Kids copying me and messing up my tricks.

Jul 13, 2010
526
34
I agree with everyone here.
Some good books you should have a look at are:
- Tarbell Course in Magic
- Any book by John Bannon, James Swain, Stephen Minch, Juan Tamariz and Harry Lorayne. Something that isn´t exposed @youtube much (except the Bannon stuff maybe) but most of it is strong, audience-tested magic.
- One Degree By John Guastaferro. One of my favorite books.

There´re so much more good books with material that´s not exposed @youtube.
Just take a look http://www.vanishingincmagic.com/magic/magic-books/

And get a book about performing magic to improve your skills (plot, presentation, misdirection, psychology etc.).
If you do it right, you may also get away with methods your audience already knows of ;)
 
Apr 27, 2010
229
0
baller08.blogspot.com
BlueSpade -

I hate to break this to you, but from the responses I've read so far, everyone that has responded isn't giving you the right solution. So far what I've read is advising you to do different types of magic, read more magic books, get people to know Joey is the big bad bully, etc.

None of that gets to the root of the problem. If you listen to this advise, your issues will continue in college, at bars, at parties, and eventually at the workplace. As you get out of high school, people aren't going to be as crass as often, but you'll still find yourself performing your tricks and then people walking away after you're done.

The root of your problem is your social reputation. You are only known as a "magic boy" and you're an easy target. What you don't need is more magic. What you need is more respect. And to gain respect you have to have other social outlets and interests that are of higher value than just doing magic tricks.

Many boys use magic to try to get social acceptance and it rarely works out how they imagine. Without the cards and coins, they're still the socially awkward person because they haven't taken the time to gain other social skills. Don't fall into that trap. When you get picked on like that, it is society's way to tell you that you are not respected.

Take up a sport, go to parties, learn to interact with girls...all WITHOUT magic. Make sure you keep up on pop culture, have interesting things to discuss and talk about. Cultivate a cool social circle and let magic become simply ONE of your many talents. When you get to that point, I promise you that when you show magic, no one is going to pick on you and instead it'll increase your social value, not lower it.

You want to be the cool, fun, relaxed, confident guy who also does awesome magic. Right now you're the disrespected guy who is trying to use magic to be accepted. Big difference. And this doesn't just apply to high school, it applies to the rest of your life.

Good luck.
 
Jun 6, 2010
796
0
Nashville, TN
BlueSpade -

I hate to break this to you, but from the responses I've read so far, everyone that has responded isn't giving you the right solution. So far what I've read is advising you to do different types of magic, read more magic books, get people to know Joey is the big bad bully, etc.

None of that gets to the root of the problem. If you listen to this advise, your issues will continue in college, at bars, at parties, and eventually at the workplace. As you get out of high school, people aren't going to be as crass as often, but you'll still find yourself performing your tricks and then people walking away after you're done.

The root of your problem is your social reputation. You are only known as a "magic boy" and you're an easy target. What you don't need is more magic. What you need is more respect. And to gain respect you have to have other social outlets and interests that are of higher value than just doing magic tricks.

Many boys use magic to try to get social acceptance and it rarely works out how they imagine. Without the cards and coins, they're still the socially awkward person because they haven't taken the time to gain other social skills. Don't fall into that trap. When you get picked on like that, it is society's way to tell you that you are not respected.

Take up a sport, go to parties, learn to interact with girls...all WITHOUT magic. Make sure you keep up on pop culture, have interesting things to discuss and talk about. Cultivate a cool social circle and let magic become simply ONE of your many talents. When you get to that point, I promise you that when you show magic, no one is going to pick on you and instead it'll increase your social value, not lower it.

You want to be the cool, fun, relaxed, confident guy who also does awesome magic. Right now you're the disrespected guy who is trying to use magic to be accepted. Big difference. And this doesn't just apply to high school, it applies to the rest of your life.

Good luck.

The almighty baller has spoken. Again, assuming things about the original poster that he doesn't know.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
Maybe try some mentalism? If they do find out how it's done (I doubt they will) but if they do, they most likely wont want to put the effort into it and if they do learn it and try to perform it, they will look like idiots and nobody will think they are reading their minds

No! For Christ's sake, people. Mentalism is not a ****ing shortcut.

The almighty baller has spoken. Again, assuming things about the original poster that he doesn't know.

Don't start. Baller and I both have done more research into social dynamics than you have. He is right about this. And no amount of whiny complaining on your part about how "arrogant" he is will change that. Magic is not the end-all solution to social ills that you people like to pretend it is. You want to deal with heckler like this, you're going to have to improve your social status, level of respect, and people skills in general. Learning more magic ain't gonna cut it.

So I suggest you stop whining and actually listen to a dissenting opinion for once. This little circle jerk of "Hur hur hur! Learn more magic, that'll show 'em!!" needs to stop.
 
Sep 2, 2007
1,182
119
31
Houston, TX
I never said mentalism WAS a shortcut. I said maybe TRY it. There are ways to do some kind of mentalism without having to do months/years of study on Q&A or suggestion or psychology or subtleties. Here lately I have been trying out mentalism and I've decided that I really like it and I am going to work my way through 13 steps. I'm just saying, mentalism doesn't seem so exposed.

