Exposing methods on the internet

[industrialchild]

Hello fellow Theory 11 forum members. I would very much like to know your opinions on the subject of exposing magical secrets over the internet via Youtube and other such sites. All I know is about a month ago I invested around 30 dollars for an effect called Pressure and it was a very good investment. I thought it was genius and I have had great reactions with it. So a few minutes ago I was on Youtube killing some time watching videos, so I decide to watch the trailer for Pressure. I type in Pressure into the search engine and lo and behold about three trailers and about FIVE or SIX videos exposing the trick. I felt I had to type this up because this really angers me. Pressure is not by a long shot the first trick to suffer this fate but for the love of god, it just came out a month ago! I would very much like to hear the opinions of the fellow Theory 11 forum members.

I hope someday this ugly little trend stops, but until then let's talk about it...

David

 

[aJohnson]

I hope it stops, but the sad truth is it wont.

There is also a topic on cerva trova which has some interesting opinions you might want to see, http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?p=225622#post225622

 

[Nikki]

Theres been a ton of threads on magic exposure over the internet. sadly, i don't think its gonna stop. theres a lot of people out there who don't have respect for it.

 

[cedwards90]

it wont stop, so be better
always stay a few steps ahead of it

 

[Faust]

Well I totally agree. I'm really not sure why people do it. I have never felt compelled to reveal a trick on the internet. Deep inside I think it is like the heckler and his need to expose the trick because it will put him on the same level of the performer. Then again I know some people really do it out of love for the beginner who wants to get started but does not have the means.

On the one hand it is ruining magic and if the trend continues who knows where we will be. On the other, had my grandfather never revealed how he was reading my mind using an old pack of Bee cards I might have never chosen to pursue magic and mentalism more.

In closing I think that between close friends who are already involved in magic it is ok to let a few easy card tricks slide. The more advanced ones are best kept to yourself. I think if more magicians saw the killer reactions they could get with more practice, they would not only never reveal again, but would also join us against exposure.

 

[James Smith]

http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?t=18212

That's all I have to say.

 

[penguincdude]

I'm pretty sure you can report it. That's what you can do with ellusionist tricks at least because they threatened to sue and if that ever happens youtube just plays it easy and takes the video down.

 

[descartes]

You have mentioned the exposure videos, but even assuming you can convince youtube to take these down (not an easy thing to do), there are still many videos that unintentionally expose. These are performance videos where the technique is not good enough to hide the method.

I'm feel that unintentional exposure through bad performances does the same amount of damage as intentional exposure, but gets much less attention. Ultimately, exposure is a fact of life for magicians and there is no easy solution to it.

 

[James Smith]

You have mentioned the exposure videos, but even assuming you can convince youtube to take these down (not an easy thing to do), there are still many videos that unintentionally expose. These are performance videos where the technique is not good enough to hide the method.

I'm feel that unintentional exposure through bad performances does the same amount of damage as intentional exposure, but gets much less attention. Ultimately, exposure is a fact of life for magicians and there is no easy solution to it.

That's true. One time I performed Factory Sealed fr some kid at school. He told me that that night he would go onlne to figure out how to do it. The next day he told me how I did the while thing. He didn't learn it from a tutorial, but from a bad performance.

 

[William Draven]

Hello fellow Theory 11 forum members. I would very much like to know your opinions on the subject of exposing.... I hope someday this ugly little trend stops, but until then let's talk about it...

David

If you would like to know what everyone's opinion on this subject is try using the search option and type in "youtube". You're going to find at the least 20 other threads about the subject. I'd encourage you to use the search option in the future.

For the sake of humor, I'll even predict with acuracy how the next three pages would turn out.

You are going to get a handfull of people that say it doesn't damage the art at all. You're going to get the rest of the sheep in the herd that will be willing to hang and burn at the stake the first person they can find exposing magic, and you're going to find about another ten people that will derail the thread with abstract opinions and links to things that will have nothing to do with the subject.

Finally you'll get someone who's seen and participated in one to many of these threads complain about it being in existance in the first place, report the thread to the mods and move on with life.

Best to you.

 

[Twozwozer]

If you can make everone on this planet believe in [insert subject that people fight over all the time; Aliens, Religon, Global Warming etc.] then you will be able to stop exposure videos, because that will mean you will have control over people's free will and opinons.

Basicly your not going to stop the exposure, because some people believe there shouldn't be secrets in this world, and some people do.

Cheers, Tom

 

[Twozwozer]

I'm pretty sure you can report it. That's what you can do with ellusionist tricks at least because they threatened to sue and if that ever happens youtube just plays it easy and takes the video down.

Good luck threatening to sue, you can't easily copyright a Magic effect. If you do want to copy right an idea you have to go through Intellectual Property thing and then you have to fully explain your idea and how it works and put this idea out into the public eye.

It's a double edge sword.

(Correct me if I'm wrong)

Cheers, Tom

Woo 600th post....

 

[StevenLevitt]

It will never stop, however, will magicians always be ahead of the game? Yes they will if they are good.

This is what pushes our magic further.

