Guardians... no support?!

Feb 27, 2008
Grand prairie TX
How though...
Havent you been asked when using a Tiger deck "is that a trick deck? why isi t black?"

I can say with complete honesty that no,I havent been asked that. I get "those are sweet cards bro".
I dont like getting caught up in the fear of being suspected for no reason.
Its useless to do so. Since my audience feels no fear in my voice and i dont hold on the cards for dear life like most magicians,they suspect nothing.
Jul 13, 2009
Actually what I read was kind of recent...maybe 6 months ago?

Thanks for the recap and great song. Unfortunately your little summation at the end is a little off. If anything it was the stupid comments like "learn sleight of hand" and something about me only "doing self working card tricks" that got the firecracker lit. I'm usually very calm.

Once again, thanks for the recap!

A lot happens over six months, I may be off a bit on my ending sentence but that is just my opinion. Kind of like how I find this,
"Also, anyway who tells me to get into card splitting. Go away. I don't want to have to split cards. The cards I need and want to use (and I'm sure there are PLENTY of other people) should be readily available." Jupiter

An off statement. You have to work sometimes for magic when you say something like what you said in your last paragraph, you are basically dismissing real help and expect things to just be handed to you. The reason I said the last sentence the way I did was for this reason. If you not willing to work your not going to succeed.
Listen, I totally understand where you're coming from Jupiter. It is annoying when you want to buy some gaffs but they don't have them for your deck. I might only be young compared to some on here but i've been there and done it.

Although you obviously are more bothered about this than others, when I realised that these custom cards are amazing and stuff but why can you only get a double backer for them? and what the hell can you do with a double backer? I thought to myself that in the long run it would be cheaper to just buy bikes and now Phoenixs which do exactly the same job apart from the customs have a fantastic finish on them that no one can tell is there till you hold a bike deck in one hand and them in the other.

I totally get why your annoyed, and I think that JB should have at least said something on this by now or at least pm'd you, but I think that its time to let it go. It isn't going to happen, and if it does it won't be for a while yet. Why don't you ride the Bike or fly with the Phoenix while you wait? I can guarantee that if your magic is good enough it won't matter what deck you use, just as long as you perform well.

Sep 1, 2007
New Zealand
Thanks Simon.

It's got nothing to do with whether I am good enough or how I perform though. I don't actually want to do FASDIU completely non gimmicked tricks. Where would all the greats be without their stacks, and trick decks and wee gimmicks? I really don't like the perception that everything has to be clean decked totally impromptu. I have no qualms with using gaff and utility cards (not directed at your Simon, I appreciate your post a lot)

It's the fact that I hate reading a really awesome trick and wanting to be able to do it, but then finding out what I need to do the trick isn't going to be available, when it seems a logical option that it should be! It just seems like there should be support if they want people to continue to use their cards. Maybe I made a mistake in using Guardians. As someone who ACTUALLY performs magic, and doesn't just post giving advice on a forum (not an intentional shot at anyone) sometimes I might need different types of cards for different effects. It's just a real shame not to have them because I really do love them as cards and don't want to stop using them. But I am getting a bit weary of running into the same problem over and over.

I agree that I should have been PM'd, since one I sent has gone unanswered, or someone at least reply to this thread.

And Keok, you are quite right in that my statement about card splitting was off. Thanks for your replies

Still awaiting a PM or reply from someone :)
May 3, 2008
I honestly don't understand the hostility. Using gaffed cards doesn't mean he has any less skill. You try doing an Anniversary Waltz routine without a double faced card.
It's not a bad idea, but probably not going to happen. Doesn't hurt to make a suggestion.
Nov 15, 2007
Raleigh, NC
I agree with Keoke, not the first time, about gaffs. If you want gaff cards then you can make them yourself. Ultra-Mental Decks are quite easy to make, as I only ever bought one (before I knew the principle) and realized I could make my own.

