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Discussion in 'Product Questions and Reviews' started by SleepingJag, Nov 9, 2007.
Well said. Life's too short to make such a big fuss over such a small matter.
Firstly - why the heck would I want to try out such an experiment. If I have to do it myself to actually confirm to myself that it is how a coin would roll tumble and fall into a bottle, what the heck would you say to a spectator after the effect? Go home try and put a coin near the back of the bottle and let it go, see how it falls in - it's exactly the same way I showed you now! Wow! That's good convincing, good job.
Visual to you maybe and a few others. But not convincing, just looks like what some others said. A coin behind bottle. I don't know how a coin falls into a bottle, I don't have the time or patience to try it out either.
Confirmed by me? Who told you it is confirmed? The replies in this very thread are just the opposite. Do not draw conclusions just like that.
Audio and visual confirmation. That is good for me.
Of course YOU cannot do it. But many others CAN and it can be achieved with some practise.
That's more than convincing for me. It's not for YOU because you seem to be a move monkey. You don't understand that to the specs it is the same thing. Ironically you yourself have given a similar comment regarding other aspects of your effect.
Firstly you have NO RIGHT to judge Justin on his capabilities. You have NO IDEA how many takes were required and whether he did it a 'million' times. And if that's the way you consider your spectators 'dumbass' well... I have nothing more to say on that. You are not a performer, you're far from one and unless your attitude changes nothing can be done to progress. On top of that you call US the same thing - you disrespect the forum rules and do not respect us. WHY are you still allowed to be here? You shouldn't be here. YOU are the one using the boards to YOUR advantage and you yourself agreed to it. You're just bashing us like you said. BLATANT violation of the rules (if they are enforced).
Ah, here is that line. You are WRONG. I think the reactions from the other CIB's far surpassed the reactions you got. They are NOT more amazed if they can inspect x,y or z, or do a,b or c. Just look at the reactions from people doing other versions. I don't see much of a difference, actually I see better reactions.
Nicely said. I say the same thing back to you. Practise what you preach. Read over your own posts before in multiple closed threads. You speak as if YOU are the voice of ALL.
That shows me how much respect you have for creators and magic. You are GLAD about people pointing out other things in other products when they comment about yours. Again YOU have no right to judge Justin and his capabilities of pulling it off in one in a million or every single time. You DO NOT know.
We are all voicing our views in a civilized manner. The T11 boards have rules. It just has to be enforced. The way the board is run is not upto you. The mods will handle that. No one is 'abusing' their privilege here. These ARE our privileges and we CAN use them, right? If the mods think otherwise they can just close the thread instead of deleting the conflicting posts. Now back to topic.
Why stop? I just got in here. I'm not tired at all. YOU are tired, but who cares about that?
Jack, why are you close to closing this thread? If anyone is arguing why not just remove those posts and let the thread run? We want to know about a product which a lotta people have doubts about as you can see...
After reading about this gimmick thing, it seems like there you need to make 1 or 2 of them or there are 2 different gimmicks that are used for different versions? How clean are you in the end? Do you need to ditch this gimmick? Is it easily available? Do you provide it? How much will it cost us?
I think everyone needs to just get into their pajamas, with a nice big glass of chocolate milk and watch some Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and calm down. This thread is getting way to out of hand.
First thing I thought when I read this was "that sounds immature"
Then I moved past that fact and thought "that sounds totally awesome, I want milk"
First of all, I have performed the slow version and fast version to magicians and layman before I released the product. ALL of them said that the slow penetration looks BETTER.
Of course, I knew that some people like you and a few others like the fast penetration. YOU CAN penetrate the coin fast. You can see the coin flipping and falling fast if you used that method taught in the DVD.
And about the experiment, it is not for laypeople. It is for you guys who think it doesn't look like the real thing. gdw in the Cafe suggested the experiment, and if you tried it, that is how a coin would fall down in a bottle.
And I observed that the few who don't like the slow penetration happened to be supportors and fans of another particular CTB. A strange coincidence perhaps?
You don't understand.
These are the facts.
Sealed & Stuck uses factory sealed bottles where the audience can break the seal.
Factory Sealed don't use factory sealed bottles. The audience cannot break the seal.
Sealed & Stuck can use big signed coins.
Factory Sealed cannot be done with big signed coins.
Both Sealed & Stuck and Factory Sealed cannot be done impromptu.
The above are solid facts that will never change.
The penetration however, is very subjective. You might like FS's penetration, some other people might prefer Sealed & Stuck penetration.
It is like arguing which girl looks more beautiful. It is subjective and if we continue to argue about that, we can continue forever.
That is the difference between you and me.
For me, audio confirmation is not enough. Btw the visual confirmation is not there in Nick's CTB. You cannot let them inspect the seal.
