I'm not going to explain this to you. Let's just say that Who you know is a factor in how a lot of entertainers get famous.
It's Our Fault Criss Angel Is Famous
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I'm not going to explain this to you. Let's just say that Who you know is a factor in how a lot of entertainers get famous.
Sorry you feel that way Randy. That's too bad. It's dismissive and completely out of touch with reality.
If this is how most magicians feel about those who have made an impression on the general public, it is no wonder why we are in the stone ages. Sad.
I never said it was a key factor, but it is a factor in how the entertainment business works and always has worked. You can pretty much ask just about anybody who's been doing it for years. Sure there are other things that help it and add to it. (talent, drive, etc etc).
Well i dont know what you are talking about, maybe if you totally suck it would help to date the boss of the record company or tv station. For some maybe.
I think what you are saying are a big insult to the people who have made it. Some of the biggest artists in the whole world have come from very poor familys and have not know ANYONE in the bussines.
And even if you know a lof of people, YOU STILL NEED TO HAVE SOMETHING!
David Copperfield knew no one when he got to New York. David Blaine grew up pretty poor with a single mother working pretty hard to support them.
As a community we have to stop this nonsense. I can't think of any other entertainment medium where the members slam it's own members when they get on a national talk show, get a their own television show, win an award, or in any way make it to the public eye to represent their art.
It's crazy to me. But it's good to see there are those who see the lunancy in this, such as Wallmott. I'm doing my best, in my little corner of the world, to change the way magicians are perceived regardless if I'm performing magic or not, because when/if it comes out that I'm a magician I want to represent our culture well.
I hope that every time we pull out a deck of cards or a prop that we remember that what the audience thinks of you as a person and your social IQ is far more important than if you can do a move perfectly.
Change in attitude doesn't come overnight, but if we continue to have some of the attitudes we have seen in this threads then long after we are all old and gone, magic will still be a sideshow.
Just a reminder to keep ALL posts as courteous, respectful, and professional as humanly possible. We welcome all discussion and debate - so long as it's intelligent, proactive, and civil.
Thanks guys!
Thanks guys!
Remember, 90% of success is not built on technical prowess, it's built on people skills. That's definitely something b_08 and I can agree on. If you're truly looking to succeed as a magician, I'd definitely recommend reading these 2 books. The Magic of Thinking Big and How to Win Friends and Influence People. These 2 books will challenge your mindset and hopefully get your mind right. If you find yourself socially ackward Skill With People is a great book.
Success doesn't just happen. For some like Blaine, and Copperfield and Criss, they had to work hard to get where they are. For others in the entertainment industry, like Britney Spears or Christina Auguillera or Justin Timberlake, they were groomed since childhood (Mickey Mouse Club). Maybe you didn't know that b_08. Britney Spears was raised to celebrity status because of management, you really can't deny that. Just like Miley Cirus (Hanna Montana) got her break because of her famous father Billy Ray Cirus. No matter how they got to where they were, when they got there they were able to stay the focus of the public eye for quite some time. The question is how and why?
Success doesn't just happen. For some like Blaine, and Copperfield and Criss, they had to work hard to get where they are. For others in the entertainment industry, like Britney Spears or Christina Auguillera or Justin Timberlake, they were groomed since childhood (Mickey Mouse Club). Maybe you didn't know that b_08. Britney Spears was raised to celebrity status because of management, you really can't deny that. Just like Miley Cirus (Hanna Montana) got her break because of her famous father Billy Ray Cirus. No matter how they got to where they were, when they got there they were able to stay the focus of the public eye for quite some time. The question is how and why?
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Just because you don't know something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
How do comics feel about Carlos Mencia and Dave Chappell?
Ever hear them talk about Sarah Silverman?
All arts, all professions slam it's own members.
Read some reviews written by people in the video game industry. Some very cutting stuff.
You speak like you are an expert in the world, B - at least when you are not hurling personal insults at others.
Can you please back up your statement that magic is the only "entertainment medium where the members slam it's own members"
Do you have any evidence to back that up. Or please, just address some of the famous rivals among comedians throughout history.
I appreciate that you have very strong opinions - I'm just wondering when/if you will ever back them up.
(Waiting for another ad hominem attack - wired, us news and world report, g4)
I've got a couple of points on this topic.
Getting somewhere in entertainment is (approximately) 50% talent and 50% networking, i.e. who you know. People who come from poor families and still make it will, on their way up, have made it their business to meet and ingratiate themselves with powerful people in their chosen profession.
