You are not an artist!

Oct 15, 2008
826
0
Tennessee
We're debating magic theory. What's wrong with that? We're all learning. No one should take any of this as personal attacks, nor should they attack people.

This is a lot more creative and entertaining than all of the "Which is better" threads or the "This guy was here the other day!" threads.

-Kevin

very true.
 
Mar 30, 2008
203
0
DC
That is true..to an extent.

Just because you practice your art, it does not mean you are an artist.

If i pick up a violin and play five notes for 5 minutes, I am not a violinist. I am some teenager who picked up a violin and tried playing it. Even if I played the 5 notes properly for those 5 minutes, I am NOT a violinist.

There is more to being an artist than creating and practicing art. Once you reach a certain tier of proficiency you can declare yourself an artist.

If some kid took your deck of cards in the middle of a trick and did a key card trick that blew no one away, would you consider him a magician or an artist.

Let's say he went home, practiced the same trick, came back the next day, and did the SAME TRICK. Would you consider him an artist or magician then? Your answer SHOULD NOT depend on the reactions he recieved. He has taken maybe 1 hour out of his day to learn a basic trick. You on the other hand have been practicing for years. Are the two of you on the same boat? Are you both magicians/artists?

NO. He is on his way to becoming an artist. He is NOT an "amateur" artist and you probably are not a "professional" artist. An artist is a career in its own. Thus, there are only professional artists. Professional=A JOB.

An artist is ALWAYS a professional. If you think you are an artist and you are not a pro at what you do, then you are not an artist. You are on the route to becoming an artist.

Why are we not all on the artists page of Theory 11? It is because the people on that page are professionals. They are great at what they do. We are all working up to become an artist. We are not yet at that level. Some of us may be close to being a true artist-Andrei was and he was accepted into T11's tier of being an Artist.

Someone who truly practices and has truly given time into an "art form" can call themselves an artist. Uhh, hello being some teenager doing street magic for 2 years does NOT make you an artist. Take a look at Chris Kenner. HE can be classified as an artist because he has been doing magic from before most of us were born. He helped CREATE A SITE for all of us "on route to becoming an artist." Chris Kenner has created so much material that we all learn from. And to top it all off, he has great experience as a performer. HE can be classified as an artist.

As you can see, most of us are not artists. We are on route to becoming artists. LOOK at the Top of this page. Under the tab "Artists", are you there? Do you compare youself to anyone on that list? Do you think you are maybe half as good as some of the people on there? You shouldn't. If you do, you are either cocky-or you truly are good at your artform.

Steerpike has brought up a great point. Its time we learn our place. Most of us are not artists, but people on the road to becoming one.
 
May 9, 2008
603
0
Ok, I'll concede that it does make you less of an artist but it doesn't make you not an artist.

Sinful, and here we go again, you have a specific idea, a personal opinion about what art is, and you list specific criteria. "However, to be CONSIDERED an artist in my eye..."

IN YOUR EYE. In other peoples eyes, they might be an artist. So who is right then? Are they or are they not artists? Let's look at the definition of art, and you'll find that, just becuase it's your opinion, or that you don't consider them as not an artist doesn't mean they aren't one.

Just because you're a famous artist doesn't make people less famous not artists.

So at what point do we consider ourselves artists? When we make the artists page on Theory11? I'll laugh out loud to that one. I'm not saying they aren't all very skilled and amazing. I'm just saying they are "Theory 11 Artists". There are many artists out there not on the Theory 11 Artists page.

At what specific point did Dave and Dan make the transformation to artists? Was it before or after they learned the Jones Change?

If you practice a certain art you are an artist in that art, no matter what your skill level.

I'm pretty much done arguing semantics.
 
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Aug 10, 2008
2,023
2
33
In a rock concert
Hey everyone, this is a good discussion. LET'S KEEP IT CLEAN! :D Let's try to be respectful. This is a great topic to talk ab out so let's try not to offend anyone. Good clean discussion is always welcomed here. Personal bashing and rude posts are not and I'm seeing that from a few people in here. Let's try to keep the thread opened for a while, ok? Thanks. ;)

-Doug

Yeah, jaja, things are going personal... if you have a opinion, state it the best you can and that's all, if I post the comments I make, it's because Im hoping that some guys herre can spend more time thinking about the thread itself, rather than a way to bring the poster down.
 