For me, I want to hand the factory sealed bottle to them. I want them to inspect and break the seal themselves.
I want them to be SURE that the bottle is REALLY FACTORY SEALED. No questions.
Many others!? Are you serious!?
Other people have confirmed that Justin pull that off in the DVD due to LUCK.
Actually the kid in the video DID NOT break the seal himself. Justin opened the bottle. That kid is actually lying in that video.
Those who watched the whole performance can confirmed that. That kid DID NOT open the bottle.
Think about it, how many times do you expect that to happen? How many times do you think you can make someone "thinks" that they opened the bottle when in fact YOU opened it in front of them yourself?
Moreover, you CANNOT let them inspect and break the seal in Nick's CTB. How many times do you have to mislead people?
Haha that is actually the best part of the effect.
Don't worry about the "ditching" "cost" and "how clean you are". You don't have to worry about all that. That is the beauty of the gimmick.
Magicians have told me how happy they were when they knew what the gimmick is.
I cannot say more without exposure. But trust me, the gimmick is clever and will go undetected for the whole performance. And don't need to worry about "how clean you are". Due to the nature of the gimmick, that is a non issue.
If you noticed, the reactions for my effect goes on longer. Do you know why? Because the audience can play with the factory sealed bottle.
When the coin visually penetrates, can you hear and see the reactions? You can hear the "Wa!" and they just went crazy.
When I hand the factory sealed bottle to the girl, look at her reaction. She is shocked that the bottle is still factory sealed.
She tried very hard to break the seal, and she broke half of the seal. Finally the bottle is opened.
Then the coin is trapped inside the bottle. They are again shocked to find that the coin is bigger than the neck of the bottle.
That is the beauty of Sealed & Stuck. The reactions don't just stop there after you finish the effect. It goes on and on.
I actually practice that. Go look at my post about the penetration.
I remembered people were using words that are far worst against me back in the E's forum. They are bashing the hell out of me with higly offensive words. But you as a moderator did not stand out and warn those people. Why are those people still allowed to be in the E's forum? If you said people who used offensive words should be banned, then go back to your forums and ban those people.
Steerpike, another moderator in the E forums called me a whore and hypocrite. I don't think he is respecting the rules here either. Should we ban him too? And the thing that worries me is he is a moderator in the E's forum.
I wanted to stop all these arguments but seems like you want to continue.
Maybe you are not tired. But other people, me, the moderators of T11 forums are all tired of this.
As a moderator, you should know when to stop.
You know why Jack is closing this thread. Everything is peaceful until you came back with your post.
As you can see, I have answered all questions. Where is the doubt? I don't hide. I'll answer all the questions.
Jack, I have a feeling this would not stop. I'm really very very tired of this. I hope you can close this thread if you see anymore offensive post.
I'm really sick of this.
I know of one, and the coin can be siged too, and it can be a half dollar.
Are you talking about Behold the The Scarabaeus? You can stuff a handphone inside the bottle too.
But you need to use an empty bottle for that effect.
Sounds good Rebel but I think that I would rather watch Star Wars but that is just me.
Andy... please lets talk about Sealed and Stuck and not discuss Factory Sealed. And please lets not discuss AJ and Steerpike being moderators at Ellusionist we all know that you have issues with Ellusionist.
Lets go back to the subject of the gimmick and ditching the gimmick. Do you have a gimmick in hand that has to be ditched or not?
You COMPLETELY missed my point. It's not about me liking it or not or whether other magicians like it. My point is that I don't know how a coin will fall into a bottle like that actually, and I wouldn't care less to find out how either. Stuff like that rarely happens and if you need people to actually see how it really looks first and then go on to convince them with magic, there is no magic. Why would I want to test it out on myself? My spectators don't know how it actually happens either.
Again, you missed my point. That is just YOUR opinion. Read what I quoted - you said it was CONFIRMED that Sealed and Stuck is better than FS. Then how come it isn't a bestseller?
AGAIN - you totally missed my point. Read what I quoted. I quote carefully and for a reason. The SPECTATOR confirmed it by saying it (audio) and it was caught on tape (visual). That is what I meant. What more could you ask for?
Now you are accusing the spectator of lying. Great, just great. And again you are judging Justin's capabilities when you have no right to. You don't know him, you don't know his stuff and what he can/cannot pull off. And you also say he pulled it off because of LUCK. Marvelous.
Obviously you aren't familiar with much mentalism. This can actually happen many times. Now, I know you are going to attack me and say now is that taught in the DVD? No, you will have to buy Luke Jermay's suggestion booklet for that. Save it.
