I don't quite understand you now. And this thread is going to waste. I perform to entertain however when doing paid gigs if you are not remembered then it is like you never happened. Those are two very different topics.
If you aren't remembered, you are just empty space
- Thread starter MalibuARMY
- Start date
I don't quite understand you now. And this thread is going to waste. I perform to entertain however when doing paid gigs if you are not remembered then it is like you never happened. Those are two very different topics.
This topic is about your blog post. In your blog post you said:
then in this thread you said:
This implies that you don't mind wasting a whole 15 minutes or half an hour, despite the fact that in your blog, you adamantly state that the performance not being memorable equates to being bad.
That's what's confusing.
then in this thread you said:
This implies that you don't mind wasting a whole 15 minutes or half an hour, despite the fact that in your blog, you adamantly state that the performance not being memorable equates to being bad.
That's what's confusing.
Well I suppose it's time for me to throw my hat into the ring, and post my comment on this thread. I think think the biggest argument here in this thread is due to a perception problem. To which point of view are we looking at the subject matter from? The view point of the professional worker who must constantly sell, and resell him/her self to clients to sustain a suitable way of living, or the casual enthusiast who only wants to amaze his/her friends and family or occasionally be the life of the party?
What Anna is suggesting, though stated in a very authoritative and almost combative way, is from my opinion aimed at the professional worker. To that extent yes, she's correct. If you want to build on your profession, and make sure you keep business in your pipeline then you had better be memorable. Anything other than that is just a failed opportunity. Business isn't polite, it's not nice, and seldom is it fair. It's sales. Your product is yourself, and believe you me, it is a dog eat dog world out there.
However, if you're just a kid who's hobby it happens to be magic, and you're more interested in buying the next cool custom deck, or learning the Buck twins newest knuckle busting move then 90% of the intentions behind Anna's post is well beyond you. You don't need to care about being remembered... you just need to perform, and do so well. You're income or lively-hood won't be impacted severely if they don't remember your name the next day.
What Anna is suggesting, though stated in a very authoritative and almost combative way, is from my opinion aimed at the professional worker. To that extent yes, she's correct. If you want to build on your profession, and make sure you keep business in your pipeline then you had better be memorable. Anything other than that is just a failed opportunity. Business isn't polite, it's not nice, and seldom is it fair. It's sales. Your product is yourself, and believe you me, it is a dog eat dog world out there.
However, if you're just a kid who's hobby it happens to be magic, and you're more interested in buying the next cool custom deck, or learning the Buck twins newest knuckle busting move then 90% of the intentions behind Anna's post is well beyond you. You don't need to care about being remembered... you just need to perform, and do so well. You're income or lively-hood won't be impacted severely if they don't remember your name the next day.
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Thank you so much for posting on this thread. I am not going to post anymore on this one. My new motto: Mr. Draven said it best.
–Anna Harris
Also, think of your top 10 favorite films of all time. I bet there's at least one film that you absolutely loved that you forgot about, until something reminds you of it. Get what I'm saying?
Inception
LA Confidential
The Three Amigos
I Love You Man
The Incredibles
Exit Through The Gift Shop
Yeah, I got stumped after this, and I know there are some I'm forgetting. WAIT - Barney's Christmas Special. Nevermind.
Why assume those are the only two views we have to work with? People do magic for a much broader range of reasons than that. I feel like you are over simplifying here.
I also have beef with your language here: However, if you're just a kid who's hobby it happens to be magic, and you're more interested in buying the next cool custom deck, or learning the Buck twins newest knuckle busting move then 90% of the intentions behind Anna's post is well beyond you.
To me this came off as condescending to the casual performer. Be mindful of the word 'just' because it can often be perceived as 'less than'. Saying someone is 'just a kid' is belittling. Use of the phrase 'well beyond you' seems to imply that this view point is of some kind of higher understanding, over their head etc. It's not 'beyond' them, it's just not as important.
I feel like magic is personal and I have no right to say one way is better than another so I try to treat all ways of magic with due respect. I'd like to think you do as well so that's why I'm just trying to make you aware of your use of language as opposed to arguing why everyone deserves respect for their take on magic blah blah blah etc. I don't believe you are the type of person who feels he is a better person or magician than others simply for asking to be paid to do so while others are not. If you are well, agree to disagree I suppose.