Sep 30, 2008
310
0
34
Pittsburgh
That is true..to an extent.

Just because you practice your art, it does not mean you are an artist.

If i pick up a violin and play five notes for 5 minutes, I am not a violinist. I am some teenager who picked up a violin and tried playing it. Even if I played the 5 notes properly for those 5 minutes, I am NOT a violinist.

There is more to being an artist than creating and practicing art. Once you reach a certain tier of proficiency you can declare yourself an artist.

If some kid took your deck of cards in the middle of a trick and did a key card trick that blew no one away, would you consider him a magician or an artist.

Let's say he went home, practiced the same trick, came back the next day, and did the SAME TRICK. Would you consider him an artist or magician then? Your answer SHOULD NOT depend on the reactions he recieved. He has taken maybe 1 hour out of his day to learn a basic trick. You on the other hand have been practicing for years. Are the two of you on the same boat? Are you both magicians/artists?

NO. He is on his way to becoming an artist. He is NOT an "amateur" artist and you probably are not a "professional" artist. An artist is a career in its own. Thus, there are only professional artists. Professional=A JOB.

An artist is ALWAYS a professional. If you think you are an artist and you are not a pro at what you do, then you are not an artist. You are on the route to becoming an artist.

Why are we not all on the artists page of Theory 11? It is because the people on that page are professionals. They are great at what they do. We are all working up to become an artist. We are not yet at that level. Some of us may be close to being a true artist-Andrei was and he was accepted into T11's tier of being an Artist.

Someone who truly practices and has truly given time into an "art form" can call themselves an artist. Uhh, hello being some teenager doing street magic for 2 years does NOT make you an artist. Take a look at Chris Kenner. HE can be classified as an artist because he has been doing magic from before most of us were born. He helped CREATE A SITE for all of us "on route to becoming an artist." Chris Kenner has created so much material that we all learn from. And to top it all off, he has great experience as a performer. HE can be classified as an artist.

As you can see, most of us are not artists. We are on route to becoming artists. LOOK at the Top of this page. Under the tab "Artists", are you there? Do you compare youself to anyone on that list? Do you think you are maybe half as good as some of the people on there? You shouldn't. If you do, you are either cocky-or you truly are good at your artform.

Steerpike has brought up a great point. Its time we learn our place. Most of us are not artists, but people on the road to becoming one.

I was just about to bring up the Artists page. Every single person on that page has defined themselves as an artist. If they didn't, then they wouldn't be there, and that is the reason we are not on that page.

-Kevin
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
98% of us? Wow I hope you are trying to exaggerate.

He's within his rights to say that, because he's smarter than 98% of you. If for no other reason than by virtue of the fact that he will work for what he wants rather than claiming entitlement.

My point that I have been trying to convey in short is that we are all artists, but to varying degrees, or like Steerpike says, No one is an artist. The reason for this would be cause the word artist is one that can be given to anyone.

And that's the problem. What good is the word "art" when it's as generic and universal as the word "thing"?

he just started this thread to argue

As opposed to starting it to make pizza?

ugh... you don't know what art is.

Try me. Show me your best.

I'm not meaning to offend anyone, I'm just stating my opinion.

No need to apologize for that statement. I mean, come on! We're magicians, it's not like we have feelings.

true, but seriously at least have some dang class about it

In other words, be extremely careful not to say anything that could shake things up in the slightest.

Sorry, but I don't do that Culture of Nice crap.

I wasn't merely joking around. I am quite serious about my question.

It's the best answer you're going to get. Since you chose to go after my character flaws instead of addressing my points, consider yourself lucky I even deigned to acknowledge your existence.
 
Mar 30, 2008
203
0
DC
Again, Steerpike will probably say this, but we never said anything about fame, just like we never said anything about skill or money making.

-Kevin

So true! Honestly, how many people could you find in your school who know Daniel Madison (no offense Daniel!!)

Seriously. Even some artists who we all admire are not well-known. Fame is not a question in being an artist.
 
Sep 30, 2008
310
0
34
Pittsburgh
He's within his rights to say that, because he's smarter than 98% of you. If for no other reason than by virtue of the fact that he will work for what he wants rather than claiming entitlement.



And that's the problem. What good is the word "art" when it's as generic and universal as the word "thing"?



As opposed to starting it to make pizza?



Try me. Show me your best.



No need to apologize for that statement. I mean, come on! We're magicians, it's not like we have feelings.



