Is Cardistry just "Showing Off"?

Discussion in 'Cardistry & Flourishing Forum' started by ZachMueller, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. #81 bloodstar, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2009
    My anwser is YES, it is.
    I love XCM but I mix it with card magic and card cheat technique because I don't think I think it's what people like.
    Not all the people would like to see you manipulating cards for a mininute, on the strret, specially you do all the damn high-speed cuts (tons on youtube). Have you seen an "cardistry" short video (from any theory11 user) on street , for people?
    If you want to be a real performer (instead of show-off guys) with pure XCM, you should be training hours a day (for years) and be able to make a whole long routine for live performance; not for a extremly-edited video. The range of technique will be huge: fans, cuts, spring, perching, aerial, display cuts + other unique things like Motions, Piano Routine etc. The very limited artists can achieve that: De'vo, Jerry, Ciappi, Max
    http://www.wix.com/MaxVlassenko/XCMMAX/BIO
    If you can't do that, only other "cardists" will think you do not show-off.
    Here, if you have Triology or Dangerous DVD, you will understand how The Bucks and D+M mix their effects with flourish.
    I will not like a man come to my restaurant table and do all the fancy card moves (without music) and then leave.
     
  2. #82 magic_slave, Sep 14, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2009
    the most important thing here is what reactions you get in your performances, its not are u just showing off or doing an art. flourish gets "wow" but magic gets " how did u do that", its totally different matter, don't mix them up.

    i just wanna clarify that "we" do what we like, but not people make us do what we do, even though flourish is just simply showing off... from what i get from the spectators are only "wow", don't u enjoy this kinda feeling?

    A: Hey, C is "showing off" with his flourish again.
    B: WHooppee? Can u do that?
    A: No.
    B: That shows that he's good in that field, so he can "show off", this is life bro.
     
  3. If they say, "how did you do that?" Its because you either didnt used patter or they just didnt give you attention to your performance at all.

    Don't take this in a bad way, but saying that magic gets "how did you do that" its simple mediocre.
     
  4. thanks, appreciate your advise.:D
    cheers
     
  5. Personally, I think anyone who says Cardistry isn't showing off is kidding themselves. What you're doing is showing a skill to a person. It's like any other art. Let's say I was an artist, and I decided to release a painting. I'm still "showing off" my skill. Would I want to have skills like that? Heck yes! It's a talent. You are showing off.

    In Cardistry, you are doing insane moves with cards. Even a simple card spring makes people go ".... WHAT?!" That's why it's showing off. You are doing something that nobody else can. If you weren't showing off, then you wouldn't be showing it to any layman. You'd be keeping your cards to yourself.

    Maybe you aren't doing Cardistry to say "I'm a better person than you." Maybe you are just doing it because you enjoy it yourself, and you want to show it to other people to share the awesomeness.

    No matter how you look at it, you're showing off. Whether or not you are doing it to be a jerk ranges from person to person. Either way, you're showing off. You're displaying skill. There's no denying that.

    -Doug
     
  6. umm, i fail to see the relevance of your post to the original question of this thread.
     
  7. Quick note on this since this is slightly off topic: Eric Mead mentions as much in his FORA TV show, the 15 minute one (GREAT routine by the way!). He essentially says, if someone asks him how he did it, he frowns and considers himself to have failed. I think. lol.
     
  8. Yes he does :D ( You Watched It!!)

    He thinks it's a failure on his behalf if someone ask's "How Did You Do That?"
    He says Magic isn't about solving puzzles its about not knowing and not understanding and having a little bit of mystery.

    If someone asks that he says he failed to communicate how special and how rare it is to find these little moments and keep them.

    He comes up with some hilarious remarks.

    To watch the video have a look here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg0AoCXxwBs

    Tom
     
  9. That's the one. Cheers for that mate.
     
  10. Darwin Ortiz also covers this issue in "strong magic"

    He said that the only one that could pull that off presenting magic as a challenge was slydiny, but leavin him aside, he said that presenting tricks as puzzles is ridiculous, because puzzles have answers, and subcounsisly, even if the espectator didnt know how you did that, inside him he is going to be like "I dont know what he did, but there must be a answer".
     
