Why aren't there any negative reviews on Ellusionist?

[Twozwozer]

wont let me edit

Personally, being amazingly anal about the slightest expose is purely retarded.

How does any forum on magic expect discussion if even the most known (ex- double lift) uses in magic, cannot be discussed
Eventually you get what E forums now are, the same topics over and over and over again

Do you have music on your computer, which you downloaded? OH NO, thats piracy!

Sure ive downloaded videos before, so has thousands of others, but unlike the rest of the community, i dont hide behind lies.
Besides, i am doing nothing illegal.

Um, yes your are. Piracy is againt the law. And if you listen to the Magic Week in Review, they have a whole section on Piracy this week.

Cheers, Tom

 

[Steerpike]

I broke no rules, my topic was deleted without any reason given, because apparently if i had used the "sreach button" (was their first reason)

What was your topic? Humor me.

once they realized they were inferior to me,

Saying this makes you sympathetic, how?

Personally, being amazingly anal about the slightest expose is purely retarded.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but you asked people to tell you what the gimmick to Box Monster was.

How does any forum on magic expect discussion if even the most known (ex- double lift) uses in magic, cannot be discussed

You're still stuck on thinking just about methods.

What, you think there's nothing else to talk about?

Eventually you get what E forums now are, the same topics over and over and over again

The activity at Theory 11 really isn't much different.

Do you have music on your computer, which you downloaded? OH NO, thats piracy!

I sample through torrents, then buy the albums (and T-shirts, buttons, concert tickets, etc) because if I like what I hear, I want the artist to have my money. They've earned it.

Besides, i am doing nothing illegal.

Technically it's considered theft because you don't seem to have any intention of ever buying a hard copy of what you pirate.

This also brings up the ethical issue in magic about performance rights.

Kid, you're in the wrong. It's never too late to change, but you need to lose this attitude that you can do whatever you want.

 

[Jupiter]

T11 and E are both great sites that I enjoy frequenting.

However, one thing Ellusionist have over Theory11 is that E wouldn't have let this piece of s h i t topic get past the first few posts...and reading through this, that's a good thing.

 

[Phenomena]

If you can find me one piece of legislation in the Canadian Law book about it being illegal to download anything- be it movies, music, books, only then i will admit being wrong.

As you see, its only illegal to distribute these items for profit.
Now, you seem to make it out like all the material i have is through downloads, this is incorrect. When i first got interested in magic, i knew nothing about online communitys, all i did was search through limewire for "learn magic"
Sure enough sme of the basic E videos poped up. This was 2 years ago, since then ive obtained maybe 3 more videos

Do you expect me to believe you that you search for torrents for music, movies and stuff, and once you find them , you buy them?
If thats the case, why search for torrents of something you know your looking for in the first place.

to two-
Piracy is NOT against the law (im canadian, not 100% sure about the U.S.) It only becomes against the law if you distribute your pirated material to others, for profit or not.
Thats what the podcast talked about, websites which baught dvd's, and spread it amongst its members, which IS against the law.

 

[Deleted member 2755]

If you can find me one piece of legislation in the Canadian Law book about it being illegal to download anything- be it movies, music, books, only then i will admit being wrong.

As you see, its only illegal to distribute these items for profit.
Now, you seem to make it out like all the material i have is through downloads, this is incorrect. When i first got interested in magic, i knew nothing about online communitys, all i did was search through limewire for "learn magic"
Sure enough sme of the basic E videos poped up. This was 2 years ago, since then ive obtained maybe 3 more videos

Do you expect me to believe you that you search for torrents for music, movies and stuff, and once you find them , you buy them?
If thats the case, why search for torrents of something you know your looking for in the first place.

to two-
Piracy is NOT against the law (im canadian, not 100% sure about the U.S.) It only becomes against the law if you distribute your pirated material to others, for profit or not.
Thats what the podcast talked about, websites which baught dvd's, and spread it amongst its members, which IS against the law.

Great... now we are going from an immature argument about Ellusionist to an argument over piracy. I'm staying clear of this thread after this post (unless someone challenges me....) because this topic is immature and the fact I'm wasting my time in it just gets me mad.

Piracy IS illegal. I don't care what you say... it IS illegal. However, let's just say hypothetically it was legal... IT'S UNETHICAL! Sure, anyone could pretty much download any magic video with EXTREME ease within a few hours. However, the people that invented these effects don't make any money because YOU downloaded them. How would you feel if you were a magician barely making it with today's economy so you release a DVD to make more cash.... but WAIT! You don't make money off of it because everyone just enters your DVD on some torrent site and downloads it. Now how do you feel? Well clearly not good.

