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How is magic an art and how can you convey that to your audience?

Jul 13, 2009
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If what you do is an art people will recognize it no matter what. You do not have to tell people what art is because they know what art is. Real arts speaks for itself.

And How

The argument of the audience doesn't care isn't a great one to run with if you don't actually take the time and treat your effects as art, then your performance will be weaker and you end up cheating the audience of your true potential; Its all about attitude.

My response is in blue, what I am addressing is in red

I honestly don't think audiences care if it's an art or not. They want to be entertained, not educated.[/COLOR] Perhaps a few spectators can appreciate it on a different level, but most don't. There's really very little we can do about this and honestly I don't think we need to. Why do you really care if your audience think your an artist? You probably just like the term and the idea of being an artist and get an ego boost from it.

Who said anything about educating your audience, right now I am helping to educate the magicians or aspiring magicians to be. Nevil Maskelyn, Robert Houdin, David Devant each called themselves a conjurer and artist of magic. Do you think they needed an ego boost? You can convey to the audience that what you are performing is an art without giving them a rundown. Your job is to present your finished piece of artwork period.



If a magician was performing to me and trying to tell me the history of the effects, the creators and why it's more than entertainment and I should appreciate it as an artform I wouldn't be happy, i'd be irritated, bored and would just want to see a trick. I'd think he needs to get over himself as do most people writing these ridiculous, pretentious essays which have no practical applications.

I addressed the above in my last paragraph, but to add to it. You are the student it is your job to study everything and learn it. Everything from the smallest little subtle movement, to timing of movement. In order to be a true great performer one must study the art of magic. This is partially the reason why I say to focus on your school work before you get serious with magic.

I'd bet that most people who write these really long posts on magic as an artform apply almost none of it to their performances, they just want to look clever on the forums. When you're out doing an ACR and do a double lift are you really thinking about the illusion you're creating and how it's perceived in the minds of the audience? Probably not... There's certainly a few magicians around who will take all this into account, but most of the people on T11 don't.

Lucky thing I am not a person, also foxes are clever I am a wolf While you are performing an ACR, you shouldn't have to think about the theory behind the effect while performing it, because you would have mastered the complete subtleties of the effect that everything just happens naturally. Now I hope you are reading everything I am stating because you missed my message in the beginning.

You should work on practicing your routines until their perfect then go out and entertain people with them and give them a unique experience that they'll hopefully remember for a long time. Work out what your audiences like and what they don't and refine your act based on it. Do what they like not what gives you an ego trip and I think you'll be a great magician. If you're so good at what you do and they see it as an art, that's great. If not, you can still give them a great experience.


Thank you for reiterating what I have already stated. I can't help wondering why you posted all the other lengthy post when all you needed to say was the first two sentences of the last paragraph. I dislike with a passion the word EGO paired with TRIP, egos can't take trips they just get bigger with arrogance. I do not know why you have this preconceived notion that the steps I take is for ego reasons. Truly if you take the time and put the effort into the effect you will end up with not a great performance or experience, you will come out with a work of art that everyone may be proud of.

The wandering internet wolf,

SilverFang
 
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And How

The argument of the audience doesn't care isn't a great one to run with if you don't actually take the time and treat your effects as art, then your performance will be weaker and you end up cheating the audience of your true potential; Its all about attitude.

What are you talking about?
Iwas just saying real art does speak for itsself. Sometimes an actor does a horrible job acting, but what he is doing is still an art. A drawing might be poorly drawn, but that is still art. A magician performance might be weak but what he doing is still an art.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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What are you talking about?
Iwas just saying real art does speak for itsself. Sometimes an actor does a horrible job acting, but what he is doing is still an art. A drawing might be poorly drawn, but that is still art. A magician performance might be weak but what he doing is still an art.

I was agreeing with you, check my signature. Now if the magicians performance is weak do you think that the audience will be so quick to call it art? (Rhetoric)
 
I was agreeing with you, check my signature. Now if the magicians performance is weak do you think that the audience will be so quick to call it art? (Rhetoric)

Like I said before it does not matter if the performance is horrible art is art whether it is viewd ugly or not. If an actor magician, artists does a a horrible job it does not matter because it is still an art.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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Wait wait wait I withdraw my and how comment, so are you suggesting that if I make a steaming pile of poo appear from my bum, then that the audience will be ignorant enough to call that art, I presented it like a magic trick is it still art?

Also great post Steer.
 
Aug 1, 2009
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Well....what ever type of performance you do you must always make it atonish others at the deepest level you can. Every ones performance style and perspectives are different and we must respect that and continue to improve each other without changing each other's uniqueness.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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Like I said before it does not matter if the performance is horrible art is art whether it is viewd ugly or not. If an actor magician, artists does a a horrible job it does not matter because it is still an art.

