Discussion in 'Cardistry & Flourishing Forum' started by wZEnigma, Apr 20, 2010.

  1. i'm not saying that there cant be cuts, and i'm not saying that there cant be music. cuts and music are welcome, as long as they don't detract from the cardistry.
  2. but, is there any real way to tell if they are detracting until you remove them and test it? Im not against anyone that says its an art, i just want someone one with a legitimate amount of skill to PROVE that it is a stand alone art
  3. i see your point. but why does it need to be proven?
  4. because until it is we will always have these recurring arguments about wether or not shuffling cards is an artform. So i say, prove it and silence it from here on out
  5. #45 Andrei, Apr 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2010
    There are a plethora of uncut videos around the internet, one more is not going to prove you otherwise.

    That sounds like a fairly low generalization of the art -shuffling cards. Makes it seem like moving our bodies in unusual ways, or painting colors on a piece of paper, pretty dull and overly simplified. It is all relativistic and in that case, two can play that game.

    I would like to argue to the contrary, music is supplemental to Cardistry, not the other way around. We're not music artists, if we wanted to enhance the music, we'd either jazz it up or make a music video. Music certainly serves as an element to make things more interesting, by no stretch of the imagination is it the centerpiece.

    I feel as if you completely disregarded my first post where I clearly referenced examples of why Cardistry is art. To put it simply, it evokes emotion and the thought process. This is true for the audience just as well as the artist/performer.

    The real question is, why is Cardistry NOT an art?
  6. #46 wZEnigma, Apr 26, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2010
    Music is art. Rhythm is a part of music. Therefore, through association, rhythm has to be part of an art. Cardistry has rhythm. The way the cards flow and the packets seem to arrange themselves into pictures, landscapes of playing cards, has rhythm. You can feel a beat each time the packet is rotated in the Tornado Cut. You can see the flight of a card as it's propelled into a fan, seeming to defy gravity.

    Cardistry is an art.

    An uncut cardistry video can have just as much passion as an over-edited Cuso tutorial. Watching a fan slowly form into existence can be amazing. The majestic cascade of cards in a waterfall flourish rhymes with nature. You can imagine the rush of water as the cards trickle down and portray it.

  7. thats what i was saying, and quite often the cardistry becomes a supplement to the music. thats the problem. when the music fulfills that role and nothing more. yes. cardistry is an art.

    ever been to a concert? or listened to the radio? i find it the centerpiece there.
  8. I NEVER SAID Cardistry wasnt an art, I just dont see how one can call something an art when something else is enhancing it. Yeah there are other uncut routines out there, but guess what, the all have music and editing! i want to see BARE BONES cardistry and see if it entices some type of emotion... And if you won't do it, then I'm going to. And I'll make a poll. Not to see whos right, because I never took a side, but just to see how many people think that stand alone flourishes entice emotions.

    Enigma- you seem pretty sure of yourself. Werent you the same one who started this thread wondering if cardistry is an art? and now you are passionately defending that assumption..
  9. I started the debate of whether cardistry is an art. I agree with the statement, I'm just defending my position. If you look at my OPs you can see I don't take a side yet.

  10. Didnt take a side??

    Yeah bro you are real neutral..
  11. Wake up man - I just posted that. When I started the thread, I didn't state my position because I wanted to follow the opinions. Now that I have some views from both sides, I've elaborated on my stance.

    Nowhere on the first 4 pages did I post that.

  12. this goes back to what art is. does something become art when it entices emotion? a Picasso entices no emotion in me. but i'm 179.45723% sure its still art.
  13. When you posted it is meaningless. AFTER having said cardistryis art, you said you had no position on the issue. Pick one Jeesh..

    @ WorldWideMe:

    Why do you say it's art? probably because almost everyone considers it art, so you tend to go with them on the issue. Cardistry is still new and its uncclear wether it is art or not. So we need to decide what the majority opinion is on the matter..
  14. if you read my previous posts on my own definition of art. you would understand that i consider it art.
  15. I read your previous post, and I understand you POV, but how do we know that its the cardistry enticing those emotions!? we are beating a dead horse here, as I keep refuting your points with the same argument, and its legitimate as well. Im convinced that the only way to settle this is to make a video as I said, or better yet, go show some laymen some cardistry and ask them if they think its an artform.

    Ps- IF anyone does the above, please record the answers of the lay people so we can see for ourselves.
  16. I did not man. After I said cardistry is an art, I posted:

    I clearly am saying in my original posts I don't take a side, but in my recent post, I do. So it's not meaningless.

    I said cardistry is an art, and then said in the beginning I didn't elaborate on my stance. That's very clear to me.

  17. This thread doesn't look like it is going anywhere fast.

    You can't define what is art and what isn't art. You can't determine another persons interpritation. What I may think is art others would laugh at. What other people think as art I really don't understand what they see.

    This topic has been talked to death and never really has a concludable result. There is always going to be someone that disagrees, someone that feels differently and talking in threads like these isn't going to change someones thought.
  18. #59 Andrei, Apr 27, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 27, 2010
    With all due respect, I think you have beat that horse to death with the same questions that have been answered on numerous occasions. We all experience some form of emotion when creating something. Most of us have passion behind what we do, it is therefore obvious to us that Cardistry is art. Not all forms of art are concentrated on evoking YOUR emotions (although again, I provided many examples of how Cardistry can be effectively utilized to evoke audience emotion)

    You keep referencing to the same form of Cardistry, no music, no lights, bare bones card manipulation. That should NOT be the premise of your judgement. If you see someone dance in silence in a completely empty auditorium, would that truly help your decision? What about asking to watch every brush stroke of a painter prior to the completion of the painting? This bare bones reference is difficult to evoke AUDIENCE emotion but as far as the artist is concerned, they put their heart and soul into performing and creating! (Which in and of itself, is art)

    All forms of art require additional elements to make them more entertaining, whether its adding lights and a frame to a painting or adding music to a dance. If you want to evoke audience emotion, it will take a lot more than simply dancing with no music, a backflip, or "card shuffling" on a jet black background.

    Although I don't consider myself a performance guru, the majority of people whom I performed for consider Cardistry an art. However, that assessment took a hell of a lot more than showing off my l33t sybil skillz.

    Many things can be considered art, the human element is what defines the passion, dedication, creativity, emotions, etc. Ultimately, whether one considers Cardistry an art is relative and opinion based.

    -Andrei Jikh
  19. First of all, I think it would help if you guys gave your definition of art. You all keep saying "art this and art that" and you are throwing the word like candy wich makes me wonder how many of you do really know what "art" means.

    BTW, I can drink orange juice in a total diferent way that I created when I was sad. And it looks beatiful when I do it at the rithym of music. Drinking orange juice is art.

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