Also... no.... no one just searches for a movie, downloads it, and then buys it. I don't know where you got that idea from.

I have no respect for you if you just download magic DVDs without even thinking about it.

Also, the fact that this topic is not helping anyone in magic at all yet it's the most viewed topic on the first page of this forum is pathetic. I'm staying clear of this thread now as it's not worth ANYBODY'S time.

-Doug

 

[..:Z:..]

Guys,

There is a difference between criticism, and constructive criticism.

There is not enough constructive criticism in the world to satisfy a reason for Ellusionst to keep a negative review in their forums.

If you write a review, constantly bagging and degrading a product, why on earth would they want that review on their forum?

Wait a second.... We're allowed to do this:

"ths prduct is jst so aesome and cool and like ez to undearstund and stiff....etc,"

But we can't do this?:

"I don't like this DvD because I feel it didn't really explain the blah blah blah well and etc,...."

If I bought a 50$ guaranteed-no-kink hose and if it kinks up on the first day, I'd be pretty pissed off. I'd be even more pissed off if a bunch of egotistical bastards are banning my review (on the guarantee-no-kink hose and kinked on the first day) and telling me that I'm unprofessional and blah blah blah and then end up banning me!

Now some other poor sucker out there is gonna buy that same hose and repeat the cycle.

But if you explain in detail what went wrong, and how it could be fixed ASWELL as the positives im sure they would not have an issue.

Look at some of the threads I advised earlier.

I mean I have bought or recieved some crappy effects before, but usually I could pull at least something positive from each of them.

Yah. You learned how to make money disappear!

I've taken some time to think and cool down. I just finished up an extremely hectic week that's left me feeling drained, frustrated, and more than a little irritable. With that in mind, I wish to apologize for the way I've expressed myself today. I do not take back standing up for what I believe is right, but I concede that I did it poorly.

Apology accepted.

Z, you constantly say the thread you pointed to was deleted. But if it were deleted, then none of us could see it.

I often confuse "deleted," and "locked." They both seem like the same thing to me and, in the end, they both accomplish pretty much the same objectives: Censorship. I think deletion is the better way of obtaining that goal, though.

It was merely locked due to a lack of constructive discussion.

But not the review, right? Okay, delete those nasty posts and resurrect the review then. I've seen you guys do it to the lamer-positive reviews, why won't you do it with this one? If the review wasn't the reason the thread was deleted, then just save the review. That's all.

As to your past issues with E, I watched the events unfold and you're not in a position to play the victim.

Let me guess, you guys were (my?/the) victims?

Let it go.

Let me guess, your gonna call me loser now because I won't "let it go?" Umm, this issue is very current. Not just about the wrongful deletion of eloquent and level-headed negative-scoring reviews, but just E-negativity in general.

Did you see what this moderator did?:

http://www.elusionist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80137

Man, if being oblivious to actually READING the original post and taking false and foolish assumptions are what it takes to become a moderator, then I think a whole lot of people in that forum qualify (Actually, I think those qualities are preliminary. only the ones that are able to write (type) well are the ones that take the positions of moderators)! Not to mention being able to deal out half-ass apologies. But seeing how he's a moderator, it's alright; it was just a mistake. That's all. It's all good.

But when I try doing that crap....

IMPLOSION

But instead, I have to be the bigger man and just accept his half-an-ass apology. Otherwise, they'll turn it around on me!


As an aside, continuing to take shots at me in the manner you're doing now is not helping your case.

You mean responding by insulting people with one-liners, taking assumptions about everything and responding like so, and using sarcastic (but powerful and witty) remarks that usually aren't relevant?

Irony (I like this strategy; one-liner).

Before you go patting yourself on the back, Phenomena, keep in mind that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to enter someone's house where they made the rules perfectly clear, (apparently, not clear enough seeing how people are always wonder WHY there posts were banned...) break said rules, and then get upset when they intervened If they would stop being so brit when they try to intervene, mayb people would be complaining less about that). Getting into a fight with your hosts doesn't help the situation either.

Could you tell me what your screenname on the messageboards was?

Just as well. I can't seem to find it.

Conveniently and coincadentally.

wont let me edit

Personally, being amazingly anal about the slightest expose is purely retarded.

Agreed; it's a real bummer when I can't ask for magician-public opinions on specific technique.

