Levitation - Real or Not?

[praetoritevong]

To be fair, Cedric is the only person who has come out with insults. I have responded at every step without insults. If you feel that this is bashing, or that that needs to be calmed down - then I would humbly suggest that you grow some thicker skin. If you feel that you cannot tolerate harsh criticism, ignore my posts. If it really offends you, then... tough. I'm not really sorry, to be honest. You don't have a right to not be offended. But I will say this - not everything critical is bashing.

Secondly, to address the ethical issue mentioned by Keo:

Keo, you said: "Second of all, Cedric really wasn't in the wrong in asking where the hell to find the effect. If I were doing the invisible deck on a youtube video and someone asked me the secret to the effect, first off I would direct said person to a place where they can find out how to perform the effect. I would not claim it as my own trick."

Yes, that is correct. And in that context, all that would be perfectly ethical.

The problem is, that is not what has happened here. In this situation, Cedric has asked the performer how to perform the effect, and the performer has refused to tell him. Cedric was not wrong to ask the performer where to find the effect. He was wrong to go behind the performer's back, disrespect his wishes, and try to find out the method.

Answer me this: If I went to, say, a Chris Kenner show, recorded every effect he performed, came onto the forums, and asked where each of his effects came from intending to perform them, do you really think that's ethical? If Chris Kenner himself then posted his wishes for his material not to be shared, would that be ethical?

I hope that your answer is no. If it is not, then I have nothing further to say, and your answer will speak for itself.

And finally - I am not for one moment contesting that the YouTube person is an idiot, or lying. But like it or not - Cedric saw his performance, and decided that he wanted to perform that exact effect. This is stealing.

 

[n0va_jason]

And finally - I am not for one moment contesting that the YouTube person is an idiot, or lying. But like it or not - Cedric saw his performance, and decided that he wanted to perform that exact effect. This is stealing.

Cedric has all along been asking for one thing. Exposure. At least that's how I have come to see it. Sure the levitation looks darn sick and all, but that doesn't necessarily allow us to come to a conclusion on whether or not it is real. In fact, only those who know the method can arrive at this conclusion. We, as spectators, on the other hand cannot.

My point being? Cedric, you, who do not know the method, cannot come to these forums and start demanding for exposure. Meanwhile anyone else, who might know the method, cannot give it to you. Why? Because the original creator of the move has already denied you the method, it'll pretty much be safe to assume that he has not permitted anyone else to do so.

no i'm not asking for exposure, just where it can be bought...or found.

Yes I understand that you are seeking to buy the levitation trick. But coming here to ask for something that may be original to someone else, that's asking for exposure. He doesn't want to sell it, why ask for more? If you too feel that this move is original to the creator on youtube, you should not be asking for more. He has already denied you. My advice? Look for other sources. I know Ellusionist sells levitation DVDs, why not get it from there? The methods may be different, but come on. You're levitating anyway. If you think those aren't as good as that particular youtube fella, then you can just keep on asking him to sell you the trick. Don't come here for it. These forums are not meant for exposure. And they never will be.

To be fair, Cedric is the only person who has come out with insults. I have responded at every step without insults. If you feel that this is bashing, or that that needs to be calmed down - then I would humbly suggest that you grow some thicker skin. If you feel that you cannot tolerate harsh criticism, ignore my posts. If it really offends you, then... tough. I'm not really sorry, to be honest. You don't have a right to not be offended. But I will say this - not everything critical is bashing.

If anyone has read the whole thread in detail, you will note that Praeto has not been throwing words with sole intentions to despise Cedric. He has all the while, in fact, been throwing facts. He is repectable in our community and his words will not be taken as insults for no reason. I find it almost impossible to disagree with Praeto on his basis where he calls Cedric's actions unethical. Why? Because his actions are exactly so.

 

[tokyoUW]

According to this guy, the likes of myself, Banachek, and The Pendragons has offered money but we've all received the same answer saying that he can really levitate.


-]

I thought this was funny. Does anyone else get the subtle nuance of "I am equal to Banachek and the Pendragons" ?