Just because you haven't tried it and you cannot do it doesn't mean it cannot be done. Go to your friends refrigerator, take out a sealed bottle of water and perform the effect. You think he's gonna torment you with a bunch of questions after the effect on it being really sealed or not? Let him open the seal, I doubt he will care. You don't even have to suggest that it is a 'factory sealed' bottle. It's all in the routine and it happens automatically. Now this is off topic and I am just responding to your argumental fallacies.
Still haven't answered parts of my question. Will I have to make it or will I have to buy it or will you provide it? How long will it take to make initially. When I handle the stuff to them are you clean? You say I don't have to worry about how clean I am. I worry. And how many different gimmicks in all for the various versions? 1, 2?
Again you missed my point. Read the quote I am responding to first. Anyhow since you mentioned that - check out the performance "Stevie Wonder" for length of reaction. I believe that is the one.
This is the point in question - For me, I think about the audience. They will be more amazed if they can inspect and break the seal. They will be more amazed when the coin and point of penetration is not covered. They will be more amazed if the coin is bigger than the neck of the bottle.
That is just a personal opinion. You think they will be more amazed because of that? I don't, seeing the trailers for the other CIB's tells another story.
Again, you missed what I meant.
This was not directed at you, and there is no need for you to cover up for him. Once again you start bringing up the topic of E's moderation and whine about it. This is not about that, but don't start another topic complaining about it. You've already been banned from reputed boards for that. Remember - you don't call the shots in here or over there. They are both private boards and being able to access it is a privilege. They have every right to do whatever they want and cannot be questioned. It is their house and they make and run it.
Who said we are arguing? This is just a discussion and we are letting people know about your product. You should be happy that you are getting some free advertising and no longer need to do that in 'other well known ways'.
It is still peaceful.
I'm sure there will be more questions.
Yeah, now request a closure, back out, that's the best way eh? You think we aren't tired of all the stuff that has come up in the past? None of these posts are offensive. By offensive, it would have to be far worse than you imagine on these boards.
Jack, you don't have to close this. Take a look at the other threads you have closed. Are they on par with them to be closed? Let this run, there's nothing wrong with this. (And Andy, please do not quote this).
arvindj227, I can reply to every part of your posts and accusations. But I'm not going to do that.
Basically you are just repeating the same thing.
Then I have to repeat the same answers to you.
This will never end.
People who have a good look at this thread should know what some of you here are trying to do.
I have tried my best to answer every questions.
I even answer you questions that have to do with the gimmicks. By right I'm not suppose to do that.
I have told Jack that I would try my best to maintain the peace down here. This back and forth argument have to end somewhere.
Sleepjag is trying very hard to keep this thread alive too. Your post is not helping at all.
Alright, Ellusionist has created a CTB. I have created a CTB too. Does that mean that we have to fight until there is only one man standing?
Yes, I have post things in the E's CTB thread that you don't like to see. But I do that becasue some of the information provided was misleading. For example some people said you can let the audience break the seal of the bottle, which is NOT TRUE.
As you can see I don't really post in other CTB threads. Because there is no need to. There are no misleading information and people are not confused. People have asked the creator of Impervious and Lucid Dream questions, and they gave straight honest open answers. Hence I don't see the need to post in those threads.
Here I'm answering the questions of SleepingJag. I'm open with my answers and I clearly point out what my effect CAN and CANNOT accomplish.
I don't see why there is a need for these back and forth arguments. You asked a question, I answer the question. End of story.
Due to a few members here, this thread has turned into a Sealed & Stuck VS Factory Sealed or AndyAce VS Ellusionist thread.
Some people might find all this drama entertaining.
But the fact is I'm sick of it.
SleepingJag, I'm very sorry but I have to asked the moderators to close this thread.
For your last question, my answer is there is a clean up. But you don't have to worry about the clean up. It is as easy as the clean up taught in other CTBs like Factory Sealed.
Jack, is it possible to just close this thread? It is a painful thing to do, but all this back and forth argument is more painful to me.
If other people have more questions about Sealed & Stuck, feel free to pm me or send me an email.
wow ummmm..... so is there a user review on sealed and stuck. If no one has tried the effect yet I think i'll buy it and try it and let you guys know. How does that sound?? If I get enough responses, I'll buy and try, if I don't than I am just moving on.
Also here is my opinion. If you really like CTB performances, I say get all the versions that are available. That way you are not doing one type of performance and can really mix is up alot. One guy will say he did it like this, another will say but he did it like this for me etc.
THAT should be a real reputation builder, being able to do one trick so many different ways it will HAVE to look impromptu after the 5 different versions. Also these days EVERYONE drinks bottled water so even if you supply one, it shouldn't raise too many questions because it's a huge industry.
Now if you did a coin through baby diapers trick, THAT might raise an eyebrow.
PM if you guys want a review, i'll buy and review. If someone already did buy and review forgive this post because i really didn't the middle parts cuz they were too long.