On another issue, the reason why magicians are very poorly represented in the mainstream of entertainment, which pretty much means "on TV", is that a magician has to create a whole new format every time they want a show, so it's a much bigger risk for a production company and/or network. Actors, writers, sportspeople, comedians and so on have pre-existing, proven, TV show formats that they can slot right into. A one-magician magic show stands or falls on the appeal of the central character, the magician, who will, in most cases, be unknown to the general public before their first TV special. There is no room, as there is, for example, with actors, to work your way up the ranks, building up a following before you're given your first starring role. Probably a less risky and more network-friendly format would be a show featuring multiple magicians, hosted by someone already established and recognisable, maybe with a competitive element to it, so magicians were given "magic challenges" with an eventual winner emerging at the end of the show, possibly with a public phone vote. I think in this way, magicians would have the opportunity to showcase not only their magic skills, but their personas, likeability, and, therefore, potential to work well on their own show.
Getting somewhere in entertainment is (approximately) 50% talent and 50% networking, i.e. who you know. People who come from poor families and still make it will, on their way up, have made it their business to meet and ingratiate themselves with powerful people in their chosen profession.
On another issue, the reason why magicians are very poorly represented in the mainstream of entertainment, which pretty much means "on TV", is that a magician has to create a whole new format every time they want a show, so it's a much bigger risk for a production company and/or network. Actors, writers, sportspeople, comedians and so on have pre-existing, proven, TV show formats that they can slot right into. A one-magician magic show stands or falls on the appeal of the central character, the magician, who will, in most cases, be unknown to the general public before their first TV special. There is no room, as there is, for example, with actors, to work your way up the ranks, building up a following before you're given your first starring role. Probably a less risky and more network-friendly format would be a show featuring multiple magicians, hosted by someone already established and recognisable, maybe with a competitive element to it, so magicians were given "magic challenges" with an eventual winner emerging at the end of the show, possibly with a public phone vote. I think in this way, magicians would have the opportunity to showcase not only their magic skills, but their personas, likeability, and, therefore, potential to work well on their own show.
I can't resist getting involved here.
Criss Angel is the result of American media, every once in a while some young gun will get 'lucky' enough to be dragged along and absorbed by some huge media conglomorate or other. Because of how consumerism has evolved, nowadays people are always expecting the next big thing. Over here in England we've got Britains Got Talent and X-Factor, America has a tonne of similiar talent shows too, all aimed at finding 'the next big thing'. Media sucks up people and parades them about as though they are special or overly talented, restricting everything they do so that it fits with marketing, representation and so on.
I dislike Angel, my personal opinion. Nothing will change that, but what we have to remember is if he had made it to the top on his own, he could be a completely different celebrity/performer. I can tell you now that all of his traits have been distorted by his managers/sponsors so that he represents what they want him to. And just like many celebrities, it gets to their heads after a while and they really believe the persona that has been forced upon them. Angel is tainted by the media, and that is why i dislike him, because he has allowed himself to be controlled.
David Blaine is the opposite, and that is why i admire him and his magic. He is wholly independant from any media moguls, he is charitable, generous and incredibly talented at both magic and performing. He doesn't do his magic for money, he does it to inspire people and to attain the level of mystery that his idols (Robert Houdin, Harry Houdini and many others) first instilled in him at a young age. Did you know that Blaine turned down a $100 million dollar contract to exclusively perform magic in Vegas for two years?
Now i am not saying that Criss Angel is unskilled, he has a talent for entertainment [in some peoples eyes], and unfortunately has allowed himself to become part of consumerist culture. So yes, it is our fault that he is famous, and yes i do think he is a douche but we also made him what he is.
Criss Angel is the result of American media, every once in a while some young gun will get 'lucky' enough to be dragged along and absorbed by some huge media conglomorate or other. Because of how consumerism has evolved, nowadays people are always expecting the next big thing. Over here in England we've got Britains Got Talent and X-Factor, America has a tonne of similiar talent shows too, all aimed at finding 'the next big thing'. Media sucks up people and parades them about as though they are special or overly talented, restricting everything they do so that it fits with marketing, representation and so on.
I dislike Angel, my personal opinion. Nothing will change that, but what we have to remember is if he had made it to the top on his own, he could be a completely different celebrity/performer. I can tell you now that all of his traits have been distorted by his managers/sponsors so that he represents what they want him to. And just like many celebrities, it gets to their heads after a while and they really believe the persona that has been forced upon them. Angel is tainted by the media, and that is why i dislike him, because he has allowed himself to be controlled.
David Blaine is the opposite, and that is why i admire him and his magic. He is wholly independant from any media moguls, he is charitable, generous and incredibly talented at both magic and performing. He doesn't do his magic for money, he does it to inspire people and to attain the level of mystery that his idols (Robert Houdin, Harry Houdini and many others) first instilled in him at a young age. Did you know that Blaine turned down a $100 million dollar contract to exclusively perform magic in Vegas for two years?
Now i am not saying that Criss Angel is unskilled, he has a talent for entertainment [in some peoples eyes], and unfortunately has allowed himself to become part of consumerist culture. So yes, it is our fault that he is famous, and yes i do think he is a douche but we also made him what he is.