And another thing Mr. Cedric. You over use the ellipsis more than any human being I have ever seen. Not to mention you over use the ellipsis incorrectly. A proper ellipsis has three repeating dots, not four, the way every single one of your post contains.

You should also capitalize the first letter of peoples' names too.

I am of the strong feeling that more time spent paying attention in school will take you a lot further in live than your current mission to discover the method behind this levitation.

 

[JDENredden]

I must say though that levitation (from that angle at least) looks pretty darn good. And one of the best I have seen. I would love to see this done in different angles and looking underneath him etc.

J.

 

[Sk8r_St3v3]

Its most probably camera work/editing. I can easily do the same thing on After Effects and make it look realistic, it just involves tracking the guy pretending to levitate whilst on the ground and then cutting out the back ground and placing it on an empty shot of the place, and just animating the top layer to move...

Other than that i don't have a logical explanation, apart from some kind of pole or whatever behind him, if he refuses to show it full circle its obviously just an illusion.

 

[Infected]

Has anyone seen RayWilliamJohnson videos on youtube? If you had then you will understand this reference:



FAKE AND GAY!

Several reasons:

1.- Why are his legs so stiff?

2.- Why aren't they showing WHATS BEHIND OF HIM?

3.- All the videos start just when he starts "levitating" and when he "descends"

4.- If it is magical powers granted by thor wich can be applyed anywhere, why don't I see live performances? hell if I could this for real I would do it and record myself at the mall all day long.

5.-"According to this guy banachek and some others have offered him money" WTF? is there anyway to contact banachek and have a straight answer? obviously not, I could say that Lady Gaga wants to use some of my written songs and nobody would be able to verify it.

6.- Is a stated fact that you cannot levitate using black. Is a fashion crime (only point where I'm joking)

Now there is your FAKE section of the day, why is the video GAY?

I don't know you, but I don't like videos where half the video are fake levitations and the other half are vanity pictures from a guy that wants to look like boy george.

as I said.

FAKE AND GAY.

Peace out homie.

You got something against gay people?

 

[Bill Charlton]

David Blaine makes levitation look so real :O

 

[KeoSilver]

I thought this was funny. Does anyone else get the subtle nuance of "I am equal to Banachek and the Pendragons" ...I am of the strong feeling that more time spent paying attention in school will take you a lot further in live than your current mission to discover the method behind this levitation.

God what the hell are you or do you think you are? As I tell all grammar natzis who talk down to someone else, STFU! Glad you are a teacher, but you are an arrogant high and mighty sounding A-hole. Keep your mouth shut, I like ya better that way.


"Answer me this: If I went to, say, a Chris Kenner show, recorded every effect he performed, came onto the forums, and asked where each of his effects came from intending to perform them, do you really think that's ethical? If Chris Kenner himself then posted his wishes for his material not to be shared, would that be ethical?"

Yeah I wouldn't do that because A) I can't pull off a Chris Kenner. B) That is a lot of work. C) it is unethical to an extent and let me explain why.

I deliberately used the example of an invisible deck. An invisible deck is well used in the magic community. Same as a pass in card magic. You are basically telling me that if I see someone perform the, lets bringing it back to stage work, Origami illusion and I want to buy it. I ask the guy who owns it if I can purchase it from them, they say no then I find out that Jim Steinmeyer sold the rights to an illusion builder and then I go purchase it from that authorized dealer. Am I unethical for performing the Origami illusion even though the performer said no I couldn't?

This levitation is used and has been sold in many many forms. Heck, the principle is even used at children's playgrounds. You don't find them much anymore because kids have become stupider, or parents have become more protective, and had most of the play things removed because they are unsafe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMXjOlkeHoc

"I hope that your answer is no. If it is not, then I have nothing further to say, and your answer will speak for itself."

You are so confident that your opinion is completely right that, when I say "No you are wrong" you'll just turn a blind I and shut it out? Come on!

"And finally - I am not for one moment contesting that the YouTube person is an idiot, or lying. But like it or not - Cedric saw his performance, and decided that he wanted to perform that exact effect. This is stealing."

