Where do I start...this is overall bad.
Labels do matter - as it does matter how you define yourself to a certain extent.
However, I would like to say - what kind of artists debate if they are artists? I have never seen painters or musicians sitting around discussing if they are artists.
I don't think if you read instructions from a book, or replicate what you see from a DVD - you should call yourself an artist. I think in our CRAFT, not art, we consider guys artists that progress our craft through their contributions and original or progressive thinking of effects and problem solving.
If you want to call yourself an artist because you "present" it in the same way, but with different words...go ahead, why would anyone care, but from a standpoint of how the magic community looks at it...you are not an artist, at least not in the sense that we consider guys like Devo from Superhandz, one of the creators from this site or Juan Tamariz.
You can call yourself what you would like, but just because you label yourself as something, doesn't make it true. I don't think a guy that plays cover tunes on his guitar at a local bar, considers himself an artist like Eric Clapton. I think this was the point Steerpike was trying to make...artists, in our art, progress various aspects of magic...they learn and grow themselves...they don't just buy as much as they can, work on it a bit, then proclaim they are artists for mastering work that is not their own. If this is acceptable, it shouldn't be...however, I am not sure it would bother me so much...as they guy that calls himself JESUS and lives on my street corner...I don't get upset that he calls himself that, as it doesn't effect me.
So, call yourself Alexander the Great or King Henry...or an artist - why should we have a 25 page discussion on it? The truth of the matter is - VERY few of you are "artists" in the conventional sense - not in our craft...as art should offer something particular when it comes to freedom of interpretation....not sure that any effect offered on this site...or any other...allows for that. What it does allow is for you to express yourself...and hopefully get past the "I am about to fool you" versus "I don't want to be fooled" dicotomy that exists when you approach people to show them magic. If you can express something when you perform, more than "I fooled you", then perhaps that is your art...if you create something new...perhaps then...but I wonder if the guys we consider artists, call themselves that?
Why is this term so desired? I would want to be more than an artist - as artists don't usually perform in the manner that we do, interacting with people. Art is usually observed, and my magic allows me to connect and have people involved...so we can argue all day if we are artists or not...but I haven't really seen one person say this.
I feel that I am an artist because I do THIS ________________
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As I go, I want to state one more thing.
I am VERY surprised that this topic is reopened. I am disappointed by the actions taken and the amount of involvement by T11 on this one. Initially, I understood the reasons, but the aftermath has caused more hardship than letting it go.
Also - holo - he just called everyone an idiot - very disrespectful to the posters - will he be banned? If not - is the message, be rude to each other, just not to the all mighty T11? After all, Steerpike seemed to be defending his position to many, and few were on his side...is anyone surprised he got his back up? Then he gets contacted by mods, and is insulted that he is being attacked for his comments...and HE is being told to be more respectful? Then fires back disrespectfully to the staff? Then all hits the fan.
One time, I saw a dog that was so used to being biten, it bit a child...the dog wasn't a bad dog, but it still got put down. Too bad that when something is so used to having to defend the unpopular position, it changes them.
A message to the posters of T11 - if you want this forum to be better - start thinking about who you are challenging with your opinions. We have lost many EXPERIENCED and EDUCATED magicians from this thread, because many of you are so opinionated, you take no time to think about the back ground and experience of the person giving advice.
It took me 6 months to convince an award winning coin magician to come on this forum...he finally did, and after 2 weeks of trying to help young magicians (as our average age is about 16-18), he was so insulted by the responses of the users of this thread. He left. Awesome - a virtual OPEN door to SO many coin things...the man does it all, and well - and T11 users turned him off.
So...as much as Steerpike should be accountable for how he treated the staff...some of that burden falls on the 25 pages of topic that has NO relevance outside this circle. We lost an educated, yet abrasive, member.
This thread should be closed out of respect....but not before banning holo for his disrespect to others. Please stay consistent T11.
Thanks.