I would explore more points than giving joy but honestly there are too many to cover. So many things come into play with being a magician/ artist but I do feel that spectators and giving them joy and happiness are key.
You are not an artist!
- Thread starter Steerpike
- Start date
I would explore more points than giving joy but honestly there are too many to cover. So many things come into play with being a magician/ artist but I do feel that spectators and giving them joy and happiness are key.
Well, specifically I was asking, "Does my answer matter?"
But if you would like to develop this train of thought, go right ahead.
There can be good presentations for Stigmata. Most people just don't bother to write them.
You'd be surprised.
I never claimed I didn't. And I full advocate beginners mimicking the best. I've gotten hate mail for saying that, as a matter of fact.
But posting a webcam video of yourself in grayscale shot almost entirely in profile with no talking and generic techno/soundtrack music isn't particularly... subtle.
What I am trying to accomplish is the complete and total mastery of my art known as "performace arts."
now to re iterate I do consider myself a performance artist.
I agree with steerpike on a few of the points so you are not alone sinful.
Some things i agree and disagree, while I don't even consider magicians to be artists anyways if you were to classify them then no many people who perform magic are not artists. Maybe its possible to classify them as poor artists but then again I would be want to be labeled as artist in training or something like that.
To many people have awful performing skills and sleights and etc. Some people need to work on improvisation skills and performance skills.
Some things i agree and disagree, while I don't even consider magicians to be artists anyways if you were to classify them then no many people who perform magic are not artists. Maybe its possible to classify them as poor artists but then again I would be want to be labeled as artist in training or something like that.
To many people have awful performing skills and sleights and etc. Some people need to work on improvisation skills and performance skills.
Things have calmed down. There's intelligent discussion going, but there's also a fair amount whining.
Which is why we should talk about it. If we can't come to a unanimous conclusion and agreement, we can at least share some ideas and get everyone thinking.
Okay. Now... what are you trying to do? What do you want to communicate?
It seems I've already succeeded in dragging you down to my level as you said already that you were going to leave to maintain your dignity, and yet... here you are.
What does that do for the audience?
Two words. Budget Constraints. It's easier to find whatever rock/metal/goth/rap song you want and then just record yourself performing for a cheap webcam. Because most kids/teenagers don't have digital video recorders or anything. I do agree that seeing them sit in front of a computer is pretty lame and not what magic is for. But only because you can't entertain an inanimate object. The web cam isn't going to freak out and run away (and if does, then you should call somebody.). I just think most people don't script what they do because they don't consider it the fun part and think they have to write a few paragraph's on the subject. Tho it does help a lot that you know what you are talking about when doing whatever presentation. You don't have to have to know EVERYTHING about it, but maybe a enough to sound believable.
I do agree that most kids should look into other things besides Daniel Madison and Dan and Dave Buck. Just because I think most people won't know were they want to go in magic till they know where it's been.
Yes, I understand budget constraints, but usually crappy webcam videos are synonymous with crappy performance. I have yet to see a great performance on a crappy webcam
It makes my art even more enjoyable for the audience to watch. Although I am a performance artist there is always room for improvement.
I didn't want to have to be on the nose about this, but what I just described are the videos blatantly ripping off Daniel Madison's video performance style.
I wrote a book on that actually. (Shameless self-advertising said with a straight face.)
Mostly, my problem here is the celebrity culture in the magic community. I hate to say it, but I remember days when Theory 11's forums were basically TMZ for magicians, and the list of names they talked about rarely cracked double digits. I appreciate the company enforcing brand loyalty, but sometimes the fan reactions border on the grotesque.
Why should I care? What's in it for me as a spectator?
Same question. What about it is enjoyable? What do I get out of it?
Well im good.
Reading throughout these posts helped me assure myself in my art and developed some new views on it.
Which is the whole point of this thread isnt it?
Reading throughout these posts helped me assure myself in my art and developed some new views on it.
Which is the whole point of this thread isnt it?
What kind of an answer are you expecting? As I stated, I'm aware that its up to me to prove my claims if I feel I need validation - which is a whole other issue. This continuous bouncing back of questions doesn't achieve anything!
Actually, just to add to my response, you didn't consider the main body of my first post, which I feel is very relevant.
Actually, just to add to my response, you didn't consider the main body of my first post, which I feel is very relevant.