Refer back to the long paragraph before the hyperlink.

To further my previous thoughts. If I were to go up to Mr. Copperfield and slap millions of dollars in his face to know the secret of the Laser chopping illusion, then get turned down, then take the same millions of dollars and create the illusion (or a version of it) then perform it, NOW I am being unethical.

Why? A) the illusion is not for sale to the general market. B) it's unethical and an example of where imitation has gone past flattering. Z) It's Copperfield. You or anyone can't compete with the hair blowing, fog shrouded, hunka hunka burning love, that Copperfield is. So stage illusionist who have long musical dancing pieces before the actual effect, stop with the fracking dancing and get on to something new!!

 

[KeoSilver]

Its most probably camera work/editing. I can easily do the same thing on After Effects and make it look realistic, it just involves tracking the guy pretending to levitate whilst on the ground and then cutting out the back ground and placing it on an empty shot of the place, and just animating the top layer to move...

Other than that i don't have a logical explanation, apart from some kind of pole or whatever behind him, if he refuses to show it full circle its obviously just an illusion.

You know, you are very right, this could be a plausible explanation onto how this works. However do to the dog walking behind the man in the beginning I would say it was more chroma key then masking.

But that isn't my point, my point is video edits and photo edits are excelling at an amazing rate. At one point it may get to a point where it is so hard to tell whether or not media is fact or fiction that soon it may have to be taken with a grain of salt or completely discredited all together. IDK soon we can all be masked into celebrity sex tapes haha.

 

[KeoSilver]

Cedric has all along been asking for one thing. Exposure. At least that's how I have come to see it. Sure the levitation looks darn sick and all, but that doesn't necessarily allow us to come to a conclusion on whether or not it is real. In fact, only those who know the method can arrive at this conclusion. We, as spectators, on the other hand cannot.


My point being? Cedric, you, who do not know the method, cannot come to these forums and start demanding for exposure. Meanwhile anyone else, who might know the method, cannot give it to you. Why? Because the original creator of the move has already denied you the method, it'll pretty much be safe to assume that he has not permitted anyone else to do so.

[You can't come on a forum without knowing actual facts about the subject and say that someone is in the wrong for asking about something you yourself don't fully understand! You contradict yourself good sir. FIRST OF ALL!!! This guy is not the original creator of ****! I knew the workings behind this levitation before David Blaine did something similar to it!]

If you think those aren't as good as that particular youtube fella, then you can just keep on asking him to sell you the trick. Don't come here for it. These forums are not meant for exposure. And they never will be.

[Who is to say that discussing magic principles is exposure? We do it all the ****ing time, talking about double lifts, physics of levers and gizmos [Hint to what the fricking methodology is], etc! Please don't tell me that a double lift is different then an actual theory onto how the levitation is performed, it aint.]


If anyone has read the whole thread in detail, you will note that Praeto has not been throwing words with sole intentions to despise Cedric. He has all the while, in fact, been throwing facts. He is repectable in our community and his words will not be taken as insults for no reason. I find it almost impossible to disagree with Praeto on his basis where he calls Cedric's actions unethical. Why? Because his actions are exactly so.

[Oh wow, so since he is well respected, you should take everything he says as truth? What a stupid way to do things.]

In case you missed it, my responses are in red.

 

[demon5magic]

...I feel that there's way too much tension in this thread. Here, this should help.

 

[Justice]

You got something against gay people?

Nope, as I said that's a quotation that the guy in the show uses when he deals with fake viral videos

Wich by the way he uses it in a way that resembles trolls (wich adore those two words), so yeah, I was trolling

 

[n0va_jason]

To demon5magic, that's a really nice picture, got me laughing. Getting to the point here...

In case you missed it, my responses are in red.

No, I haven't missed anything. In case you didn't realize yet, I can differentiate red from grey pretty much very well thank you very much.

