Get Off Your High Horse...

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May 3, 2008
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I love how off topic this is...
Go off to a chat room if you want to talk about cigs and horses.
As for the main topic...
I disagree with Steerpikes post. The packers were forced to listen to the coach. He was actually a significant figure to the team. Here, everyone is nothing to everyone else. Few of us really know each other in person so we don't care if we embarass or disgrace them. There are no actual consequences. What you say may be useful, but the said egotistical ones will just discard it as you are just another name to them, nothing else. As noticed before, this is the internet. We can say what ever we like, you can't find us, thus you can't do anything. The packers get yelled at, they get legitamate punishments. What can anyone here do? swear? talking in stars and symbols? It makes no difference at all. I am so sure that many of the forumers just argue here just for the fun of it. Its like a beautiful chance to majorly outsmart someone with the guarantee that there is no consequences.
As for the actual topic at hand...
I don't think you can do much about it... Thats just people. Its just like youtube tutorials, trolls, and spammers. What ever you do, there will always be some. Although attempting to change them might work once in a while, I doubt it would work continously. A happier environment and kinder attitude would definitely help the persuasion, but as said before, it really won't make a drastic difference.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,818
15
I love how off topic this is...
Go off to a chat room if you want to talk about cigs and horses.

Or we could just beat them like a crying child in a department store.

I disagree with Steerpikes post. The packers were forced to listen to the coach. He was actually a significant figure to the team. Here, everyone is nothing to everyone else. Few of us really know each other in person so we don't care if we embarass or disgrace them. There are no actual consequences. What you say may be useful, but the said egotistical ones will just discard it as you are just another name to them, nothing else. As noticed before, this is the internet. We can say what ever we like, you can't find us, thus you can't do anything. The packers get yelled at, they get legitamate punishments. What can anyone here do? swear? talking in stars and symbols? It makes no difference at all. I am so sure that many of the forumers just argue here just for the fun of it. Its like a beautiful chance to majorly outsmart someone with the guarantee that there is no consequences.

That's taking my example a bit literally. My point is that criticism is not a dirty word, nor should it be. Sometimes you have to be hard on people to motivate them. If you're too nice, they won't try to improve because they don't have any incentive to. They already have your approval.
 

RealityOne

Moderator
Nov 1, 2009
3,577
3,848
New Jersey
My point is that criticism is not a dirty word, nor should it be. Sometimes you have to be hard on people to motivate them. If you're too nice, they won't try to improve because they don't have any incentive to. They already have your approval.

There is a difference between being hard on people and attacking them personally.

Steerpike, I don't think you cross that line. You criticize in a colorful and sarcastic manner which often is necessary to get people to pay attention.

Here is an example of what I'm saying:

Criticizing:
You want validation for your hours of work behind the scenes. You want someone to verify that it was all worth it. You want to be rewarded for your blood, sweat, and tears. Just like everybody else.

But you ain't gonna ****ing get it.

Get over it. What your friend did impressed the crowd more. That means as much work as you put into your routine, it lacked something that the Invisible Deck had. And it has nothing to do with it being a gimmick and everything to do with you.

You probably are debating right now what profane names to call me for saying that, but if you think about it... I'm right.

Attacking:
A-Hole said:
You are such a f****** dumb-@ss. That is the most lame thing I've ever heard. What a F*** UP. Seriously dude, if I were you I'd [insert some colorful way to say "go stick your head in a toilet and flush"].

Now there is a point where strong criticism will backfire because the person will become defensive and feel the need to strike back (usually with personal attacks) and thereby become entrenched in their opinions. However, with the personal attacks, that result is all but certain.
 

WitchDocIsIn

Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
5,739
2,854
I love how off topic this is...
Go off to a chat room if you want to talk about cigs and horses.
As for the main topic...
I disagree with Steerpikes post. The packers were forced to listen to the coach. He was actually a significant figure to the team. Here, everyone is nothing to everyone else. Few of us really know each other in person so we don't care if we embarass or disgrace them. There are no actual consequences. What you say may be useful, but the said egotistical ones will just discard it as you are just another name to them, nothing else. As noticed before, this is the internet. We can say what ever we like, you can't find us, thus you can't do anything. The packers get yelled at, they get legitamate punishments. What can anyone here do? swear? talking in stars and symbols? It makes no difference at all. I am so sure that many of the forumers just argue here just for the fun of it. Its like a beautiful chance to majorly outsmart someone with the guarantee that there is no consequences.
As for the actual topic at hand...
I don't think you can do much about it... Thats just people. Its just like youtube tutorials, trolls, and spammers. What ever you do, there will always be some. Although attempting to change them might work once in a while, I doubt it would work continously. A happier environment and kinder attitude would definitely help the persuasion, but as said before, it really won't make a drastic difference.

All it takes to completely change the forum is for the majority of people reading the forums to stop before they post and think, "Is this actually contributing anything?"

To just say, "That's the way it is and it's not going to change" is giving up.

I only read two magic forums regularly, here and Ellusionist. I come here mostly to see what maybe 3 to 5 people are saying, so I end up skipping most of the posts. On Ellusionist I read pretty much all of the posts, because that forum isn't full of negativity. I will probably find something of interest and value in every thread there.

