Criss Angel / Twilight

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wallmott, Jun 10, 2010.

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  1. Ok, so the thread "It's Our Fault Criss Angel Is Famous" sadly got closed. I would like to continue a similar discussion. Please keep in mind that this thread is NOT ABOUT CRISS ANGEL and wheater or not he is good or bad or whatever.

    Can you honestly say that magic is getting the respect and recognition it deserves and you would like it to have? I think most would say No and if you take a look where magic is compared to other art forms i think that the answer would be even more clear.

    But when finally a magician gets into the spotlight, why are we so quick to ignore it? When both Baline and Angel first got into the spotlight they both got a lot of crap from the magic community, they were simply not good enough and magicians got bitter at Blaine because he did the same tricks that we all could do and Angel got crap for using edits, stooges and not being good enough with his sleight of hand and people thought that someone else deserved his spot better then him.

    Why does not the thought that maybe they are doing something right that we are doing wrong occur? Why dont we try to learn from them? Why are magicians to proud?

    Magic has been around longer then almost any other art form and magic as a whole still does not get the respect we want it to be and close up magic has changed very little over the last 100 years and from what i can tell its not going forward anytime soon.

    Still, we continue do ignoer the fact that magic is not going very far. Why?
    When are we going to face reality and drop the ego and face the fact what we might need to change? We are not going anywhere, what are we doing wrong? Its time to move forward.

    If you could somehow build a time machine and bring back a bunch of magicians from 50 years ago and mix them in with the magicians who were on Lettermans close up week and let them performe i seriously think that the audience would have a hard time telling who were from our time and who were from 50 years ago. The time in the magic community seems to be standing still. Why dont we move forward?

    And to the part about Twilight.

    Im a film student and i LOVE film and i like to watch everything that i can get my hands on.

    I heard about Twilight and the masive amount of hype surrounding it so i decided to watch it.

    It was one of the worst movies that I have ever seen.

    But instead of just ignoring it and think like most other filmstudents or film lovers would have thought. They would have thought that its just bad because they are way above these kind of crapp movies (which might be true) but its a big misstake to ignore a gigantic sucess like that. So i started to do some research and thinking about why does people seem to love twilight so much? And i found out why.

    A lot of people could connect with the main character Bella Swan, an akward teenage girl who finds the vampire Edward which she falls in love with and becomes obssesed with and nothing becomes more important then to be with him even if its seems like it would be impossible. Most teenage girls can feels some kind of connection with that and that seemed to be an important part of their movie going experience.

    The actor who plays Bella Swan, Kristen Stewart is also becoming a huge star. She is a pretty mediocre actor but everyone now wants to see her movies, even if they dont really think that the movie is interessting. I asked why? The reason is that they like her because they can feel a connection with her. If you watch her in interviews you will see that shes just an akward teenager who is as nervous about being on tv that shes about to die. Thats why people connect with her and watch her movies and she will probably have more viewers then anyone else in the coming years just because of that.

    Its easy being to pround and just ignore things.
  2. This has been discussed before. Check out that thread that got closed and you will several reasons why it's hard to find the parallels.

    A lot of the material Criss performs is seen as damaging to the community, as it encourages the view that magic is accomplished through camera tricks and stooges, as some of the general public are much more intelligent than Criss obviously believes.

    It can also be argued that Criss is both a subpar magician and performer, yet has gained enough attention, fame and money to brand his name on anything and reap the benefits (although not quite as much as he thought; Believe anyone?).

    I'm not necessarily taking these views but it is merely a couple that are expressed. Talk to Mr. Henderson if you want to explore this futher...

    I think we are moving forward. There are many contemporary magicians moving up the circuit. It won't happen in a day though and we have to give influences such as Theory11 time to grow and cultivate a new culture.

    It's funny that you talk about both Twilight and Criss Angel in the one thread. And I guess you're right about Angel doing one thing well. It's the same thing that Twilight have done, market to an impressionable and big audience. Please don't misunderstand me when I say big. It is a narrow and ultimately unfulfilling audience to embrace. Well, for most anyway...

  3. YAY! My two favorite things ,Twilight and Criss Angel...
  4. It does not matter how much Twilight or Criss Angel suck.

    The only thing that matters is that millions and millions of people likes Twilight so ignoring something that millions and millions of people love is plain stupid. Same thing with Criss Angel when he first got into the spotlight.

    Oh well, i did not expect much of a response or any agreement. The magic community does after all live inside a bubble where time seems to stand still. What goes around out in the real world does not seem to matter.

    Did anyone read what people had to say about magicians like Ammar and Carney after their performance on the late show? I went on quit a few forums and most of the commenst were about how lame and cheesy they were and people were asking if they were bad on purpose. And these are the so called masters we are talking about.
  5. Honestly, the reason Blaine and Criss are famous is because of the same thing many people preach about magic, or atleast the people who know what they are talking about and have/do work as magicians. ITS ABOUT SHOWMANSHIP!!!! Its not about who has the best classic pass or who can do an anti faro. If you are a move monkey thats fine, but if you want a working job in magic, spend less time practicing sleights for Youtube and more time creating a working routine, with presentation.