FIRST OF ALL!!! This guy is not the original creator of ****! I knew the workings behind this levitation before David Blaine did something similar to it

Hear this. I made one mistake. Don't come barking at me like I made ten. Anyway, when you quoted me you missed out a small part. An important part as I see it. I wouldn't wanna say you did it deliberately, because you might not have, so I won't. Here it is. "My advice? Look for other sources. I know Ellusionist sells levitation DVDs, why not get it from there? The methods may be different, but come on. You're levitating anyway." Look. I didn't say that the youtube video was the only levitation method. Nor did I say that you didn't know about levitation. Nor did I say that levitation was a total secret. I said Cedric can look for other sources. Simple as that. Moving on.

Who is to say that discussing magic principles is exposure? We do it all the ****ing time, talking about double lifts, physics of levers and gizmos [Hint to what the fricking methodology is], etc! Please don't tell me that a double lift is different then an actual theory onto how the levitation is performed, it aint.

I'm only gonna say this. This is a public forum, and if you're asking for ways to do levitation, or perhaps a double lift as in your example, that's wrong. Look mate there's no reason for me to disagree that your "double lift is different then an actual theory onto how the levitation is performed", but you're missing the point here. He's coming onto a public forum to ask for a method to doing a trick. The only reason I directed Cedric to sites such as Ellusionist is because there are DVDs that are legit and authorised in teaching the art of levitation. Same goes for the double lift. If I don't know how to do it, I'd go ahead and get a 1on1 off Theory11. If you know the way to do it, go ahead and teach Cedric, I'd gladly see that similar to torrenting a DVD off the internet. That's stealing, by the way.

Oh wow, so since he is well respected, you should take everything he says as truth? What a stupid way to do things.

Pardon me for this man. Maybe you see stuff differently. I never said I take his words as truth. I said "his words will not be taken as insults for no reason". Why? Because his words deserve to be read in-depth. You, my friend, are reading off surface level. Actually, the same goes to you. I respect you. That's why I read your posts in-depth and try to fully understand the point you are trying to make. That's why I take time to reply to you. But you have come around and called this a "stupid way to do things". Why I ask? In my perspective, if this were stupid, then it'll be stupid to be replying you so calmly. Get a grip mate.

I ain't dissin' you or whatnot, I'm trying to make a point. Cedric should be looking for legit DVDs that sell the method of levitation. Not coming to forums to ask for the method where people aren't authorized to teach. Before I conclude this, let me pose you one question. What's the point of magic if all the secrets were leaked?

 

[KeoSilver]

No, I haven't missed anything. In case you didn't realize yet, I can differentiate red from grey pretty much very well thank you very much.

Glad you can. I am color blind, moving on.


Hear this. I made one mistake. Don't come barking at me like I made ten. Anyway, when you quoted me you missed out a small part. An important part as I see it. I wouldn't wanna say you did it deliberately, because you might not have, so I won't. Here it is. "My advice? Look for other sources. I know Ellusionist sells levitation DVDs, why not get it from there? The methods may be different, but come on. You're levitating anyway." Look. I didn't say that the youtube video was the only levitation method. Nor did I say that you didn't know about levitation. Nor did I say that levitation was a total secret. I said Cedric can look for other sources. Simple as that. Moving on.

Nah I left it out deliberately because it wasn't focusing on the things I was addressing. Namely the ethics discussion.


I'm only gonna say this. This is a public forum, and if you're asking for ways to do levitation, or perhaps a double lift as in your example, that's wrong. Look mate there's no reason for me to disagree that your "double lift is different then an actual theory onto how the levitation is performed", but you're missing the point here. He's coming onto a public forum to ask for a method to doing a trick. The only reason I directed Cedric to sites such as Ellusionist is because there are DVDs that are legit and authorized in teaching the art of levitation. Same goes for the double lift. If I don't know how to do it, I'd go ahead and get a 1on1 off Theory11. If you know the way to do it, go ahead and teach Cedric, I'd gladly see that similar to torrenting a DVD off the internet. That's stealing, by the way.

Thanks for reeducating me about piracy, haven't stuck my nose into one of those discussions in a while. I am not talking about discussing the exact methodology to do whatever. I am saying that we freely talk about ACR routines talking about the double lift, pass, and what not. Why can't I publicly say to Cedric "Look up the see-saw effect"? Oh did I just expose the method? No not really. Magic has a door but it isn't locked and anyone who really wants to can open the door and find out our secrets.