What a new years gift, to see Steerpike back 
I am not an artist. I don't see myself ever becoming one through magic. To me, an artist has to inject the human element into what he does. He has to provoke some kind of a reaction from deep within a person, whether it be an emotional, intellectual or any other kind. Dig into the depeest crevaces of someone's mind through whatever medium he so chooses. I don't expect anyone here to do that. I think if you can do that, you're an artist. I cannot do that. Maybe someday I will. And it's a pity some people fight so much for a title that they haven't earned. Who the **** gave that title to them besides themselves?
And Steerpike, why do you put "Prove me wrong." at the bottom of your posts. Anyone with an IQ above 60 should have figured out that's impossible by now
I am not an artist. I don't see myself ever becoming one through magic. To me, an artist has to inject the human element into what he does. He has to provoke some kind of a reaction from deep within a person, whether it be an emotional, intellectual or any other kind. Dig into the depeest crevaces of someone's mind through whatever medium he so chooses. I don't expect anyone here to do that. I think if you can do that, you're an artist. I cannot do that. Maybe someday I will. And it's a pity some people fight so much for a title that they haven't earned. Who the **** gave that title to them besides themselves?
And Steerpike, why do you put "Prove me wrong." at the bottom of your posts. Anyone with an IQ above 60 should have figured out that's impossible by now
Could be. Could be...
Hmm.... Personally speaking, I'll pass.
Even in the performance arts, you need to communicate something no matter how abstract.
I'm not questioning your claims at all. In admitting that you cannot provide physical proof at this moment, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're telling me the truth.
But I don't really care how many years you've been working professionally. That's not the criteria I'm using. What I'm asking is what I as an audience member am supposed to take away from your show. What are you trying to make me think or feel? What ideas do you want to communicate to me?
Boy if I had a nickel every time someone said that.
-Michael
hahahahaha, thats funny.
Eureka! moment number 4! Took a while, but we got it!
In fact, I'm going to quote that again in bigger bold letters so no one misses it because it's one of the most important we've had yet.
And Steerpike, why do you put "Prove me wrong." at the bottom of your posts. Anyone with an IQ above 60 should have figured out that's impossible by now
For laughs, mostly.
I don't think spectators care if a person calls themselves and artist or not. We are entertainers and the moment you go "I am an artist." it kind of takes the fun out of the whole thing for them. That's the last thing you want to do. You can make them realize it is an art in different ways.
For the most part, it really shouldn't matter to the spectator if you consider yourself and artist or a card shark or a Carrot Top. Just as long as you keep them entertained and take them down the rabbit hole.
If somebody was to ask me what I consider myself. I'd simply say a "magician". Simple because that it was I am and that is what I do. I don't think any painters or writers or musicians need any validation of what their title is. Because deep down inside, they already know what and who they are and have no need to prove it to their audiences. The only difference is that most of the general public will always have that image of a Magician being somebody who does balloon animals and kid shows.
Tho if you want to get technical about it. You could say anybody in the Entertainment world is merely a "Performance Artist.".
As for people copying the black and white static feel of Daniel Madison's video's is probably due to them thinking that it looks cool and that if it worked for him, it should make me look cool. I'm sure you'd get the same type of look if you introduced all those kids to Daryl video's or Bill Malone or David Williamson video's and so on. All they really know is DM stuff so that's all they have to base their image off of. It's sad, I know. But it's primary up to them if they want to invest in books or DVD's of other well known guys.
For the most part, it really shouldn't matter to the spectator if you consider yourself and artist or a card shark or a Carrot Top. Just as long as you keep them entertained and take them down the rabbit hole.
If somebody was to ask me what I consider myself. I'd simply say a "magician". Simple because that it was I am and that is what I do. I don't think any painters or writers or musicians need any validation of what their title is. Because deep down inside, they already know what and who they are and have no need to prove it to their audiences. The only difference is that most of the general public will always have that image of a Magician being somebody who does balloon animals and kid shows.
Tho if you want to get technical about it. You could say anybody in the Entertainment world is merely a "Performance Artist.".
As for people copying the black and white static feel of Daniel Madison's video's is probably due to them thinking that it looks cool and that if it worked for him, it should make me look cool. I'm sure you'd get the same type of look if you introduced all those kids to Daryl video's or Bill Malone or David Williamson video's and so on. All they really know is DM stuff so that's all they have to base their image off of. It's sad, I know. But it's primary up to them if they want to invest in books or DVD's of other well known guys.