theory11 — Magic Tricks & the World's Finest Playing Cards
New York, New York
Los Angeles, California
Our team is composed of the best of the best minds in the magic industry - from performers to creators and consultants.
From mind-blowing illusions to the world's finest playing cards, theory11 values quality over quantity.
theory11 artists are the foremost experts in the conjuring arts - from new upcoming talent to magic's greatest historians.
We produce world-class shows and live-events. Learn more about The Magician at The NoMad and what we can do for you!
Our team has consulted on countless projects relating to magic on stage and on screen around the world.
Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by wavehead15, Aug 17, 2008.
it depeneds if some one is making money out of it, if so thats just theft
1. Sharing your own tricks is ok.
2. Sharing other people's tricks is NOT ok, unless that other person specifically gave you permission.
3. Borrowing other people's DVDs to learn a tricks is the same as number 2.
4. Copying someone's DVD is illegal AND number 3 still applies.
5. Downloading the DVD to learn the trick is the same as number 4, which means number 3 still applies, which means number 2 applies.
Alright guys I'm uploading the trilogy as we speak whoever wants i pm me.
yea ok, this guy is really getting on my nerves with the exposure
If I buy a dvd to learn more magic I purchase the right to watch,learn and perform that magic not the right to share it with another-layman or magician.
Sharing secrets among magicians is BAD if it is someone elses ORIGINAL effect. But sharing subtleties on different effects such as the ACR and IP and numerous well-known effects isn't. I didn't create the ACR but me and some of my friends talk about it. But two of my magician friends are Best friends and whenever a new release comes out they alternate in buying it and they practice together and help each other out with the effects, is this bad? I think that this is harmless especially since it is only them two. I buy all of my material because I am also a collector I enjoy collecting DVDs, books and Playing Cards. Its what I like.
I was under the impression that as magicians we share a common goal: of providing moments of astonishment for those with whom we share magic.
I believe in a "fraternity" of magicians, into which one would be initiated by proving oneself. Within, there would be no "secrets."
Keeping secrets among magicians is only necessary if you want to try to be "better" than another magician. Which has become an unhealthy, ego-filled competition.
Of course on the internet it is impossible to tell who is who, and so I don't believe in sharing methods on the internet, except through the purchase of downloadables- what Ellusionist and Theory11 do. But person to person, I think that it is perfectly acceptable, and would encourage it.
It is of note that copying a DVD is an entirely different story. That is illegal. But two people can sit in the same room and watch it at the same time, can they not?
i couldnt agree more with what you said here. you and i think exactly the same way. I believe that we are all on the same team (which we are) and that we work as a team to help everyone out.
it is us against the laymen and in order for us to win, we (should) work together to become the best at our art as possible.
Its like owning a movie and having a party to watch that movie. Same concept. You have it, your friend wants to watch it, and it is up to you whether you let them or not. There isn't a problem with the law or anything else unless you get the DVD pirated off line. Then you are under the risk of having to pay thousands of bucks in fines.
In my opinion, magicians can share as many secrets with each other as they want to as long as they are both OK with it. If magicians didn't do that, we wouldn't have some of the great magicians that we have today. Magicians should definitely keep the secrets from laymen, but if they genuinely know the person and trust that they will do well with the effect, they can loan the DVD all they want. Its all a matter of trust and experience.
exactly. Said just the way I was trying to say it.
That's the problem. I didn't want to let him have it.
Look at this:
"Obviously no one can stop an individual from revealing secrets. Revealing secrets of another magicians work is unethical, dishonest and wrong.
If there is a debate about it, then it is just from those who want free stuff. The disagreement is driven by greed, not a sense of right and wrong. There are dozens of illustrations you could make, but if I created a trick, and confided in an individual about the method, and that person went and told others without my permission, that's a huge breach of trust.
So it really comes down to a character issue. What kind of person do you want to be?"
If I don't want to let you have my dvd, I don't have to give it to you. Why should I let you have my dvd if you're just going to hack my youtube, website, and give my videos bad ratings if I don't give it to you? The point is, I can't even risk associating myself with you. I don't know what you would do. You get jealous so you try to destroy my stuff. And you're one to call me "not a half-decent person." Jeez.
The only reason you even hung around me was to get free stuff. "work together to become the best at our art as possible." In other words, I should pay for the dvds and then let you have them. Whatever.
