recommending it to us.

From my own experiences, I have read books where I found something very interesting and I fill richer with the knowledge but understand for one reason or another it is not for me to actually use. On other occasions, I may use something I read almost everyday. It just depends. Again, naming the book you are referring would help us having an intelligent dialogue.

 

[chriswiehl]

and this applys in many ways, but many people here are just hobbyests. so they would never usually use anything in a real situation. yes there are hobbiests who do go out and perform but many people here are not.
for me its a, yea its neat, but i never use it. thats what i tell ppl who ask me about something.
but over all alot of people who are into magic dont usually perform that much. usually if its a job, you'll perform more, but many people here do not perform much, maybe twice a month.
but i agree. i hate reading things that say, oh lots of info, its a good book. i really need to know if it is practical and usable and what not.

 

[chriswiehl]

Oh BTW he is talking about the October 1970 issue of playboy, the first issue with identical twins in the centerfold. enjoy

 

[RikAllen]

Perhaps he wants to leave the book unkown so you'll think about all the books you've read and not used valuable information out of. If he just names the book, you'll immediately miss the point and think of something you have used from it to seem superior.

I have no idea what book you're talking about. If I do own it and misuse (don't use) the information from it, I apologize for owning it. I can't think of a book that I both own and don't constantly reference in practice/notes/real life though. (My library is small...)

 

[Sherlock]

Why would you be sorry, the artists publish it for you to purchase. How you use the information is completely up to you, if it goes to waste then w/e. I have bought effects that I no longer use and are probably great. Freedom is a great privilege is it not?

 

[RikAllen]

Why would you be sorry, the artists publish it for you to purchase. How you use the information is completely up to you, if it goes to waste then w/e. I have bought effects that I no longer use and are probably great. Freedom is a great privilege is it not?

They actually publish their hard earned work to share with you and help advance your magic. The money does supplement their income, but most creators are also performers at private parties and resturants.

Not every book is written for 'effects' either. Many effects just don't fit peoples style or the angle their going for, but books on theory or presentation are meant to be soaked up and used thoroughly.

 

[Mr.MadMan]

Thank you prae for bringing this up.

And also the first response clearly shows what kind of a thinking we have in these forums. Lets try to be reasonable.

Anyways, books/DVD´s/ebooks/Lectures and whatnot are not meant for collecting, saying that you have it but never understanding the point and more importantly not even trying to use it.

Yes there are things you don´t want to use but if you are a young boy in his teens(hey thats me) then try out everything you can. I got to the point right now that im interested in History and literature.

A nice quote i used in a forgotten article that i wrote 3 or 4 days ago:

"Experience teaches only the teachable"

-- Aldus Huxley

A great example of what is being done with books right now.

Did you know that when someone released a book 40 years ago it took 10 years to circle around the globe?

It happens in a matter of milliseconds now. Grasp that for a second...

1970 - 10 years
2009 - 1.219832418274(totally random numbers after 1) milliseconds

Think about how that has affected our look at books, DVDs and what else.
At those times when you got a book you went to the basement with a candle and read it in secret till you had all the sleights down and you coudlnt get them wrong and the you came out. After that being totally white in the middle of summer you did street magic and wowed the heck out of crowds.

People actually took pride in performing, they put on their silly top hats and gloves. They spent an hour putting on shoes, ties and pants. Not to mention the prop set-up.

People looked goofy and they were proud of it. Now look at us:

quote...
"I think that a top hat is silly im going for a ripped t-shirt and broken jeans".


Yeah well guess what, YOU ARE A HOBO!
Sorry about that could not resist

Anyways, we have lost the sense of getting good material which we could grasp and look at as a bible. The flow of idiotic garbage that flows through the market is tremendous. And those that are good are kept from the eyes of those who cant lift their bums to see daylight. They are kept for those who are worthy.

What ever happened to Mundus Vult Decipi, Ergo Decipiatur?
(The world wants to be deceived, let it be)


Mikk.

 

[Sherlock]

They actually publish their hard earned work to share with you and help advance your magic. The money does supplement their income, but most creators are also performers at private parties and resturants.

Not every book is written for 'effects' either. Many effects just don't fit peoples style or the angle their going for, but books on theory or presentation are meant to be soaked up and used thoroughly.