Clarrus I would love to see a review from you.
A coin through a baby diaper trick - is that a full diaper or just a diaper... sorry I couldn't resist. And that isn't a hint for someone to create this one.
Thank you I thought that I saw something strange in the video. And I don't worry about the clean up but I did fail to see that it was mentioned in the advertisements and in your post that the trick involved a gimmick and there was a clean up with the gimmick.
I personally think that the thread should stay open because I am sure that they are more knowledgable here then I am that would be able to ask better questions. But in the end that is Jack's choice.
Which seems to be exactly what you want.
Name names. If it's confirmed beyond the shadow of a doubt with video-documented proof, I want to see who can present this evidence to me.
Oh spare me. I'm astounded how little regard you have for people's intelligence.
In 9 out of 10 performances, I can actually convince a spectator that they felt the coins switch places inside their hands.
Who's to say I can't retool their memories with more practice?
You're more obsessed with the moves than anything else. You're not connecting with your audience or emotionally involving them the way that a great magician like Christian Chelman would.
It's a water bottle. How hard do you have to try to break the seal on the cap?
In your own words, please stay on topic.
No one is buying this victim card crap. You've over-played it.
When it's convenient for you. You've done nothing to convince me that I should buy this effect. All you've done is beat your chest about how great you think your method is.
Face the facts, your CIB may be ok for you...but in a global market where magicians expect something more, it doesn't have a chance.
It's not as practical, not as magical looking either.
A COIN FALLING behind the bottle is NOT a visual penetration.
It's a coin FALLING behind the bottle...and cloaked behind the fingers like the sun behind the grey clouds...the clean up is so obvious too.
Andy, your LIFE ... Go enjoy it!
I wish you peace ... and a good nights rest as well.
And if you want to talk about penetrations, I can write a whole 5000 words essay on CTB penetrations.
If you penetrate a coin through the middle of the bottle, it will 100% fall and sink on it's way to the bottom of the bottle.
The fact that they can see the coin penetrates, THEN fall inside the bottle is what make this effect so strong. More things are happening in this effect. It's not just "the coin penetrates the bottom of the bottle" then that's it.
For Sealed & Stuck, the audience can first see the coin penetrates, THEN the falling of the coin inside the bottle. It is a bonus for the audience.
If you just drop a coin and let it fall outside the bottle, you won't achieve the same effect. Go try it yourself, go drop a coin outside the bottle, you will see what I mean.
Here are some comments from gdw in the magic cafe. He even suggest a way to show that the penetration looks convincing.
Also, try dropping a coin just along the back of abottle and see if it looks like that.
In other words, If you can do real magic, if you can really penetrate a coin through the middle of the bottle, that is EXACTLY what it would look like.
How it that NOT convincing?
steerpike, i already said don't try to smoke people with this.
Actually I have no problem with Factory Sealed at all. But I do have problems with people who tried to feed people false information about Factory Sealed.
No matter how good your suggestion is, you CANNOT LET THEM INSPECT THE SEAL. YOU CANNOT LET THEM BREAK THE SEAL.
And I say to you that should make no difference to a good magician.
I didn't swim through that mess of postings... so I figured I juast ask my questions and hope they weren't answered earlier.
Can I borrow the bottle?
Can I let the spectator sign the initials on one side, and another random number from 1 to 1000 on the other side on the coin (and still let them break the seal)?
Can the bigger coin be done impromptu with a borrowed bottle from the spectator?
Can the Spectator hold the bottle while you do the penetration?
Can you let go of the bottle right after the penetration?
Thanks in advance.
For the factory sealed version, No. For the impromptu version, yes. (but the bottle is not factory sealed)
That is a very interesting question.
In theory, due to the method and nature of Signed Sealed & Stuck, you CAN let them sign both sides of the coin. But I normally just asked them to sign one side of the coin. But if you have the DVD, you will understand why it can still work if they signed it 2 sides.
Yes, they can still break the seal. That is how I taught the effect in the DVD.
No, it cannot be done. No CTB can be done impromptu with a bigger coin and a borrowed brand new bottle yet anyway.
If you want to do the big coin ending with a factory sealed bottle, you need to use your own bottle.
Yes... but I don't see why you want to do that.
The bottle will hit the floor and people will just stare at you. Not very entertaining.
Interesting answer as well
I actually asked if they can sign their initials and/or a random number they thought it. By not responding to that point I take that as a "No you can't".
Not going any deeper into that because of the exposure.
Since I didn't know if the spectator can hold the bottle in your version, I thought it would be nice if I can let go of it right after the penetration.
They can sign their initials and/or random number they thought of. Due to the nature of the effect, it can be done.
Those who own the DVD will get what I mean.
If any people who owns the product don't get what I meant, feel free to pm me.
Thanks. You are right.