    Seriously, look at the way Blaine creates a character. His mysterious persona will fool people into thinking he can actually do magic, even if the most complex thing he ever does is 2 card monte. Hell, sometimes I still think he made a deal with Lucifer to be able to do real magic. He is that good. He presents his stuff flawlessly. And that's what it's about. I gurantee you that everyone that complained about him were people who saw his double lift and said "WHAT!? My DL is better than his! Look at this guy he probably can't even do a clipshift!" or whatever. But guess what, no one in the real world cares what you CAN DO, but only how much you can entertain them. And that's what it's about, "So make no mistake about it"- Brian Tudor.

  6. again, i doubt this thread will last because you simply revived a locked thread. great plan
  7. Oh look! A dead horse, and someone just left these clubs carelessly laying about. Gosh I wonder what we could do with them?
  8. Please don't misunderstand me. I was suggesting the reasons why both have been received with such substantial fanfare. The truth is many magicians don't want to be as big as Criss Angel, and there simply isn't room on the market for five hundred 'icons' of magic. Criss marketed to a narrow yet large audience, same as Twilight. That is why they are as big as they are. It's that simple.

    While I agree that there are some older magicians that have not updated or maintained relevant performance in our time there are also a substantial amount who have. And again, the change won't occur overnight. We must be patient.

    And Will, I think those clubs were mine, I lost a whole suit trying to do Bannon's triumph. Mind if I have them back? Don't think they'll be that useful for beating deceased Equus Caballus...

  9. Oh man!! not again!! I am tired of this useless threads that end up closed because of the arguments...
  10. Hi Wallmott

    You already know my views on Criss Angel, so ill leave that subject, including the sub-area you are debating here, alone.

    However, i was interested to discover you are a film student, as i am too. Just wanted to ask, are you studying at college or university? Also, i refuse to watch the Twilight films, im surprised [as a film student] you had the guts to brave the cliche soaked beastiality trilogy. Thanks for confirming my opinions :)
  11. Walmott,

    By comparing Criss Angel's success to the success of twilight, what are you trying to convey?

    I've not seen the Twilight movie or read the books. I have read some reviews and I don't think I want to waste my time with them.

    I have made a resolution where I've decided to avoid bad writing as much as possible. I was barely able to make it through the Harry Potter Series because I thought what started as a promising series ended up falling very short in terms of quality of writing and general development of both the story and characters.

    Now, I cannot force people to make the same choice. We live in a world where crap is consumed by millions regularly. In fact, the consumption of crap is celebrated and encouraged. Those who take a contrary stand are either ignored or belittled or misunderstood.

    Such is life. I frankly don't give a damn about being in a minority in these things. If Criss Angel floats your boat, there really is nothing anyone can say which will change your mind. If you think Twilight is worth reading, you probably won't think too highly of someone like Ernest Hemingway or John Steinbeck. An idealist may feel that such a situation needs to be either rectified or viewed with a good dose of perspective.

    I am right now beyond caring about these kinds of things. Just like I am beyond caring about the latest flavor of the month, whether it is magic, literature, music or art.
  12. I'm pretty sure that would be considered self-flagellation. If I want to know about the history of magic, I will talk to Brad Henderson. If I want to know about the landscape of the entertainment industry, what's changing and why, I will talk to Rick Maue.

    The comparison between Angel and Twilight is a valid one. Both have been elevated to stardom because nature abhors a vacuum.

    I have great respect for the success of guys like Michael Ammar. They worked their asses off to get where they are. But they are not particularly good emissaries to represent magic to the general public. But people are still intrigued by magic. And so Criss Angel came in to fill the void, or rather fill the cracks that David Blaine hadn't gotten to.

    Similarly, Twilight targets the teenage girl market, a demographic Hollywood seldom pays very much attention to. To have an entire franchise targeted at them is very rare for this group, so they ate it up. And with very little to compare it to, they had no way of gauging the true depth of its banality and awful writing/acting. It's like selling tainted water to people dying of thirst.

    Criss is not the best emissary of magic to the public. But he's what we Americans got because so few were willing to step up to the plate with something fresh and topical.
  13. This is getting ridiculous ... there's a reason the other thread was close ...
  14. I totally agree with you. It's just getting out of hand.
  15. #15 scarecrow1, Jun 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2010
    That is going in my sig.

    Nothing against you Wallmott. I just love that quote.
  16. Hey lucky for you, Wallmott, the internet was invented; otherwise you'd have to sit at home and argue with yourself...
  17. guys, is there a point in saying this thread is stupid? if you dont like the thread just ignore it and let it die. dont bump it up with meaningless posts.
  18. Guys,

    Again, I simply don't see how the discussion of whether or not Criss Angel is famous in the "real world" is relevant to the advancement of our magic. Unfortunately (or rather, fortunately) the topic died three threads ago - largely due to the fact that certain members who label themselves the intellectuals of our community resorted to personally attacking one another.

    Please refrain from posting another topic relating to Criss Angel and his fame (or lack thereof) for the time being - as it's only serving as an outlet for particular members to get in their "last word" and doesn't aid in the progression of the art, in the least.

    Feel free to PM me with any questions. Thanks guys.
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