  11. Allright, listen up.
    a) Card flourishing is not juggling, it is a sport in itself
    b) True, it is not magic, but by God, it is damn cool
    c) If you do these flourishes, you will find sleight of hand 100 times easier
    d) It is a skill that should be more respected by magicians
    e) It is realy fun
    I think that the reason that magicians dont respect flourishes, is because they feel threatened by them. True, flourishes are not magic, but if you think about it, neither is geek magic. All you do is apparently put yourself under alot of pain, or discomfort. That is what is entertaining about it, not the trickery involved. (For example, with Sick by Sean Fields, the entertainment comes from you slicing your arm open, not from you getting the coin from your mouth to your arm) Flourishes are beautiful by themselves, and are also great if you build them into magic routines. For instance, is not every card production or change a flourish? And what if you use something like the B4 Cut, or the Werm to build into that production or change? It would be 1000 times better. I personally guaruntee that.
     
  12. Why especially by magicians?
     
  13. really...?
     
  14. Many points that I dun understand .....
    Why magician feel threatened ?
    Are you sure your sleight of hand is 100 time easier ? Give example plz.
     
  15. I think there are some flourishes that look pretty cool, but I've always been more personally entertained by a trick. For example, I'd rather see a car in a high speed chase than just doing donuts in a parking lot... that's how I feel about flourishing. The lack of an objective makes it pretty, but not going anywhere.

    If you want to call it an art, go ahead. When my sister was in kindergarten and made macaroni projects I could safely call that art. Whether it deserves a place among other well respected and widely known arts, like magic, only time will tell. But if you like doing it, whether its an art or not shouldn't matter as much.

    What I don't get is the animosity between cardistry and magic... no, magic is not threatened by cardistry. How could it be? Besides a few short instances of Dan and Dave's stuff I haven't seen cardistry outside of youtube. Most laypeople don't know what it is to begin with. To be honest, claims like these (and others that are heavily exaggerated) just give me the sense that cardistry feels threatened. I'm just sorry that magicians have given them reason to feel threatened.

    Its true that almost anything you do with your hands, whether its with cards or not, could possibly help you with sleight of hand in some way. Cardisty making you 100 times better at sleight of hand makes no sense. Saying "its not showing off, its an art. Learn your facts" is also not a valid argument. I'm sure some of you are offering a little more than this, I'm just saying comments like those aren't really helping.

    My personal feeling is it is an artistic way of showing off...
     
  16. O c'mon guys, lets just drop this subject. Cardistry, Magicians, peace man~
     
  17. #97 KeoSilver, Sep 23, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2009
    So is professional Juggling, when I see cardistry on ESPN I would be more excepting to the thought that it is a sport.


    If that worked for you great, I have attempted my molecule four, butterfly cut (I think it is called guardian.) and I have not noted any significant increase in ease of doing sleight of hand. This is to much of a personal opinion to be given as a fact.

    Other then the older cardists, not calling you old D&D; I have seen no reason to respect the talent of cardists because the majority of the Cardistry community is incredibly immature. I can’t respect someone just based off of their talents, I only can respect someone who is well rounded, kind, and acts in a professional manner.

    HUH
    Moving on
    *Scratches his head until hair starts to be rubbed off.*

    Geek magic is not all about shocking events, which is what shock magic, is. Personally I think you are comparing apples to oranges to tomatoes now; They are all of the fruit family yet distinctly different.

    Also why would we drop this subject, this is a healthy debate thread were really no real bashing has taken place, no racial questioning has been drawn in or other flames. This is what good threads should look like.
     
  18. You're hurting your argument simply by speaking at all.
     
  19. My thoughts. I am not too bad at cardistry/ XCM btw.

    1) Cardistry isn't magic

    2) Cardistry is a performance art similar to JUGGLING! definitely not a sport.

    3) I don't think cardistry and 'magic' can mix well. Really depends how you people define magic. Magic for me is a sense of astonishment from not knowing. Cardistry cannot achieve that for me, but can maybe give me some credibility. Once again how you see your magic will define how you think you can incorporate fancy flourishes. (Fan's, spread, simple stuff = good. Jackson 5 to shuffle a deck= not so good)

    4) Fun, entertaining - That is subjective to individuals

    5) Why do I do cardistry? Because I can =D
     
  20. Is there anything wrong with showing off?

    If you have skill, flaunt it.
     

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