Also, I don't agree with you or baller. Y'all are practically saying "So, this kid is going on youtube, learning your tricks and telling people...well that is all your fault for being socially retarted and playing with magic instead of doing other things." Trust me, I go out all the time and don't always do magic. I spend time with friends, family, go to the gym, movies, biking and plenty other things and still, I have the occasional prick that wants to reveal stuff...its called a heckler...we all have them. Besides, he said he is around the age where all the kids think they know everything. I think this heckler is just being an ass to be an ass...maybe because he is jealous, who knows?
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
I never said mentalism WAS a shortcut. I said maybe TRY it. There are ways to do some kind of mentalism without having to do months/years of study on Q&A or suggestion or psychology or subtleties. Here lately I have been trying out mentalism and I've decided that I really like it and I am going to work my way through 13 steps. I'm just saying, mentalism doesn't seem so exposed.

Same thing. You're using mentalism as a shortcut to dealing with a heckler. You're treating the symptom, not the cause.

And try saying this **** to Craig Browning and see what happens. Craig has forgotten more about mentalism that I have ever learned.

Also, I don't agree with you or baller.

Ooh, big shock there.

Y'all are practically saying "So, this kid is going on youtube, learning your tricks and telling people...well that is all your fault for being socially retarted and playing with magic instead of doing other things."

No. What we're saying is that when you have this mentality of, "I'll show him!" you're coming from a position of powerlessness. You want to try and argue that?

Trust me, I go out all the time and don't always do magic. I spend time with friends, family, go to the gym, movies, biking and plenty other things and still, I have the occasional prick that wants to reveal stuff...its called a heckler...we all have them. Besides, he said he is around the age where all the kids think they know everything. I think this heckler is just being an ass to be an ass...maybe because he is jealous, who knows?

It's not the heckler specifically that Baller and I are looking at. Again, you guys are trying to treat the symptom, not the cause. He said that when the heckler comes along, everybody just says, "I know how you did that." It's not fun for them anymore. They're not coming to see him, just the card tricks. If people are not taking your side over the heckler's, that means they don't respect you. You were nothing to them but a card trick delivery system.

You and every other guy in this thread are trying to fight a war of attrition with a guy who already has the upper hand. Baller and I are telling this guy to change the entire dynamic. Which is fighting smarter do you think?
 
Apr 27, 2010
229
0
baller08.blogspot.com
It's not the heckler specifically that Baller and I are looking at. Again, you guys are trying to treat the symptom, not the cause. He said that when the heckler comes along, everybody just says, "I know how you did that." It's not fun for them anymore. They're not coming to see him, just the card tricks. If people are not taking your side over the heckler's, that means they don't respect you. You were nothing to them but a card trick delivery system.

You and every other guy in this thread are trying to fight a war of attrition with a guy who already has the upper hand. Baller and I are telling this guy to change the entire dynamic. Which is fighting smarter do you think?

I hope you fellas see the difference. Someone that understands social dynamics illustrates it the way Steerpike just did.

The "you don't know me/him/her" argument shows immaturity, naivety, lack of experience, social ignorance, or all of the above. I don't need to know the OP's favorite color, how he grew up, what he likes to eat, etc for me to know what the root cause is to the negative experiences he is struggling with.

If I see a homeless person on the street in December in New York, I don't need to know him or how he got there to know he's hungry and cold. A doctor doesn't need to "know you" to diagnose your root problem based on symptoms that you're suffering from.

The great majority of you guys, that have consistent problems with hecklers, all share the same root issues; which is you are trying to use magic to solve your social ills. And as I said before, you quickly find it isn't what you imagined it to be. If you take away your cards and coins, you're still the same person that garners very little social respect.

What Steerpike and I have often said is if you take the time to fill in your social short comings and improve your interpersonal skills (without using magic as a crutch), your magic will become better simply by the fact it'll be better received.

As Aaron Fisher often says, magic is the pictures you create in the spectator's mind. Without the social IQ, the pictures they have will be minimal at best, which is why when you stop performing often times you have nothing else to offer. In the case of the OP, because he is in high school where social reputation is even more sensitive, that translates to not only drawing hecklers but even losing his spectators.

I think this heckler is just being an ass to be an ass...maybe because he is jealous, who knows?

We do. That's why you should read carefully what we're saying, think about it and see how it applies to your every day social life. You're taking stabs in the dark because you don't want to see that the responsibilities lie with the OP to improve his own image and social skills so that he can have better experiences.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
I don't have the knowledge to express any opinion as eloquently or succinctly as baller or Steerpike so this will only be a short reply, but for what it's worth, I completely agree with them based on my experiences in my own life. When you're an interesting person, people come to you because they like you. Magic, mentalism, or whatever you perform, is the icing (and generally far better with cake than by itself).
 
Aug 10, 2008
2,023
2
33
In a rock concert
I don't have the knowledge to express any opinion as eloquently or succinctly as baller or Steerpike so this will only be a short reply, but for what it's worth, I completely agree with them based on my experiences in my own life. When you're an interesting person, people come to you because they like you. Magic, mentalism, or whatever you perform, is the icing (and generally far better with cake than by itself).

