You are not an artist!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Steerpike, Jan 1, 2009.

  1. #1 Steerpike, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2009
    Miss me, sunshines?

    I'm guessing you clicked on this thread either because of my name attached to it, the title, or both. If you were here for the title, you might want to nip out for a quick drink before going any further. Alcohol isn't going to stop you from getting angry with me, but it will make your responses a lot funnier.

    Now then, chances are that if you are a magician or mentalist, you are not an artist. Chances are that if you are here, you are not an artist.

    Why, I hear you ask? Because you have nothing to say. Because you are pretending to be something that you are not.

    "There's nothing tragic about being fifty. Not unless you're trying to be twenty-five."
    -Joe Gillis, Sunset Boulevard

    There's no shame in being a hobbyist magician who does some cool tricks at a party for friends. Doing something for the sake of fun is perfectly fine. But that does not entitle you to call yourself an artist any more than someone drawing badly proportioned animu stick figures on DeviantArt.

    But then, that's the nature of the internet, isn't it? No quality control. Any half-wit with a standard case of teen angst can run out into the streets of cyber space and declare themselves a messiah. And since no one of any consequence has any interest in humoring their delusions, they band together into a community of whooping throwbacks to build up their own egos enough to foist their so-called talents on each other and later innocent by-standers.

    Amidst all this self-congratulatory revelry, the word artist becomes an honorific on par with Emperor of All That Is Rad. But once again, since there is no quality control on the internet, entire communities convince themselves that such a title need not be actually earned. The definition of artist is rendered as vague and inclusive as possible so that any schmuck can call himself one. The grand irony of course is that in making art so meaningless, calling yourself an artist becomes akin to calling yourself a hominid. It's nothing special anymore because you have gone out of your way to remove any and all barriers between artists and everyone else so that you can selfishly claim the title for yourself.

    How did I come to this conclusion? Because I used to be one of the self-important MySpace kids who acted in a manner I just described.

    So to restate my point, you are not an artist just because you do card tricks and flourishes. Your god-awful presentation of Stigmata does not make you dark and complex, it makes you a wanker who does another card trick. You don't bend people's realities, you talk them into submission (or stare them into submission if you're one of the types too busy ripping off David Blaine and Daniel Madison to bother having an original thought in your head).

    You are not an artist. You are a chimp wearing a diaper or a bear on a motorcycle, a spectacle that gets a reaction out of people from sheer absurdity.

    Now... prove me wrong.
     
  2. I dont want to prove you wrong. I agree.
     
  3. #3 JetEyeNight, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2009
    You. Are. Wrong.

    Your art does not have to be perfect to be considered art. Anybody who practices an art is an artist in that art. The number of tricks you do, does not determine whether you're an artist. I know you wish it were not that way, but it is.

    There is a difference however, between amateur and professional artists.

    Please close this thread, you're just trying to cause pointless arguments. Mods please close this thread. He's purposely trying to start a fight.
     
  4. i agree with jet, your going to start something you cant finish.
     
  5. Oh... my... god... Lock your doors and windows Steerpike. ;) In a way I agree with you yet I can't help but want to push you down a flight of stairs.

    Here's the thing, I feel that anyone who is truly devoted to magic whether they're in their room practicing magic or out performing. You mention the stick art, well what about the fantastic painters who paint brilliant paintings but do it in the privacy of their room. The artists that don't sell their art in a gallery. The photographers who create beautiful images but only for themselves. Or the filmmakers who are not making a living off of their art.

    You're being much to general. I've always thought magic is an art, and those who practice it with conviction and passion should be considered the artist.

    If you want to debate whether magic is an art or not debate that. Don't make those who have been taught that magic is an art and they are the artists feel like ****.

    Mitch
     
  6. Exactly...

    Mitch
     
  7. Hi! welcome back friend...

    since the last time you were banned, some very nice posters with nice Ideas and arguments have arised here, you could search for morgician or toyrobot if you are curios;), so I hope that you stick here a little more often than before.

    About your thread itself, it is going to hit hard, I mean, It did hitted me hard, why?
    Alot of us, hate guys and little kids who show up on youtube and those sites because we think they take magic as a mere hobby, while us, proudly present it as a form of art...Artist? to a lot of guys (myself included) means that if we take an art like magic, we practice the art , we mold the art to our necessities, that will make us an artist as well...your thread is going to shatter that thought on a lot of guys today steer(myself included)

    so why is going to hit hard? because that thought of being "artist" is one of the only things that separate us from the guys at youtube, (of course that and the respect we give to magic) and the thought of that, to be sincere, scares me, I love and respect the art so much that the mere thought of just being another guy with some card tricks up on his sleeve just feels akward....your post and thread is a kick in the nuts to our ego...