 

[SHANE BLACK]

Generally its those that can't actually perform magic that are exposing it. Why? Maybe they find it hard to get their fingers to do a Charlier or maybe they can only do a Clipshift with 32 cards instead a full regulation size deck. Most of them make me laugh for the most part at their ill attempts to be a true entertainer and I respect nada at that point. Honestly it will never stop so in the meantime do your own thing, be better, and keep on laughing.

 

[shortsleeves]

If you can make everone on this planet believe in [insert subject that people fight over all the time; Aliens, Religon, Global Warming etc.] then you will be able to stop exposure videos, because that will mean you will have control over people's free will and opinons.

Basicly your not going to stop the exposure, because some people believe there shouldn't be secrets in this world, and some people do.

Brilliantly stated.

I choose to accept internet exposure and welcome it as a necessary evil to challenge my own abilities and keep me on top of my game. Besides, I'd be lying if I said I'd never learned a method by nefarious means. I'm a magician after all.

How many spectators are out there scouring the internet for the exposed method behind McDonald's Aces or searching the string "Hoffzinser revealed"? Not many. In fact, it's potential magicians who are out there scouring the internet for such things. Spectators are spectators for a reason: because they're not magicians. If anything, I'd say it's sites like this one and Ellusionist whcih make magic MORE accessible to MORE people whcih are to blame, if blame must be carried. <I realize how daring this statement is. I love this site and learned a lot from Ellusionist starting out and by no means intend any disrespect. I'm just making a point of sorts.>

But, again, I don't think it's as big a problem as we may think. The world is a big place with LOTS of people in it. I'm confident that there will consistently be far more OUT of the know than IN the know. And like I said, for every method that's exposed unfairly, there's that much more incentive to push the envelope and develop alternative methods and alternate handlings. I'm grateful for the challenge personally.

The day I perform an effect for an audience and more than one spectator says "Hey, that's just Lennert Green's snap deal applied to a typical Open Travelers routine." THEN I will start to worry.

(^_^)

 

[William Draven]

All else fails... look at it this way: "Free research!"

 

[dstar]

I think it's the people with their hands out, wanting to make your money their money, that are the worst by far. I rant about it here and there in my blog. Sure to tick a few off

http://cardman.2kool4u.net/

 

[William Draven]

...so it's wrong for someone to try and make a living?

 

[dstar]

I suppose that was directed at me. Selling magic videos is not a way to make a living. Making a living from magic comes from performing, or if you really have the polish publishing a book. I find it odd how people somehow tend to think magic is "a different type of thing" when it comes to marketing. If you own a REAL magic shop I salute you beyond words. All the rest is really the downfall of the true magic shop. Instead of me ranting about it, why not Email Denny. I think you can expect his opinion on factory magic shops in cyberspace. Honestly though I ponder why in the world why magicians don't just "understand" without my "opinion", on why downloads is in poor form in magic. On the other hand by all means, I have nothing against starting a very secluded and private area amongst your magician friends online where you can share anything. Oddly this is "taboo" and there is no money exchange for newer day magicians being brainwashed.

In a nutshell, if you do magic that you feel it is being exposed, you might want to ponder where your getting your magic from, and who is mostly doing it in the first place. On the other hand I wouldn't even much worry about it. Or, what is wrong with buying Tarbell and a handful of books and being content....how is that "staying new and trendy" working for you? How are people getting your magical money? Are we sure it's new and trendy? If you got exposed by a laymen, was the effect in essence made for laymen to buy in the first place? There are a lot of questions we should all ask ourselves on what exposure REALLY is all about in the modern age.

I really could go on for days about the subject. That's why I got a blog to let it flow. I know many will disagree, but I think the ones that think I'm wrong have been zombified by factories themselves.

 

[William Draven]

I suppose that was directed at me.

Seeing how I posted directly after yours... yes. That would be a good assumption.

Selling magic videos is not a way to make a living. Making a living from magic comes from performing, or if you really have the polish publishing a book.

That's really odd seeing how Wayne Houchin, Justin Miller, Danial Garcia and several others seem to be doing quite well for themselves in the video market.

I find it odd how people somehow tend to think magic is "a different type of thing" when it comes to marketing.

Unless you've got a marketing degree or the equivelant in real world experience, I'd be careful about making a statement like that in an area that could potentially have people in it who understand marketing far better than you do. Magic is a product that can be marketed as educational/instructional or as entertainment. It serves several vertical markets, and is quite flexible if you know how to spin it right.

why not Email Denny.

email who? Who is Denny, and why should I care what his opinion is?

on why downloads is in poor form in magic.

Who'se talking about downloads? I'm talking about instructional videos. Don't change the subject without giving additonal support to your opinion.

In a nutshell, if you do magic that you feel it is being exposed, you might want to ponder where your getting your magic from, and who is mostly doing it in the first place. On the other hand I wouldn't even much worry about it.

How the hell did we go from discussing why selling magic videos is a valid form of income to internet exposure? You're all over the place with your train of thought.

I really could go on for days about the subject.

Please don't, you don't really seem to have a clear grip on what the "subject" is in the first place.