All it would take for that to be true here is for the majority to stop being needlessly negative and put some thought into their posts.
 

jonraiker

vp of development
Staff member
Aug 5, 2007
1,333
19
Florida
instagram.com
Guys,

The amount of unnecessary negativity and profanity in this thread is ridiculous - and kind of ironic, given the original topic.

I've removed a number of posts accordingly. Please refrain from posting if you can't get your point across without resorting to petty insults and language that is not suitable for a forum that is frequented by magicians of all ages.

Thanks in advance.
 
Sep 3, 2007
1,255
0
It is nearly as if the forums are like one of those shows the wife makes you watch.

I'm almost thinking about talking about it at work. "Hey Jim, did you read what happend on T11 last night? Yeah, that guy Steerpike basically wrenched some dude. That dude's psychology was totally wrong but Steerpike told him whasup!"

I could write a book about it.
 

j.bayme

ceo / theory11
Staff member
Jul 23, 2007
2,810
253
New York City
Guys, I'll admit to only reading the first post in this thread, as after that it pretty much seems to have gone completely off direction. The point I'd like to make - and that I believe Draven was making - was to be respectful. Be professional.

We're all in this artform together - a niche community at best - and in order to advance and evolve, it is essential that we work together. That starts with treating eachother with respect and conducting ourselves in a manner fit for intellectual discussion. Yes, it's important that we have some fun in the process - but let's continue to do so in a positive, professional manner.
 
Guys, I'll admit to only reading the first post in this thread, as after that it pretty much seems to have gone completely off direction. The point I'd like to make - and that I believe Draven was making - was to be respectful. Be professional.

We're all in this artform together - a niche community at best - and in order to advance and evolve, it is essential that we work together. That starts with treating eachother with respect and conducting ourselves in a manner fit for intellectual discussion. Yes, it's important that we have some fun in the process - but let's continue to do so in a positive, professional manner.

Thanks JB. Jon. That's exactly what I was trying to get at.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,818
15
The amount of unnecessary negativity and profanity in this thread is ridiculous - and kind of ironic, given the original topic.

The topic is hijacked by a bunch of clowns acting like drunken buffoons and you tell us the problem was a few dirty words? I don't think we see eye to eye on this one.
 

jonraiker

vp of development
Staff member
Aug 5, 2007
1,333
19
Florida
instagram.com
The topic is hijacked by a bunch of clowns acting like drunken buffoons and you tell us the problem was a few dirty words? I don't think we see eye to eye on this one.
Simple solution - report the post(s) and ignore them. They'll be taken care of. When you respond to the madness, it only creates more chaos.
 
Jan 1, 2009
2,249
3
Back in Time
That is where the problem lies tho. Steerpike get's off on adding fuel to fire because he generally often has nothing better to do in life. Plus you guy's (the mods and admins) generally let him get away with, just put "banning" him for a day or so. (Note to you: when you ban somebody for a day, it's banning them or doing much at all to fix the problem. When you "Ban" somebody, they permanently cannot return to the place they were removed from.. )

The other problem is that well it's the freaking internet. No matter how smart or intellectual you try to act. It won't really work out at all. You have no way of proving anything, and for the most part it is usually a bunch of people running their mouths nonstop and then a bunch of others complimenting each other of redundant posts. "I agree" "Good post" "blah blah blah"
 
Mar 4, 2010
90
0
That is where the problem lies tho. Steerpike get's off on adding fuel to fire because he generally often has nothing better to do in life. Plus you guy's (the mods and admins) generally let him get away with, just put "banning" him for a day or so. (Note to you: when you ban somebody for a day, it's banning them or doing much at all to fix the problem. When you "Ban" somebody, they permanently cannot return to the place they were removed from.. )

The other problem is that well it's the freaking internet. No matter how smart or intellectual you try to act. It won't really work out at all. You have no way of proving anything, and for the most part it is usually a bunch of people running their mouths nonstop and then a bunch of others complimenting each other of redundant posts. "I agree" "Good post" "blah blah blah"

I agree. Good post.
 
Nov 11, 2009
194
0
There is a difference between being hard on people and attacking them personally.

Steerpike, I don't think you cross that line. You criticize in a colorful and sarcastic manner which often is necessary to get people to pay attention.

Here is an example of what I'm saying:

Criticizing:

Attacking:

Now there is a point where strong criticism will backfire because the person will become defensive and feel the need to strike back (usually with personal attacks) and thereby become entrenched in their opinions. However, with the personal attacks, that result is all but certain.

In my opinion there is a way to give constructive criticism without sounding like a jerk
if steerpike had not used profanity and had been nicer he could still have told the guy what he wanted to say and the guy most likely wouldnt have reacted that way and my guess is that because of the criticism that steerpike gave that guy ignored him more than he wouldve if he were nice
 
Mar 4, 2010
90
0
In my opinion there is a way to give constructive criticism without sounding like a jerk
if steerpike had not used profanity and had been nicer he could still have told the guy what he wanted to say and the guy most likely wouldnt have reacted that way and my guess is that because of the criticism that steerpike gave that guy ignored him more than he wouldve if he were nice

Exactly. Steerpike is like that on E, he chooses to be different here. Maybe the people don't respond as well to nicety as they do on E and they need a little tough love. Regardless, not everyone is like that here and thus why some people complain about him. It's all subject to different people's views and opinions.
 
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