How does any forum on magic expect discussion if even the most known (ex- double lift) uses in magic, cannot be discussed
Eventually you get what E forums now are, the same topics over and over and over again

The same topics like exposure.... Lol.

 

[Steerpike]

If you can find me one piece of legislation in the Canadian Law book about it being illegal to download anything- be it movies, music, books, only then i will admit being wrong.

Give me 24 hours.

As you see, its only illegal to distribute these items for profit.

That's distribution. Not the actual acquisition.

Now, you seem to make it out like all the material i have is through downloads, this is incorrect. When i first got interested in magic, i knew nothing about online communitys, all i did was search through limewire for "learn magic"
Sure enough sme of the basic E videos poped up. This was 2 years ago, since then ive obtained maybe 3 more videos

Would you like me to copy and paste your exact words?

Do you expect me to believe you that you search for torrents for music, movies and stuff, and once you find them , you buy them?
If thats the case, why search for torrents of something you know your looking for in the first place.

Clearly, you didn't listen the first time, so I need to repeat myself.

I download to sample. As in preview. If I like what I hear, I delete the download and buy the real thing because I want to support the creator.

I cannot make it any clearer to you.

Piracy is NOT against the law (im canadian, not 100% sure about the U.S.)

You really need to pay closer attention to current events.

Let's assume by some legal miracle that downloading copyrighted material isn't illegal. There's still the ethical issue.

If you ever hope to go professional as a magician, the community as a whole will not support you unless you give the creator of an effect their dues and purchase the teaching material or recieve personal instruction in order to acquire the performance rights.

 

[Phenomena]

Piracy isnt Illegal. Moving on...the part about "who finds a torrent for a video, then decides to buy it" was in responce to steerpike, who said thats what he does
which is completely moronic.

as i have said, downloading magic dvd's is NO different than downloading music

unless youve been living under a rock for 15 years, or are allergic to music, then nearly everybody here has downloaded at leats 1 song in their life time, which according to some people is "illegal and unethical"

 

[Steerpike]

Conveniently and coincadentally.

I warned you already to drop the attitude. I'm trying to be civil and make up for my mistakes yesterday. If you want civil conversation, I'll give you that. But if you want to take advantage of my trying to play nice to continue taking shots at me, then get out. I'm not having that conversation with you.

Piracy isnt Illegal. Moving on...the part about "who finds a torrent for a video, then decides to buy it" was in responce to steerpike, who said thats what he does
which is completely moronic.

So it's moronic to want to support artists that I like?

Says a lot about your ethics.

 

[Phenomena]

most normal people, if searching for a sample of somebody they might like
would go to that artists website to view the samples
not a torrent site which is also well known for what?
PIRATED MATERIAL!!AHAJAJAJAJAballs


Your knowledge of copyrighted is misguided, i suggest reading up on it before responding again.
And good luck finding that law, as it doesnt exist

Phenomena

ps- love you

 

[Nor-Cal]

One has to understand that you are still the consumer, and they are the business. What exact negativity you are looking for is based on your presumptions about the site. Members on both ends are going to defend their site, but most of these members are noobs, after a few years you see the cycle and stay away from the crowds of people, what matters after that is your art and your knowledge.

E is where I got my start, its where I found the art that I love (XCM, CTG....etc.) and it not only gave me that, but many other factors played into it as well. E is at the forefront of the Magic Community right now, they do provide the highest quality products possible? Do they not. T11, which is new, is attempting to accomplish the same goals, with the help of a younger more experienced generation of card manipulators/magicians. A lot of people have to be thankful to E, both professional artists and members, but if you feel like there is something you do not agree with, post up--be a responsible member and let it be known. But I understand that one will be ridiculed for that. After 5 years, I've done A LOT, it's business, and it's none of my business. E caters to the new blood coming in, that's their specialty, it's supposed to be there to give you a start, after 4-5 years, go out and do your own thing.

As you progress through these communities, talking **** doesn't make anybody right, and it doesn't further the art. Bashing irrelevant topics on prices or advertising styles is not hitting the issue. However, you learn to stay loyal to the site where you take part at, at least if you are constantly participating.

For the most part, people that find help through the community, and people that participate in it are the ones that progress. You start out on the forums and post sensible topics that help the community, get a higher rank, you then post videos and put your money where your mouth is, you find respect and reputation in these communities, and depending where you want to take it from there--you can one day get your start in show business.