"If I don't know how to do it, I'd go ahead and get a 1on1 off Theory11. If you know the way to do it, go ahead and teach Cedric, I'd gladly see that similar to torrenting a DVD off the internet. That's stealing, by the way."

That just simply isn't true at all. Passing down magical information from one magician to the other is not the same as the malicious intent of putting up a torrent for thousands of people to download. One to one conversation compared to the couple thousand of people that will download a torrent is completely different for one simple reason. One is called actual mentor/consultation/chatting, and the other is completely malicious and should be stopped.



Pardon me for this man. Maybe you see stuff differently. I never said I take his words as truth. I said "his words will not be taken as insults for no reason". Why? Because his words deserve to be read in-depth. You, my friend, are reading off surface level. Actually, the same goes to you. I respect you. That's why I read your posts in-depth and try to fully understand the point you are trying to make. That's why I take time to reply to you. But you have come around and called this a "stupid way to do things". Why I ask? In my perspective, if this were stupid, then it'll be stupid to be replying you so calmly. Get a grip mate.

Nah I was stating that if you were indeed doing what I wrote, taking everything one individual said as truth, is a stupid way to do things. I certainly have a grip but just needed clarification.

"I ain't dissin' you or whatnot, I'm trying to make a point. Cedric should be looking for legit DVDs that sell the method of levitation. Not coming to forums to ask for the method where people aren't authorized to teach. Before I conclude this, let me pose you one question. What's the point of magic if all the secrets were leaked?"

Just because magic is leaked, which it is, doesn't me that there is no point in magic or that the point of magic diminishes in any way or form. Also as an aside, if you really want to get to the original source of the information, may I suggest that anyone buy the book "Encyclopedia of Suspensions and Levitations" by Bruce Armstrong. It is exactly what the title of the book says it is.

In answer to your question onto what is the point of magic when secrets are leaked? I say the point is, magicians spend to much time guarding an empty safe and not enough time improving themselves, presentation, and creating an overall better time for your participants. Stop caring about guarding the secret of published material, if they didn't want to share it with the community, then they shouldn't have released it on the net and kept to the old fashion one on one speak. Once it is on the internet, everyone knows about it everyone in the entire world has access to that information now. It is pointless to get to bent out of shape.

Silver


Ps

I am not really color blind.

 

[n0va_jason]

Ps
I am not really color blind.

I know that. I won't take this as an insult. Because I would like to think it's not. Well hopefully, it's not. Moving on.

Nah I left it out deliberately because it wasn't focusing on the things I was addressing. Namely the ethics discussion.

Okay I get what you mean now. That being said, I do hope you too will understand that I just want to point Cedric towards a right direction to get levitation methods, instead of asking around in forums.

That just simply isn't true at all. Passing down magical information from one magician to the other is not the same as the malicious intent of putting up a torrent for thousands of people to download. One to one conversation compared to the couple thousand of people that will download a torrent is completely different for one simple reason. One is called actual mentor/consultation/chatting, and the other is completely malicious and should be stopped.

Understood. At least on a major scale. Nonetheless I think that mentoring and consultation involves a certain level of authorization. That is, they are experts on the field and are suitable to teach. Chatting however, is extremely casual, and sometimes could lead to over-exposure, if you get what I mean. With that in mind, I would like to point out that not all of us in these forums are experts in the field of levitation. I will not deny that there will be some, but can I say it is a minority? (Please correct me if I am mistaken, this is but an assumption.) Meanwhile, it will not be right to be asking in the forums. Instead, finding a mentor would definitely solve the situation, just as you have highlighted. Or, he could buy a DVD.

In answer to your question onto what is the point of magic when secrets are leaked? I say the point is, magicians spend to much time guarding an empty safe and not enough time improving themselves, presentation, and creating an overall better time for your participants. Stop caring about guarding the secret of published material, if they didn't want to share it with the community, then they shouldn't have released it on the net and kept to the old fashion one on one speak. Once it is on the internet, everyone knows about it everyone in the entire world has access to that information now. It is pointless to get to bent out of shape.