Even when you pay for something it is up for you to use it. I have found some great advice from books I have received but the advice isn't for me. Same thing that goes for effects goes for performance and presentation advice and tips.

If you get a chance to read Bob Cassidy's fundamentals he states advice from other mentalists and while it is good advice he disagrees with it and does it his own way. Great advice doesn't need to relate to you but instead have a relation to what it's trying to convey for the intended audience.

 

[Luis Vega]

Thank you prae for bringing this up.

And also the first response clearly shows what kind of a thinking we have in these forums. Lets try to be reasonable


Mikk.

All I´m saying is that everybody does what they want with their belongings, it´s not a matter of what kind of thinking I have, but if somebody comes and tells me "Oh My god!! you have a Dodge Viper and you only run it from school to your house at 20 mph, I´m really angry with you!!because you are wasting that car" I´ll tell that people the same "It´s not you bussiness is my car!!!"

is true that the books are very overrated nowdays, but if he is angry with everyone else who purchased the book, it doesn´t make any sense to me because as somebody say above... freedom is a great thing!!.

I usually read a lot of books and not only magic books and he is right about the information inside those books... but getting angry because the other people don´t like it or look down at them...well is just dumb, is like getting angry with people who doesn´t like the same music as you

do you really think I´m wrong about that?

 

[Luka]

Honestly, Who Cares? If you waist money on a book that you dont read and rarely refer to, no matter how good it is, its their lost. So in the end, who cares?

 

[Brad Henderson]

praetoritevong,

for what it's worth, I understand.

I once knew a magician who, when asked how many tricks he knew, would proudly and loudly proclaim the sum total of the number of items taught on the dvds he owned.

When handed a deck of cards, a rope, or coins he fell silent.

Brad Henderson

 

[Randy]

They actually publish their hard earned work to share with you and help advance your magic. The money does supplement their income, but most creators are also performers at private parties and resturants.

Not every book is written for 'effects' either. Many effects just don't fit peoples style or the angle their going for, but books on theory or presentation are meant to be soaked up and used thoroughly.

Eh, Not really. Specially now day's when just about anybody has a book out there and more than anything they are putting out there material so they could earn some money with it. I doubt that a lot of magic/mentalistism book publishers go 'Gee, I REALLY want people to use everything I put into the book." Most are happy with the fact that they get royalties from it.

The one thing about Magic and Mentalism is that you really need to experiment with it. You can't let one person tell you how to do this or how to do that. You have to find all that out yourself. IE: You have to earn your own pilot miles. Sure some advice can be good. But the main thing is that it's generally up to you what you get out of it. If you enjoy buying new things and simply practicing at home for the sake of it. (IE: It is used as a sort of meditation or relaxation.) Than more power to you.

 

[praetoritevong]

I can't stay long now so I'll just briefly respond to a limited number of posts so far.

So what?!!!! everybody can use their properties the way they like, also I think that is ridiculous you speak about this book and don´t even bother to say the name and say "Oh check this book, is really great!! you should take a closer look" but asume that everybody just look down at the book


I mean, do you even know this people? how do you know they don´t use it? just because they are not so excited as you doesn´t mean they aren´t using it.... everybody use the book the way they like and you can´t do anything about it


You Can´t Tell People How To Feel About Something...You Just Can´t
if they look down at it, it´s not your bussines! they bought it and they can do whatever they want with it, if they want to use it as toilet paper (no pun intended on the book) it´s still their book and not your business!!

Peace Out

You've missed the point. Re-read the OP until you understand what I'm saying.

Not quite sure what you posted about. People not using the book the way you do?

I guess you are assuming because of the way they wrote down their review that they don't use it which is just absurd. I'm sure quite a few of them use the stuff it if it's that great, assumptions is the mother of all failures.

Same as above. That's not even close to what I was posting about.

I understand the point you are making but it really makes no sense to not name the book. At a minimum, it takes people's attention away from your chief point. Further, by naming the book, the community can probably add their own experiences on how they use it. Finally, if the book is as valuable as you say, how about recommending it to us.

From my own experiences, I have read books where I found something very interesting and I fill richer with the knowledge but understand for one reason or another it is not for me to actually use. On other occasions, I may use something I read almost everyday. It just depends. Again, naming the book you are referring would help us having an intelligent dialogue.

