★★★★★ // {bulletin} // :: PROPAGANDA : UNVEILED

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by j.bayme, Dec 12, 2008.

  1. #101 ninja, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2008
    i don't see why every one is ******* about the new deck seriously how does it affect you at all you like it great you don't well your life is back to normal, and T11 has only made 3 decks! and at least they aren't just color inversions like E
  2. #102 cm763, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2008
    I'm going to break my response into three easy to follow points for you:

    1) It's not *****ing--it's giving our opinion. Just because these are the Theory11 boards, and just because the name of the deck is Propaganda, that doesn't mean we have to conform to only giving positive reviews of every item they release. We are allowed to give honest impressions of the items they release.
    Also, I'm not sure what you mean by the "you like it great you don't well your life is back to normal" line...are you saying all opinions should be stifled, regardless of what we think of the deck? We should just go on living our lives and not pay any attention to the deck? I'm confused. Either way, I'm not all that concerned, as I'll continue to have an opinion regardless.

    2) "Color inversions", as you call them, are meant to serve as something a spectator can relate to at some level. It gives a familiar feeling, while being served up in a fresh colour scheme.

    3) How does E have anything to do with this release? Seriously, why even bring them up? It sounds like you're trying to use "E" in a derogatory way, despite the fact that E and T11 (and Penguin, as well as so many other magic websites) run in a very similar way (business-wise). It really takes away from your argument when you "take shots" at people like that, especially when executed so poorly.
  3. hmmm,
    This was only a 7 day hype.
    Theory11 made a treasure hunt for us as a game.
    I think that's pretty awesome.
  4. #104 ninja, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2008
    1. ******* is another form of giving your opinion. I'm not saying that you aren't allowed to give your honest opinion but saying your sick of cards, i'm never going to get these and way too much hype, is just unnecessary. if your sick of cards great don't buy them, if your never going to get them great save your money, and hype is just a marketing strategy don't be so damn suprised, it happens everywhere.

    2. as for the color inversions i was just saying at least it is an original design something new to look at which is nice. and i don't think that is what they were intending when they created the deck.

    3. i brought up E because people keep saying T11 is turing into E, i mean wow they have three decks and people get so offended, i hardly ever see anyone complain about E when they come out with a new deck, i don't know something about when T11 releasing a deck or hyping something just offends a lot of people.
  5. #105 cm763, Dec 13, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 13, 2008
    1) Anything that comes out of one's mouth is their opinion, unless it can be substantiated by other, valid, sources. The statements you listed were all valid opinions...just as valid as someone giving praise. As for your final sentence, I could just as easily say "If you like these cards to much great, just shut up and go buy them" (which sounds silly, but then so does your statement).

    2) How are the "color inversions" not unique? Because they use the familiar Bicycle design? Way to look at one aspect of the cards (that's like me saying T11's first two sets of cards aren't clever because they follow the formula that E started off of making black decks). And I absolutely think they created them with familiarity in mind (maybe not for the spectators, but at least for the people buying them), although that's not something either of us can really prove (unless you have access to some conversations with the creators that I don't).

    3) People get just as unhappy with E's marketing strategies as they do anyone else's...it makes people feel like they're being lied to, or led to believe something is greater than it really is (surprise, surprise). And people used to make the E comparison because they both use similar marketing strategies, market similar products (not specifically, I just mean magic products), and have similar artists (or used to--Houchin started off at E, for example). But beyond that, I'm not sure it "offends" anyone that T11 released a deck or that they hyped it up to crazy proportions...I just see a lot of people saying they wish it was something else, or that they're not entirely satisfied with the deck. There was a lot of hype surrounding this event...people just felt underwhelmed with what the item happened to be after all that hype. That's okay, they just won't be purchasing it (or they will, even...like myself, I mentioned that I'm not a big fan, but I'll probably pick up a few decks anyway), but that doesn't mean they can't voice their concerns with the release.
  6. Agreed! I had 6 in the cart and then I noticed it looked like turkeys on the card (see a previous post). So I just emptied the cart. This is just my opinion. But I'm not going to criticize people who may like the design (although this consideration doesn't always seem to work in the reverse). I figure it's the same decision process at T11 that brings us everything here and I think, overall, that process is working fine.
  7. Personally, I don't think Theory11 hyped this as much as people think, everyone who posted in the thread and followed the clues hyped it themselves.

