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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Steerpike, Jan 1, 2009.
That is true..to an extent.
Just because you practice your art, it does not mean you are an artist.
If i pick up a violin and play five notes for 5 minutes, I am not a violinist. I am some teenager who picked up a violin and tried playing it. Even if I played the 5 notes properly for those 5 minutes, I am NOT a violinist.
There is more to being an artist than creating and practicing art. Once you reach a certain tier of proficiency you can declare yourself an artist.
If some kid took your deck of cards in the middle of a trick and did a key card trick that blew no one away, would you consider him a magician or an artist.
Let's say he went home, practiced the same trick, came back the next day, and did the SAME TRICK. Would you consider him an artist or magician then? Your answer SHOULD NOT depend on the reactions he recieved. He has taken maybe 1 hour out of his day to learn a basic trick. You on the other hand have been practicing for years. Are the two of you on the same boat? Are you both magicians/artists?
NO. He is on his way to becoming an artist. He is NOT an "amateur" artist and you probably are not a "professional" artist. An artist is a career in its own. Thus, there are only professional artists. Professional=A JOB.
An artist is ALWAYS a professional. If you think you are an artist and you are not a pro at what you do, then you are not an artist. You are on the route to becoming an artist.
Why are we not all on the artists page of Theory 11? It is because the people on that page are professionals. They are great at what they do. We are all working up to become an artist. We are not yet at that level. Some of us may be close to being a true artist-Andrei was and he was accepted into T11's tier of being an Artist.
Someone who truly practices and has truly given time into an "art form" can call themselves an artist. Uhh, hello being some teenager doing street magic for 2 years does NOT make you an artist. Take a look at Chris Kenner. HE can be classified as an artist because he has been doing magic from before most of us were born. He helped CREATE A SITE for all of us "on route to becoming an artist." Chris Kenner has created so much material that we all learn from. And to top it all off, he has great experience as a performer. HE can be classified as an artist.
As you can see, most of us are not artists. We are on route to becoming artists. LOOK at the Top of this page. Under the tab "Artists", are you there? Do you compare youself to anyone on that list? Do you think you are maybe half as good as some of the people on there? You shouldn't. If you do, you are either cocky-or you truly are good at your artform.
Steerpike has brought up a great point. Its time we learn our place. Most of us are not artists, but people on the road to becoming one.
Ok, I'll concede that it does make you less of an artist but it doesn't make you not an artist.
Sinful, and here we go again, you have a specific idea, a personal opinion about what art is, and you list specific criteria. "However, to be CONSIDERED an artist in my eye..."
IN YOUR EYE. In other peoples eyes, they might be an artist. So who is right then? Are they or are they not artists? Let's look at the definition of art, and you'll find that, just becuase it's your opinion, or that you don't consider them as not an artist doesn't mean they aren't one.
Just because you're a famous artist doesn't make people less famous not artists.
So at what point do we consider ourselves artists? When we make the artists page on Theory11? I'll laugh out loud to that one. I'm not saying they aren't all very skilled and amazing. I'm just saying they are "Theory 11 Artists". There are many artists out there not on the Theory 11 Artists page.
At what specific point did Dave and Dan make the transformation to artists? Was it before or after they learned the Jones Change?
If you practice a certain art you are an artist in that art, no matter what your skill level.
I'm pretty much done arguing semantics.
If you want class, a forum filled with hundreds of teenagers who are having their precious titles attacked is probably not the place to go.
Yeah, jaja, things are going personal... if you have a opinion, state it the best you can and that's all, if I post the comments I make, it's because Im hoping that some guys herre can spend more time thinking about the thread itself, rather than a way to bring the poster down.
I was just about to bring up the Artists page. Every single person on that page has defined themselves as an artist. If they didn't, then they wouldn't be there, and that is the reason we are not on that page.
He's within his rights to say that, because he's smarter than 98% of you. If for no other reason than by virtue of the fact that he will work for what he wants rather than claiming entitlement.
And that's the problem. What good is the word "art" when it's as generic and universal as the word "thing"?
As opposed to starting it to make pizza?
Try me. Show me your best.
No need to apologize for that statement. I mean, come on! We're magicians, it's not like we have feelings.
In other words, be extremely careful not to say anything that could shake things up in the slightest.
Sorry, but I don't do that Culture of Nice crap.
It's the best answer you're going to get. Since you chose to go after my character flaws instead of addressing my points, consider yourself lucky I even deigned to acknowledge your existence.
Again, Steerpike will probably say this, but we never said anything about fame, just like we never said anything about skill or money making.
haha and my screenname says visualartist.But I really dont care in calling myself one.lol
So true! Honestly, how many people could you find in your school who know Daniel Madison (no offense Daniel!!)
Seriously. Even some artists who we all admire are not well-known. Fame is not a question in being an artist.
Wow that made my day. That gave me a nice hearty laugh
I agree with mitch more though.
I just..dont wish to fight.
I will be very interested to hear the points of the people on this site who have been granted the title artist. I am sure this thread will be getting a whole lot more attention.
My hats off to you steerpike. I don't agree with a lot of your points but I cant remember the last time this forum has been so interesting.
Personally, I think that's debatable. I believe it's fully possible to create profound artistic statements without ever making a dime off of it.
The trouble with Theory 11 is that most of the people here have nothing to say in an artistic manner. They don't have any statements to make, any points to get across, and sentiments to convey. Right now, they do it for one of two things. Either fun, which I have nothing against, or ego.
That was a stretch.
Again you default to the skill level argument. Why?
It would help if you actually were arguing semantics in the first place.
Very true, there are very few magicians out there who are known to the general public. And the few who are in most cases don't deserve the fame they are getting.
What can I say? I was born to rock the boat. Some may sink, but we will float. Grab your coat, let's get outta here. You're my witness, I'm your mutineer.
... Okay, that was kind of a stretch.
Actually we were arguing semantics.... semantics about what is or isn't an artist. Pay attention.
Actually Sinful brought up skill level, and he listed criteria for who he considered artists. Again, pay attention. Do I need to list everything in your specific format so you can understand it?
thats true, but i dont think this site was created so we can argue weither or not most of us are artists or not.
it was created so that all of can become artists, and learn from people who are considered "artists".
Well i can say I definitely do not agree with your taste in music, but that would be a whole other thread all together.
Who keeps saying that no matter your skill level you are an artist? That's not true at all.
Again..I will use the same example. If you go pick up a violin and play 5 notes, am I a violinist?
If some heckler came up to you in the middle of your performance and said, "I know a trick!", and did some key card trick that fooled no one, and it also messed up the momentum of your routine-would you consider the heckler a magician?? He did a trick right? His skill level doesn't matter he is an artist! That's SO NOT TRUE. He is not a magician, I do not see where you are getting the logic to call him one.