I don't recommend the book, because I believe in the power of research. If you find the book when you're ready, you'll benefit from it the most. If I tell you exactly what to learn and where, then I'm giving you short cuts. There are no short cuts here, not if you want to learn properly and get the most out of the book you can. Magic is only entertaining if you find it interesting. The best way to make it interesting to you is to do your own work developing and researching. There's nothing quite like the pride in performing something you've developed yourself, through your research, your work, and it shows through a more vibrant performance.

and this applys in many ways, but many people here are just hobbyests. so they would never usually use anything in a real situation. yes there are hobbiests who do go out and perform but many people here are not.
for me its a, yea its neat, but i never use it. thats what i tell ppl who ask me about something.
but over all alot of people who are into magic dont usually perform that much. usually if its a job, you'll perform more, but many people here do not perform much, maybe twice a month.
but i agree. i hate reading things that say, oh lots of info, its a good book. i really need to know if it is practical and usable and what not.

There we go, now someone's getting it. It's not about what people think of the information, or how they use it. It's about actually using it.

Perhaps he wants to leave the book unkown so you'll think about all the books you've read and not used valuable information out of. If he just names the book, you'll immediately miss the point and think of something you have used from it to seem superior.

I have no idea what book you're talking about. If I do own it and misuse (don't use) the information from it, I apologize for owning it. I can't think of a book that I both own and don't constantly reference in practice/notes/real life though. (My library is small...)

As I said to Brehaut: I'm not opposed to people owning the book if they appreciate and use the information. And the way it'll benefit them most, is if they found out about it.

Tom Baxter once had a card placed down in front of him by a mentor, and asked to think of a card. He thought of the 3 of Clubs. He turned the card over, and it was the 3 of Clubs. He didn't ask his mentor how it was done. He asked where he could start researching it. His mentor told him Erdnase.

From that one, well-phrased question, I consider Tom amongst the most proficient and knowledgeable about "Think of a card" forces alive today. He certainly has a well-deserved reputation and place at the top of the industry. The work he has done developing his techniques is astounding. He has taken the techniques perhaps further than anyone else, further than Berglas, than Dingle, than Erdnase. He has taken his mentalism this far because he did his own research, on something he was passionate about - and found everything when he was ready.

Why would you be sorry, the artists publish it for you to purchase. How you use the information is completely up to you, if it goes to waste then w/e. I have bought effects that I no longer use and are probably great. Freedom is a great privilege is it not?

And you wonder why we have YouTube kiddies bagging out Card College? Apathy is one sign of a poser in the art.

Thank you prae for bringing this up.

And also the first response clearly shows what kind of a thinking we have in these forums. Lets try to be reasonable.

Anyways, books/DVD´s/ebooks/Lectures and whatnot are not meant for collecting, saying that you have it but never understanding the point and more importantly not even trying to use it.

Yes there are things you don´t want to use but if you are a young boy in his teens(hey thats me) then try out everything you can. I got to the point right now that im interested in History and literature.

A nice quote i used in a forgotten article that i wrote 3 or 4 days ago:

"Experience teaches only the teachable"

-- Aldus Huxley

A great example of what is being done with books right now.

Did you know that when someone released a book 40 years ago it took 10 years to circle around the globe?

It happens in a matter of milliseconds now. Grasp that for a second...

1970 - 10 years
2009 - 1.219832418274(totally random numbers after 1) milliseconds

Think about how that has affected our look at books, DVDs and what else.
At those times when you got a book you went to the basement with a candle and read it in secret till you had all the sleights down and you coudlnt get them wrong and the you came out. After that being totally white in the middle of summer you did street magic and wowed the heck out of crowds.

People actually took pride in performing, they put on their silly top hats and gloves. They spent an hour putting on shoes, ties and pants. Not to mention the prop set-up.

People looked goofy and they were proud of it. Now look at us:

quote...
"I think that a top hat is silly im going for a ripped t-shirt and broken jeans".


Yeah well guess what, YOU ARE A HOBO!
Sorry about that could not resist

Anyways, we have lost the sense of getting good material which we could grasp and look at as a bible. The flow of idiotic garbage that flows through the market is tremendous. And those that are good are kept from the eyes of those who cant lift their bums to see daylight. They are kept for those who are worthy.

What ever happened to Mundus Vult Decipi, Ergo Decipiatur?
(The world wants to be deceived, let it be)


Mikk.

Thanks for that Mikk. Well said.