I dont think that this is a question about wheter you like him or not. The first season of mindfreak felt quit fresh and exciting and i know that he did create quit a large buzz with the lay audience and a lot of people were talking about him and getting fascinated with magic and clips from Mindfreak on youtube had a Huuuuge amount of views.
He got people to talk about him, it was not unusuall when someone were browsing around on the internet saying "HEY GUYS YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS!!" and showing you a youtube clip of some of Criss stunts.
And all magicians do is to talk about how bad they think it is. We should LEARN from him and no im NOT saying you should learn presentations or sleight or anything from him (Just saying becuase always when you talk about Criss someone says, LEARN FROM HIM?! Criss Cant do the PASS, Ammar can do 120 PASSES EVERYMINUTE, AMMAR FTW!!!!!)
No, im saying that we should learn from his succes and how he got to where he is.
He got people to talk about him, it was not unusuall when someone were browsing around on the internet saying "HEY GUYS YOU HAVE TO SEE THIS!!" and showing you a youtube clip of some of Criss stunts.
And all magicians do is to talk about how bad they think it is. We should LEARN from him and no im NOT saying you should learn presentations or sleight or anything from him (Just saying becuase always when you talk about Criss someone says, LEARN FROM HIM?! Criss Cant do the PASS, Ammar can do 120 PASSES EVERYMINUTE, AMMAR FTW!!!!!)
No, im saying that we should learn from his succes and how he got to where he is.
Wallmott, he only got to where he is because of the media, you stated this yourself by your reference to how many views his videos had and how much people talked about him.
I just hate it when people compare him to David Copperfield or David Blaine because those two earned their fame and fortunes right down to the last penny, and Criss Angel had A LOT of help from the media.
I just hate it when people compare him to David Copperfield or David Blaine because those two earned their fame and fortunes right down to the last penny, and Criss Angel had A LOT of help from the media.
Of course they are, you have to, thats how performers operate. Harry Houdini did it with posters and leaflets, David Blaine does it with the internet and Tv. But what i am getting at is where their morals lie, and their motivation.
David Blaine and David Copperfield both worked incredibly hard to get where they are, and although i am not denying that Criss Angel has too, there is no way you can say his efforts match the aforementioned two.
Im ending my input to this debate here, ive had my say. But before i do, let me say that I think Criss Angel is using magic, whereas i think David Blaine is lets Magic use him.
David Blaine and David Copperfield both worked incredibly hard to get where they are, and although i am not denying that Criss Angel has too, there is no way you can say his efforts match the aforementioned two.
Im ending my input to this debate here, ive had my say. But before i do, let me say that I think Criss Angel is using magic, whereas i think David Blaine is lets Magic use him.
You cant deny that Criss Angel... lets say... enjoys magic. Hes not purely using magic as source of income. He, like any of us, is an enthusiast and does what he does due to his passion. I just found that comment a tad disrespectful.
And as for your comment of how he doesnt work as hard to get his name out there... Houdini didn't have plasma screen tvs, he didn't have a camera crew, he had paper and ink and maybe photographs. Its not a matter of luck or morals within their methods, its just purely due to the fact that the media is right there. Whats the quickest way to get your name out there? Media. So why not?
And what's wrong with not working as hard. If you can get the same prestige and fame as someone else with less work, then go for it. Its not a matter of morals. Angel is not trying to scam Blaine or Copperfield out of their fame. He had a goal, he found the best method, he succeeded. He stayed by his passion, he put it out there, he expanded the world of magic, he is a great magician and performer. He may be showy and a tad over selling himself, but why not? He wants to make more money, everyone does.
If I walked up to you and let you choose between a jackpot lottery ticket or years of hard work, which would you choose?
Metal. Where do you think I got the term kvlt kiddie syndrome from?
According to Woody Allen, the 90% part would be showing up.
Actually I spoke with a woman once who has a tape of a teenage Criss Angel performing at her son's bah mitzvah. They loved his magic, but he was basically Criss even back then. Not exactly what you would call modest, certainly.
And? Why should I care?
Except that you are.
You're telling us how you think the world should work. But the world doesn't care. Be more realistic.
Lol, saying Criss is not working hard is pretty funny. How do you know? Do you and Criss hang out a lot? And when you do do you just sit at home playing video games and drinking beer?
I think he works and have worked just as hard as everyone else who has got as far as he did. Criss is not young, he is 42 years old and he got world wide famous in 2005 when Mind freak started, Criss was 38 then and have been doing what he does since he was a kid.
Filming a show like that need some insane amount of work as well as doing a show like Believe (No matter if it sucks or not)
I think he works and have worked just as hard as everyone else who has got as far as he did. Criss is not young, he is 42 years old and he got world wide famous in 2005 when Mind freak started, Criss was 38 then and have been doing what he does since he was a kid.
Filming a show like that need some insane amount of work as well as doing a show like Believe (No matter if it sucks or not)
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