I've made DB and DF cards, also experimented with printing on cards. Sometimes you have to take measures into your own hands while companies analyze the demand for products.

While it would be nice to already have these gaffs, maybe make your own for the time being? It could help you creatively, and you could produce any gaff you'd want as opposed to being creative with what they give you.
Blank decks would be nice, you can print anything on a blank deck. o_O (or buy a regular blank deck...split it and splice it with a guardian back...) I don't know, the do-it-yourself bone in my body is pretty strong...
May 3, 2008
Hong Kong
I can say with complete honesty that no,I havent been asked that. I get "those are sweet cards bro".
I dont like getting caught up in the fear of being suspected for no reason.
Its useless to do so. Since my audience feels no fear in my voice and i dont hold on the cards for dear life like most magicians,they suspect nothing.

really? damn. youre a lucky one. First time i used a Tiger deck way back in the day, it got questioned immediatly.
Jul 28, 2009
New York City
When you think about it, Theory 11 has been around for about 3 years, I think 4 in August, versus Ellusionist's I don't know how many years. Ellusionist has been set up to produce all kinds of playing cards, and are appealing to a wider variety of magicians, who are either not fast enough or are lazy (I'm not saying that you're lazy). Because Theory 11 probably doesn't have as big of a base as E does, then they most likely can't produce the cards that they aren't sure are going to sell. Plus, JB was in an Ellusionist video, Kard Klub I think, and I would assume that he got a glimpse of how they work.

To sum up my point, there is a reason that T11 hasn't produced utility cards for any deck, but you have to trust JB's judgement as well as all the other core members on this matter.



Elite Member
Sep 13, 2008
really? damn. youre a lucky one. First time i used a Tiger deck way back in the day, it got questioned immediatly.

I've never had anyone question it either. I just made a post about this somewhere, thought it was in this thread but I guess not. I use all kinds of cards when I perform. Basically whatever I happen to grab on the way out. It has only caused a problem once, and that wasn't because the cards were 'weird.' It was a deck of ghosts, and I did "Pass on Red," which has three red cards selected out of all the black cards in the deck. They didn't realize what had happened, because the black central pips made them think, at first, that they were all black cards.

I really think it comes down to attitude while performing. Since I never treat cards as anything special, people don't think they're anything special. The most I get is, "Those are neat, where'd you find them?"

Act as if you're creating miracles, people will see miracles. Act as if your cards are just cards, people will see just cards.


Elite Member
Sep 1, 2007
I got questioned if my red back bike was a trick deck.
It's a luck of a draw, some people will be asking if that is trick deck regardless and some will take everything you say at the face value.

I suppose custom decks are more prone to the question than the regulars, but that's just part of using custom deck.
Sep 1, 2007
New Zealand
Never ever had my Guardians questioned. It's pretty simple to avoid suspicion in my opinion. Simon was pretty bang on.

Demigod, what you say might very well be correct. I'd just like to hear from the horses to speak. 6 pages and nobody has commented yet? Thanks for your post anyway mang!

Foolzsight, looks like I might have to look in to it. Still waiting a reply to this thread or reply to a PM


Elite Member
Nov 18, 2007
@Keokesilverfang - Thanks for putting him in his place.

Jupiter, I must say, you have been very close-minded throughout the entire thread. You need to learn to communicate more effectively by not offending people and acting so naive.

Stop saying the word "support" in regards to your request - you are trying to make it sound like they don't have support here, when they do. You are requesting a new line of products.

Ok, listen. If they did all that you want for Guardians, it would require a ton of work, and probably a month or two of focus.

They mostly produce videos, so unless they expanded their small team into a larger business, this wouldn't be a wise business decision, as they would need to halt production for a period of time, which could affect their income. I hope you finally realize this and understand why your request is a little unrealistic at the time being. This thread has been read, and I'm sure they have at least considered it.

You seem to want this very bad, so I am just going to tell you what you need to hear. Learn how to split cards.

lol @ the internet.
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