    So I think is like music then, yeah I can play in the piano hey jude from the beatles, I can perfect it and play it without flaws, I will still not be an artist, I did not created the piece of music and art im playing.... Im just interpretating...

    So ill take it that way, we are interpreters of magic...

    Thanks for the thread man, glad you are back.:)

    (sorry, I would like to express myself better than that but I still have problems with english;))
     
  8. If you work at your Art you are an ARTIST
     
  9. Oh come on! I prefer one of this threads any day than have to read threads like, "should I buy this?" "criss angel appeared here" etc etc....
     
  10. Holy crap. You're back.

    That's all I'm going to say for now, I'm coming up with an argument for later.

    Gustav
     
  11. I agree completely Steerpike, although maybe I wouldn't have put it in quite such an inflammatory way. In order for something to be art, it needs to express something above and beyond it's own beauty, or lack of it. The performance of a card flourish or trick is not necessarily art, however technically brilliant. Given the right presentation and performance, it can become art. A painting is not necessarily art regardless of the technical knowledge and ability required to apply the paint, neither is a series of expertly executed card sleights. There needs to be something more than that, or it's essentially juggling, a display of skill.
     
  12. Jet you are completely right!:D
     
  13. I never said anything about the number of tricks you know or do. Projection, much.

    Good.

    Once again, I never said anything about money. Money never entered into the equation in my argument.

    This says a lot more about the collective values of you guys than it does about mine.

    That's the idea.

    Which is not to say that magicians cannot be artists. Just that most of them are not. They're performers. And there's nothing wrong with that, provided you call yourself what you are.
     
  14. Ok, now people are really getting on my nerves. Juggling is not just a "display of skill". Haven't people ever heard of the "performing arts"? Juggling is a performing art, just as is XCM, or Magic. XCM is not just "a display of skill", it's a performing art.
     
  15. #15 Randomwrath, Jan 1, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 1, 2009
    I think you are making a rather big claim. I don't know the exact numbers, but you are talking to quite a large amount of people here. And I personally would say that some at least are artists. I have seen videos on this site that have made me feel mystified, bamboozled and perplexed. Moreso, I have seen videos that I would consider beautiful. Funnily enough, these aren't always the most complicated, latest, visual, commercial effects, these are the ones that have intent behind them, that create atmosphere, that awaken emotions. Whilst they are limited, I have seen some that I would definitely class as works of art. After all, art can be anything from a life size portrait to a bunch of twisted scraps of metal thrown together, as long as it has emotion and individuality. I'm not disagreeing with you as you do have a point, I'm just saying that there are some, not everyone, but some that have earned the title 'artist'.

    EDIT: Gawd, there were about ten posts between me reading the original message and me typing this. If I've repeated anything, apologies.

    EDIT AGAIN: I think the keyword that nobody mentioned *smug grin* was 'individuality'. What seperates us from the youtube posters? We don't copy Wayne word for word when performing. We make tricks our own, express them our way.Whilst this alone does not an artist make, it certainly contributes.
     
  16. Cop out. Bad answer. Next.

    I must confess, I'm pleasantly surprised. The first "Eureka!" moment in the thread, and it only took 10 replies. I was going to guess we'd be on page 4 before this hit.

    Which is why I'm giving them the chance to prove it.

    Then can either prove that they are artists, or they can just scream at me and demand like spoiled children that the thread be closed because the evil man on the internet told them they're not as special as their teachers are required to tell them they are.
     

  17. hahaha, lol::p
     
  18. Thing is, we shouldn't have to convince you. It's what WE believe, not about what you believe.

    I really couldn't care less if you think I'm not an artist. I know I am and that's all that matters.

    Mitch
     
  19. He said something you disagree with to make you think, my god.. burn him like the witch he is.


    C
     
  20. Juggling can be an art. Magic can be an art. Painting can be an art. However, they aren't automatically art. People use the term "arts" for these things because that's what they're intended to be. If someone throws a ball in the air and catches it, that's not art. If someone shows you their pass or their Jackson 5, that's not art. If someone puts some paint on some canvas, that's not art. All of these things can be components of an artistic creation, but they don't constitute art by themselves.
     

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