Great! Then everything that I said before played out. You made a choice and he might not like it, but as stated before, you payed the $50 for the DVD. You guys should really work this out though because there is no reason to get worked up over a $50 DVD. Magicians working together is more important than $50. Even if you dont want to share secrets, but just tips about performance and things you learned that is totally fine too. Just dont get all ticked at each other for something so little. Make sense?
Yeah, but you don't know the full story. It's not that little. That guy is not to be trusted. I wouldn't even call him a magician. All he does is illegally download it from the internet, buy the dvds, make a copy, then take them back. I've also think he just does it to get girls attention. Read my first post on this thread for most of the story. This guy tried to destroy all my work.
Yeah I read it. And its becuase of that reason, that you think he's not a mature magician and is not worth lending your DVD to, that you didn't. It was obviously a good call on your part!
Why thank you. Finally someone who understands.
Your welcome. After many experiences that have come my way, you would think that ID catch on!
wow...this threads like....wow, haha. anywayssss, what i think wave wutever (forgot his username, sorry) the guy who started this thread* is doing is wrong obviously. He should understand of course it's alright to share secrets to anyone, i mean its YOUR choice, it depends on the person YOU are. If you dont have a guilty coincence (spellcheck?) , and think its alright to illegal download stuff OTHER magician work there ass off, then go ahead, we cant do anything about it. now back to the REAL topic, what he asked was simply if its alright to share secrets with other magicians. i think its alright if both are okay with it, but if your forcing the other person to reveal secrets....thats when it gets messed up. people should be able to respect one anothers choices. So my answer to ur poll wouldnt be yes or no. it would be "Depends on the Situation".
When I'm on forums like T11 or Ellusionist, I always feel quite alone on this. It not surprising when sites like this have been an introduction into magic for many people, and so they have been conditioned into a very commercial way of thinking about magic.
I personally think there is nothing wrong with sharing secrets with other magicians, providing it is done with best discretion. (Please note, I am not using the word discretion lightly.)
If you are talking with friends that you know have a genuine respect for magic and the people who create magic, then I don't see why you shouldn't share "secrets". You can then trust their discretion as to whether or not, given the situation with the particular secret, they then make a purchase, which might be done purely out of respect for it's originator.
Of all the magical DVDs and products on the market, I find that often the ones of highest quality, the ones truly worth buying, actually make no effort to sell the secrets at all. Sometimes, the method might be obvious in the previews, but that doesn't make it any less worth buying. As a contrast, some retailers make it a key point in their criteria for a shelf-worthy product to have them "look good in a preview" and be "almost impossible to figure out". I find it ironic that this kind of marketing is generally targeting the audience with the most potential of having people ready to mass-expose the secrets.
To begin with, the first is true, to an extent. And yet the most famous magician of all (Harry Houdini) exposed any rival escape artist, magician, or "spirit medium" as a fraud. He also traveled around the country seeking bizarrists, and after paying a small fee for their secrets, published them in a book.
I'm not saying it is right; but it is something to think about. But what about the special circumstances such as the lack of money to spend on magic, parents forbidding their children to practice magic, and other such things? What are they to do?
The disagreement is NOT driven by greed, and I take that as a very personal offense. I have invented a few effects myself, and if you were to ask me their methods (under the condition that I knew you personally to be trustworthy) then I would be happy to oblige, and delighted to see you perform them. It could be said that your own statement is driven by greed, because you don't want to share with any magicians, regardless of character. That is greed. I don't believe you are that kind of person, but look through both pairs of eyes before making personal accusations.
It also offends me that you have implied that my character is flawed because I believe in sharing secrets among magicians. Let it be known that I absolutely abhor what occured by the other member attempting to pirate your DVD, hack your website, and ruin your videos. I am not in any way saying that that is right behavior: what he or she did to you is absolutely WRONG. It is exactly my point: secrets should be shared among TRUSTWORTHY magicians, who will respect them, and, should they ever perform them, perform them so that the secrets shall remain a secret among magicians only. Do these views make me a bad person?
I also agree that it is completely within your rights to refuse a person whom you believed untrustworthy of magical secrets. What you did is called good judgement.
Wavehead, what you did to Zeedub is atrocious. Do not quote me as agreeing with you, because I do not at all support your actions.