+ Agreed.

I also have been wondering all these years. Why do we call them hecklers? Is there a need to divide spectators into categories?
 
Aug 14, 2010
31
0
New Zealand
What I'm not getting is how does Joey know the effect's name? He wouldn't be able to learn the trick and reveal your effects if he doesn't know the name of the trick.
 
Nov 20, 2007
4,410
6
Sydney, Australia
+ Agreed.

I also have been wondering all these years. Why do we call them hecklers? Is there a need to divide spectators into categories?

Sometimes, but often no, which, this time, IS what I've been saying for a while :p

What I'm not getting is how does Joey know the effect's name? He wouldn't be able to learn the trick and reveal your effects if he doesn't know the name of the trick.

No, but I doubt it would be difficult to search via a description of many major card plots, which would then reveal some common methods and sleights in general, which your average magician will probably be using. You could look up ACRs, Triumphs, Sandwiches, etc. this way and end up with a whole bunch of (poorly performed and completely exposed, intentionally or otherwise) sleights.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,241
3
Back in Time
Most people haven't REALLY encountered a TRUE heckler. Which is somebody who is pretty much jealous of what you are doing and out to ruin it for everybody else. These types of people won't just stick with bothering entertainers either. They also are complete asses to cashiers, grocery store workers, fast food employees and everybody else. They're simply out to cause trouble because as Gordon Ramsey would "Their heads are so far up their own asses, they could tell you what they had for lunch last year."

Why don't you simply just go and talk the kid. Find out WHY he is doing all this stuff to you. Once you have an understanding with him, maybe he will respect you more. Because you weren't trying to ruin HIS spotlight as well. Remember the old saying "Know Thy Enemy."
 
Oct 20, 2008
273
0
Austin, TX area
STOP PERFORMING NEW STUFF... get to the basics.

Agreed! I had the same thought but Smoothini put it so much better.

Dover publications of books that you can pick up dirt cheap. Even the stuff that isn't self working is easy enough to understand that I was able to start doing some in a short amount of time. Plus, most of those books are crammed with effects and techniques. Just skim through them and pick up one you really like. Or better, pick up three like Smoothini said.

You'll learn basics and history, which can only help when you perform new effects. You'll learn from miniature libraries so full that the chances of YouTube exposure are greatly reduced. And you'll get them all for less than half the price of most dvds.

I second Smoothini whole-heartedly.
 
Nov 4, 2010
36
0
This is exactly what happened to me 4 years ago. So, I decided to revert to some coin magic. Things like the biting coin and the coin bend were KILLERS.
 
Nov 27, 2010
134
0
BlueSpade -

I hate to break this to you, but from the responses I've read so far, everyone that has responded isn't giving you the right solution. So far what I've read is advising you to do different types of magic, read more magic books, get people to know Joey is the big bad bully, etc.

None of that gets to the root of the problem. If you listen to this advise, your issues will continue in college, at bars, at parties, and eventually at the workplace. As you get out of high school, people aren't going to be as crass as often, but you'll still find yourself performing your tricks and then people walking away after you're done.

The root of your problem is your social reputation. You are only known as a "magic boy" and you're an easy target. What you don't need is more magic. What you need is more respect. And to gain respect you have to have other social outlets and interests that are of higher value than just doing magic tricks.

Many boys use magic to try to get social acceptance and it rarely works out how they imagine. Without the cards and coins, they're still the socially awkward person because they haven't taken the time to gain other social skills. Don't fall into that trap. When you get picked on like that, it is society's way to tell you that you are not respected.

Take up a sport, go to parties, learn to interact with girls...all WITHOUT magic. Make sure you keep up on pop culture, have interesting things to discuss and talk about. Cultivate a cool social circle and let magic become simply ONE of your many talents. When you get to that point, I promise you that when you show magic, no one is going to pick on you and instead it'll increase your social value, not lower it.

You want to be the cool, fun, relaxed, confident guy who also does awesome magic. Right now you're the disrespected guy who is trying to use magic to be accepted. Big difference. And this doesn't just apply to high school, it applies to the rest of your life.

Good luck.

BUT I DON'T NEED TO LEARN HOW TO WIN FRIENDS AND INFLUENCE PEOPLE!!!!!!! trust me this problem is not a result of my social skills. I am respected but it is not only because of magic. It is because I love to make people laugh and I am multitalented. I am involved with other things like track/field, piano. I only do magic when my friends need cheering up or whenever I am begged to. I always Interact with people WITHOUT magic. Joey is trying to expose my tricks not because I have poor social skills but because he is jealous!! One day my friends basically forced me to preform to the upperclassmen. I ended up doing a great job. the problem was the whole hallway was watching as the seniors yelled out things like, "your the best freshman ever" Or "your my new best friend". this obviously got joey jealous and instead of asking me he decided to copy me then try to expose my tricks!!

THE POINT IS: Even without magic I would have what you call "social acceptance" the problem is I cant practice my tricks in school anymore. Next time before you bash somebody on their own thread remember ask questions and dont assume I am some socialy retarded weirdo who cant get freinds.
 
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