In other words, be extremely careful not to say anything that could shake things up in the slightest.

Sorry, but I don't do that Culture of Nice crap.



It's the best answer you're going to get. Since you chose to go after my character flaws instead of addressing my points, consider yourself lucky I even deigned to acknowledge your existence.

Wow that made my day. That gave me a nice hearty laugh
 
Feb 27, 2008
2,342
1
33
Grand prairie TX
Oh... my... god... Lock your doors and windows Steerpike. ;) In a way I agree with you yet I can't help but want to push you down a flight of stairs.

Here's the thing, I feel that anyone who is truly devoted to magic whether they're in their room practicing magic or out performing. You mention the stick art, well what about the fantastic painters who paint brilliant paintings but do it in the privacy of their room. The artists that don't sell their art in a gallery. The photographers who create beautiful images but only for themselves. Or the filmmakers who are not making a living off of their art.

You're being much to general. I've always thought magic is an art, and those who practice it with conviction and passion should be considered the artist.

If you want to debate whether magic is an art or not debate that. Don't make those who have been taught that magic is an art and they are the artists feel like ****.

Mitch

I agree with mitch more though.
I just..dont wish to fight.
 
Aug 18, 2008
680
3
I will be very interested to hear the points of the people on this site who have been granted the title artist. I am sure this thread will be getting a whole lot more attention.

My hats off to you steerpike. I don't agree with a lot of your points but I cant remember the last time this forum has been so interesting.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
NO. He is on his way to becoming an artist. He is NOT an "amateur" artist and you probably are not a "professional" artist. An artist is a career in its own. Thus, there are only professional artists. Professional=A JOB.

Personally, I think that's debatable. I believe it's fully possible to create profound artistic statements without ever making a dime off of it.

The trouble with Theory 11 is that most of the people here have nothing to say in an artistic manner. They don't have any statements to make, any points to get across, and sentiments to convey. Right now, they do it for one of two things. Either fun, which I have nothing against, or ego.

Just because you're a famous artist doesn't make people less famous not artists.

That was a stretch.

If you practice a certain art you are an artist in that art, no matter what your skill level.

Again you default to the skill level argument. Why?

I'm pretty much done arguing semantics.

It would help if you actually were arguing semantics in the first place.
 
Aug 18, 2008
680
3
So true! Honestly, how many people could you find in your school who know Daniel Madison (no offense Daniel!!)

Seriously. Even some artists who we all admire are not well-known. Fame is not a question in being an artist.

Very true, there are very few magicians out there who are known to the general public. And the few who are in most cases don't deserve the fame they are getting.
 
Sep 1, 2007
3,786
15
My hats off to you steerpike. I don't agree with a lot of your points but I cant remember the last time this forum has been so interesting.

What can I say? I was born to rock the boat. Some may sink, but we will float. Grab your coat, let's get outta here. You're my witness, I'm your mutineer.

... Okay, that was kind of a stretch.
 
May 9, 2008
603
0
Actually we were arguing semantics.... semantics about what is or isn't an artist. Pay attention.

Actually Sinful brought up skill level, and he listed criteria for who he considered artists. Again, pay attention. Do I need to list everything in your specific format so you can understand it?
 
Oct 15, 2008
826
0
Tennessee
If you want class, a forum filled with hundreds of teenagers who are having their precious titles attacked is probably not the place to go.

thats true, but i dont think this site was created so we can argue weither or not most of us are artists or not.
it was created so that all of can become artists, and learn from people who are considered "artists".
 
Aug 18, 2008
680
3
What can I say? I was born to rock the boat. Some may sink, but we will float. Grab your coat, let's get outta here. You're my witness, I'm your mutineer.

... Okay, that was kind of a stretch.

Well i can say I definitely do not agree with your taste in music, but that would be a whole other thread all together.
 
Mar 30, 2008
203
0
DC
Who keeps saying that no matter your skill level you are an artist? That's not true at all.

Again..I will use the same example. If you go pick up a violin and play 5 notes, am I a violinist?

NO!

If some heckler came up to you in the middle of your performance and said, "I know a trick!", and did some key card trick that fooled no one, and it also messed up the momentum of your routine-would you consider the heckler a magician?? He did a trick right? His skill level doesn't matter he is an artist! That's SO NOT TRUE. He is not a magician, I do not see where you are getting the logic to call him one.
 
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