    If you look in the thread JB made the initial post and Andrei replied once more(from my memory). Yes, they were putting up hidden images but, is it their fault people are disappointed for something they built up in their head themselves?

  8. Im not disappointed at all I think it is the sickest deck they came out with yet.
  9. While I'll concede that they didn't directly "create" the hype, per se, they did create the circumstances that led to it (not to mention that I'm sure that creating some hype was the intention).

    It's like saying that giving a drug addict/alcoholic money isn't supporting their habit...after all, you're giving them money, you're not directly giving them drugs or alcohol. (because we all know magicians are card/trick addicts on the forums ;))
    (note: in the above example, it's "enabling" their behavior, which I think would be a better term for what T11 did here...they "enabled" the members to create the hype for them, which was the obvious goal)

    I'd also like to note that I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing...I'm actually quite impressed with their business tactics (the current example, as well as many others--using limited release windows at random intervals to keep people interested in returning often to the site is genius, for example). :)

  10. That's exactly true; I just don't understand how people can get angry and disappointed though if they really gave them nothing to look forward to, just the thought they know it's something. They may have enabled them but, it was the public that came up with these wild dreams of Collab DVD's and books.

    I'm not denying they created hype but, just doesn't make sense that once it ends and people don't like it they blame Theory11 for it.

  11. That, I completely agree with. I see what you're saying now, and I agree that it's silly to lay blame on Theory 11 for not having released what they were hoping for.

    My posts were mainly referring to ninja's problem with the legitimate criticisms about the deck...it seemed as if he was saying that any criticism was not welcome, that T11 was expecting purely praise. I thought that was absolutely silly, as evolution comes not only from what you learn from your successes, but also from what you learn from your downfalls. Without the criticism, T11 wouldn't know which direction to take next time (as it makes sense to follow along with what the majority of people want--while you obviously can't please everyone, the more people you do please the more sales you make, theoretically). :)

    I'm glad we got that sorted out, heh. :)
  12. I said the SNC prize would be some Props.

    Also I ordered 2 I hope they are feel good
  13. Can you explain number two to me because I don't think that spectators care about the color of cards you use.
  14. The colour of cards may not affect them consciously but much thought has been given to the psychology behind colours and also the notion of familiarity which cm763 mentioned. For example, (and I forgot where I first heard this) the notion that red is a more 'shocking' colour than blue. I guess what he means is that though the colour changes, it's an inversion, so it still holds a sense of the familiar - and these little things can often help determine the ease with which a spectator can be pulled into your performance.
  15. Alright, i'm gonna jump in for a moment. I like them. Given the obvious, they look like they're ready for war and that works for me lol. If you don't like them, no one said you have too. People did create most of the hype on there own. For example, the DVD idea stuck around even after Andrei said everyone was way off. That's just my small take on it. I got a deck to see how they handle. Given the outcome I might pick up some more as time goes on.

    ...:eek: Oh yeah, heh heh. I'm new, did I not mention that?
  16. Well, I think they're pretty gross to be honest.

    But whateverrr.
  17. I personally think PROPAGANDA is more than just a deck of cards. Everyone has been saying "all that hype for just cards" and something just doesn't feel finished. Obviously there is something up with "THE BEGINNING" title on the props vid and some people are saying that some of the clues still don't make sense. This may be absolutly false and nothing is coming later related to PROPAGANDA, but i am kind of hoping for more...=)
  18. I very much doubt it.

    Its just the way T11 advertises and promotes.

    I mean 'Milatary Grade'? What the hell does that even mean
  19. Yeah i guess it was just the over exertion of hype that is kinda confusing me.
    As for military grade, that confuses me even more.
  20. Milatary Grade means that they're made to the highest standards avalible. Atleast that's what it's supposed to mean.

    "Printed on an ALL NEW, uniquely modified Tally-Ho card stock"

    That was a huge selling point for me.

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