Take notes on the guys (or girls) that are doing it big right now, and learn from it. T11 is an awesome sight, I have seen no flaws yet.
I'll post a new video, hopefully in the next couple weeks
-peace....​

 

[Steerpike]

most normal people, if searching for a sample of somebody they might like
would go to that artists website to view the samples
not a torrent site which is also well known for what?
PIRATED MATERIAL!!AHAJAJAJAJAballs

If I like what I hear, the artist gets my money.

I dislike judging music strictly by singles, so I find alternate methods.

Doesn't change the fact that I make a conscious effort to support artists whose work I like. You're fighting a losing battle by trying to argue this with me. You continually ignore the bottom line that I support creators who deserve it by ultimately giving them my money.

Keep in mind this all started from a central issue I pointed out that you have dodged: you have openly asked people to expose effects to you because you wanted to know if you had correctly figured out a method and didn't want to have to pay for it if that was the case.

 

[ThrallMind]

Piracy isnt Illegal.

I'm sorry, saw that and it made me laugh.

Piracy

There's the definition. Piracy IS illegal. If it isn't than you aren't pirating...

-ThrallMind

 

[Flyspazz]

I may be wrong here but I do believe Canada's rules are different from our in the US. From what I understand from a friend if they can grab it from the air (satelite signal) or from the net they can have it. So it might not be illegal but I believe its ethically wrong.

 

[Aris.SA]

without reading the above posts,

because E delete them and ban you xD

 

[Flyspazz]

Aris.SA;
without reading the above posts,
because E delete them and ban you xD

Maybe you should read the above posts then...unless you have specifics Steers going to tear into you

 

[Angathorion]

I'm sorry, saw that and it made me laugh.

Piracy

There's the definition. Piracy IS illegal. If it isn't than you aren't pirating...

-ThrallMind

I have to agree with you. The word "unauthorized" already sounds the "ILLEGAL" alarm.

 

[Rabid]

Jesus Christ....

E this, E that...bloody E, stupid E, E banned me for simply saying that i didn't like their cards....etc....

What's the matter with you people?

No one yet has proved Steerpike wrong.
Saying that you don't have to is no defence, it's a cop out.

No one has ever gotten banned from E for simply stating an opinion. They've gotten banned for being idiots who break all the rules that are in place to keep things civil, prevent exposure and up-hold ethics...among other things. Period.

Come into someone's house and throw your weight around with skant regard for them or other people and you'll get thrown out yourself. Pretty simple math really.

Honestly, this stupid argument is never going to go away because people have allegiances they're not willing to step down from. One person hates what another loves, but unless you can back up your arguments, it's pointless to get into one.


And ..:Z:.. , no offence mate, but Brendon made a mistake and apologised for it, so i fail to see why that's such a problem. Everyone makes mistakes, but it shows maturity to accept them, make amends for them and then move on. Strange how in a climate of supposed dictatorship and censorship by over-bearing moderators, that the thread and his apology have remained for all to see....?

Weird huh?


As for the whole Piracy thing rearing it's ridiculous head again...anyone who thinks it's fine or cool needs to grow up.



Rabid

 

[SHANE BLACK]

T11 and E are both great sites that I enjoy frequenting.

However, one thing Ellusionist have over Theory11 is that E wouldn't have let this piece of s h i t topic get past the first few posts...and reading through this, that's a good thing.

Actually Jupiter this is a good thing. It seems every couple of weeks everyone needs to get some of this crap off their chest so we can move on to more important discussions like magic.

Shane

 

[Brad Henderson]

In the US many students are being sued for merely having used sites that allow access to music downloads. Most of these sites not only allow you to download, but also use your computer to "seed" files that you have downloaded. That places you in the chain of distribution.

The RIAA has sued many people who having done this (the standard suit is $3,000 regardless of the number of songs downloaded). They are able to "find" people, because they locate users tapped into University servers and then pressure the universities to reveal names and addresses. The Universities are folding to their pressure.

So, if you are using a site which allows others to take material off your computer, you are then distributing and would be, I suspect, subject to prosecution anywhere the Warsaw convention is upheld.

Also, remember, that when you "buy" a DVD, you are not buying the content. You are buying a physical disk and the license to use that content in a certain manner. That license does not extend to public broadcast or replication - which is what a seeded download would be.

The laws are complicated, and these were points explained to me. If someone here is a lawyer and has more authoritative information, I will happily concede to them. However, if you are obtaining licensed material without paying for it - which is what music and movies are - then you would most definitely be liable for civil action and possibly even criminal.

Brad Henderson (not a lawyer)