Anyway, that's it as far as addressing Mr. Draven.
General thoughts: In the specific context of the magician who performs to earn a living, being remembered has it's value. I think in that context there really isn't much to discuss, pretty much everyone agrees on that point. My issue with the article in question and the title of this thread is that distinction was not initially made. It's treated as this one-size-fits-all statement when in reality it doesn't fit all.
Not really... you can only perform magic for one of two reasons. 1) For profit or 2) For pleasure. Sure you can create a multitude of sub categories, but they will all fall under one of those two reasons.
Please allow me to be clear on something... I'm not trying to be condescending to the casual performer, I am simply making it quite clear that Anna's point, and by virtue of that my own, is beyond their needs. If you only can afford a $15,000 dollar car, then you wouldn't go talk to a Mercedes salesman. Same applies. Anna's logic is from, and aimed at the mindset of the dedicated worker. If you are a casual performer you're needs won't match up with what Anna's getting at. That doesn't mean its wrong that your casual, nor does it mean your wrong in your pursuits for your magic. It just means that she's talking about football, and you're playing tennis.
You are absolutely correct, I don't look down upon anyone for their choices in their craft. If you are casual, of if you are professional we are all brothers, and sisters in the craft. I may have used some rather strong vocabulary, and for that I'm sorry if I've rubbed you wrong with that. I'll be more mindful of my dramatics in the future, and please don't hesitate to call me out on something you don't agree with either... I make mistakes.
"If You Aren’t Remembered After Your Show, You Don’t Deserve To Have One" implies much more different things to what you're saying, Will.
This is where the confusion started. If it was made clear originally that the concept was applicable only for professional magicians who rely on the success of their performance and hence the impression left on potential clients, rather than putting up some phrase that is supposed to sound profound when it really is completely misleading with no clarification behind it, then it would have been much clearer.
Anna, "if you aren't putting your point across correctly in blog posts, and then letting other, more well spoken seniors of the community defend you when you are challenged, then you don't deserve to have a blog."
This is where the confusion started. If it was made clear originally that the concept was applicable only for professional magicians who rely on the success of their performance and hence the impression left on potential clients, rather than putting up some phrase that is supposed to sound profound when it really is completely misleading with no clarification behind it, then it would have been much clearer.
Anna, "if you aren't putting your point across correctly in blog posts, and then letting other, more well spoken seniors of the community defend you when you are challenged, then you don't deserve to have a blog."
I agree with that although I'd like to add I feel that as far as that pleasure category goes there is a wide range. Different styles or philosophies would have different needs. For example: if you simply love to perform, don't care who, don't care how, then being memorable isn't necessary at all. Whereas if you were performing with goals like to meet new people, make friends, develop people skills or pick up girls (it happens) then striving to be memorable would be much more relevant to your goals. Hell, maybe there are performers who just want to be remembered.
So if the point of this thread is the merits of being remembered then to me the question of "What's your goal?" is better suited than "Business or pleasure?". Unless it's followed up with "If business, absolutely. No question. If pleasure, what's your goal?". Although again I think I'd have to concede that in no area is it more important than to the magician who performs to put food on the table.
At any rate, thank you for taking the time to clear the rest of that up for me. See, I knew you were a good dude
Hello..
While the title of the post is a little bit misleading...when you actually read it...it says this
"And if someone is working at the World Famous Magic Castle and people aren’t talking about their show after, they frankly don’t deserve to be there"
...and that my friend sums up the point...of course if you work in a place like the magic castle..you are supposed to be the best of the best...although...I think this should have been clarified...since I agree with this...and that`s mostly the point of the post..
At least it's been clarified in this thread.
When writing about such a delicate topic, it should be written clearly, lest misunderstandings arise and people misinterpret it.
The last paragraph implies different context to the second last paragraph. The use of personal pronouns is very misleading without clarification.
When writing about such a delicate topic, it should be written clearly, lest misunderstandings arise and people misinterpret it.
The last paragraph implies different context to the second last paragraph. The use of personal pronouns is very misleading without clarification.
I know I said I wouldn't really post on this one again but I feel you are right and also that this thread has run its course. It is a delicate topic…even too delicate for me but it is good to hear different sides instead of just one.
I have put another post on my tumblr and this one isn't as crazy as it is just me probing my head.