Honestly, this cannot be argued. At least not for myself. I will not say the same thing for others. Nonetheless, I still stand firm and say this. Magic holds secrets and there will be some which are uncovered to certain people. Take Cedric for example, he hasn't figured out how the youtube fellow does his levitation. However, I will not barge into how he tries to get his hands on this secret. Unless he does something wrong. I feel that asking around in the forums shouldn't be right. You can teach Cedric if you'd like, now I'd have no objections since you've talked about the internet. But note this, there are DVDs made on magic for a reason, to teach. I once again would like to advise Cedric to look into getting these DVDs, instead of asking for the methods on forums. If he has the DVD already, and is having problems, asking for help shouldn't be unethical in any way.

Why can't I publicly say to Cedric "Look up the see-saw effect"? Oh did I just expose the method? No not really. Magic has a door but it isn't locked and anyone who really wants to can open the door and find out our secrets.

Bearing my points above in mind, you may go ahead and hint that to Cedric. But if he comes back to you to ask for the full method? That's wrong. I do hope you understand.

Should anyone see otherwise, I just want to make a point, a point I have reiterated over and over again. Cedric should just go and get the method through legit means such as findign a mentor or buying a DVD. Not come to these forums and start asking for the method from magicians who may or may not be experts in the field of levitation.

 

[James Smith]

Cedric, I believe what you're looking for is The Icarus Effect by Aaron Paterson:

http://www.aptricks.com/product_ie.php

I've always secretly wanted to buy it, but the $395.00 price tag is...a "bit"...much. Also, watch the whole video, there's an open-space levitation at the end. Hope this helps.

Cedric you can find the method in Andrew Mayne's touching sky.

Judging by the descriptions of the levitations in Touching Sky, I don't think that's correct.

Edit: While I'm here, why not jump in on the debate? I request that anyone hoping to argue with me, reads the entire post.

If the magician in the video invented this effect himself, and then Cedric came on here and asked us who he did it, that would be messed up, but that's not what happened. Cedric asked us where he can purchase the effect, if this magician did indeed purchase this effect from somewhere (most likely) and then isn't telling Cedric (who(m?) I assume asked nicely), that's just being a jerk. It's a lot like saying,

"Hey, I got this new popsicle, it's a cross between a watermelon and a crab!"

"Where'd you get it?"

"I'm not telling you!"

If this effect was invented by a third-party, Cedric has done nothing wrong.

Addition 2: If the artist who created the effect wants to market it, this Youtube magician is depriving the artist of a sale.

 

[King Of Spades]

Cedric, I believe what you're looking for is The Icarus Effect by Aaron Paterson:

http://www.aptricks.com/product_ie.php

I've always secretly wanted to buy it, but the $395.00 price tag is...a "bit"...much. Also, watch the whole video, there's an open-space levitation at the end. Hope this helps.

It is definitely not the icarus effect. With the icarus effect you can't go that high and you can't see underneath you from the open area levitation. But that'd be nice though.

 

[James Smith]

It is definitely not the icarus effect. With the icarus effect you can't go that high and you can't see underneath you from the open area levitation. But that'd be nice though.

I guess that's true, but it's very very similar, and would probably satisfy Cedric's request.

 

[MattTarrant]

lol Thought of this when I saw the thread;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDNgmdGMpuY

 

[Cedric Taylor]

I thought this was funny. Does anyone else get the subtle nuance of "I am equal to Banachek and the Pendragons" ?

And another thing Mr. Cedric. You over use the ellipsis more than any human being I have ever seen. Not to mention you over use the ellipsis incorrectly. A proper ellipsis has three repeating dots, not four, the way every single one of your post contains.

You should also capitalize the first letter of peoples' names too.

I am of the strong feeling that more time spent paying attention in school will take you a lot further in live than your current mission to discover the method behind this levitation.

no Bruce told me himself that Banachek, and the Pendragons has asked to buy it. I asked Charlotte and she clearly denied it.