If I am on the toilet onstage pooing, while my mother and sister do the can can naked. My uncle swinging in spraying urine everywhere, while on a trapeze soaking everything and everyone below him in his putrid liquid! While I drop the load with a kerplunk, making a coin vanish at the same time. My sister and mother now covered in liquid come up and do a tap dance. My uncle now off the trampoline because I can't spell trapeze runs around yelling "I AM CRISS ANGEL, LET ME MINDFREAK YOU."At the conclusion of my mother and sister naked tap dance I present a pile of poo on a silver platter and yell Tada!!! Is that art, no its called the aristocrats.
:D hey 111 post that is my age.
 
If I am on the toilet onstage pooing, while my mother and sister do the can can naked. My uncle swinging in spraying urine everywhere, while on a trapeze soaking everything and everyone below him in his putrid liquid! While I drop the load with a kerplunk, making a coin vanish at the same time. My sister and mother now covered in liquid come up and do a tap dance. My uncle now off the trampoline because I can't spell trapeze runs around yelling "I AM CRISS ANGEL, LET ME MINDFREAK YOU."At the conclusion of my mother and sister naked tap dance I present a pile of poo on a silver platter and yell Tada!!! Is that art, no its called the aristocrats.
:D hey 111 post that is my age.

:eek: That would be worster than 2 girls 1 cup. LOL:p Naw but I feel you though There is a certain limit I was just joking when I said it depends on how you present it.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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relax........it's just his opinion.

Oh sorry you didn't catch that, it was a joke. I have a sense of humor not a very good one but it comes out every now and then. Its all good, like I have stated before its the diversity of magic opinions that makes magic so entertaining amongst magicians.
 
Aug 10, 2008
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In a rock concert
Like I said before it does not matter if the performance is horrible art is art whether it is viewd ugly or not. If an actor magician, artists does a a horrible job it does not matter because it is still an art.

In other words you are like " Art is art because it is" Sorry, but you did not explained your point further and saying that something is art, doesnt makes it art, I suggest you understand the concept of "art" a little more, or if you do, I would love to see you explaining your point because it is complete keokesilverfang popo right now, thank you. BTW I refer you to Steerpike thread quoted below me.


________________

I think the best thing that you can do,is to stop thinking your acting."

100% agreed, regarding acting I would like to share with you guys a piece of "The Paper Engine"

"...An old tenet of the actor, with regard to how one uses energy on stage, is that the human mind is only capable of one thought at a time. While the mind may constantly jump back and forth between thoughts, it cannot think two thoughts at once.

This is the reason an actor learns his lines to the point where they become habitual. He hears his cue and out comes the line. Any time spent thinking about a line,even if only for a moment, is time during wich he is not acting.Any secret technique employed by the magician is equvalent"


Aaron Fisher

this does not only aplyes to sleights, it aplyes to the general performance that we have.
 
Feb 16, 2009
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South Bend, IN
I haven't read all the posts here, but before arguing about whether magic is art or not, let us try to be clear about what constitutes art.

In my opinion, art is fundamentally about the artist expressing himself in some way. It is a means whereby the artist interprets something in a unique way and shares his interpretation through an appropriate medium. This interpretation of the artist should also evoke a certain emotional response from the viewer or the audience.

If your work does not contain some level of self expression and does not invoke an emotional or aesthetic response from the audience, it is highly unlikely to be art. If your magic does any of the above things, you have a basis for claiming to be an artist.

One more thing I should add is that sometimes people make a big deal out of decent trick because they strive in vain to make it artistic. This is a good thing to work towards in general, but sometimes, a trick is just a trick. It does not point to anything beyond itself and that is ok. You don't have to be artistic in every thing you do.
 
Jul 13, 2009
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I haven't read all the posts here, but before arguing about whether magic is art or not, let us try to be clear about what constitutes art.

Sorry if I am hijacking this thread but I got a lot to say, I do believe your post is an okay summary of what has already been stated.

Also it isn't arguing its called crossfire its a key to any good debate. Someone asked a question two people gave differing opinion then there was crossfire then a closing statement and some more crossfire.
 
Another magic is art thread? Really, guys?

In much the same way a painter strokes magnificent paintings, in much the same way a sculptor chisels awe-inspiring statues, a magician creates memorable moments. A magician creates these moments for people to reflect on later and appreciate. There is art in that. There is art in magic that people haven't discovered yet. In my opinion, it's not the meager tricks that is art. It's the whole experience of seeing the impossible happen; it's the challenge of logic and common sense; it's the memory of that experience, and it's the feeling of wonder specific to each individual spectator. That is the art in magic.

What we perform isn't art. A well-trained monkey can do card tricks. It's the experience you're offering; it's the unique interaction with a person that you can provide. It's the dance you have with an audience to make them remember who you are as a person and performer. And if you do the job well, as THE BLACK MAGI said, the art will speak for itself.

RS

 
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