Big Ass Box of Magic Question...

Discussion in 'Product Questions and Reviews' started by trikuxabi, Jul 5, 2011.

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  1. Jay,

    Just wondering - is immediately deleting my questions from your youtube channel and then blocking me an admission of wrongdoing?

    Brian
     
  2. Hey all,

    T11, thank you for allowing this thread to exist. Let's try and keep this as civil as possible.

    Now, I didn't purchase a BABOM, but I'm terribly sorry to those of you that were ripped off. Yes, I did say ripped off. For just a second, imagine that this was some other industry. Say you ordered a computer, but it didn't have the hard drive and graphics card that you payed for. Would you be mad? Yes. Would you call and complain and try and fix the situation? Yes again. While the BABOM situation is a little different, it is my opinion that every single one of you that complained to Jay is in the right.

    Now, I have a couple other bones to pick with Sankey magic.

    1. Bending the Real. From the youtube channel, many of the bends are pranks, rehashing (or in some cases exact copies) of already marketed effects, or just plain disappointing (pretending to give a parking ticket? Really??). I'm glad that many of you are as irate about this project as I am.

    2. Sankey on twitter. He posts videos, and then tweets again and again and again about his new video. It's only new once! It's not a new video 5 days later. This just irritates me, and it feels good to get it off my chest.

    This all being said, I understand the marketing that goes on in this business. However, not giving what is promised is illegal, immoral and unfair.
     
  3. I myself am a follower of this debacle, have not purchased anything from Sankey Magic, nor intend to. I would like to put forth two images for review.

    Before:

    [​IMG]


    After:
    [​IMG]

    Although I understand that Jay will protect himself and his company as much as possible, he's not answered the real questions. He's simply peppered his passive aggressive, condescending attitude with positive comments.

    Here's the issue: (Directed to Jay himself, not expecting a response). It doesn't matter how many comments you post, there is a significant number of legitimate complaints that have yet to be resolved. Your Better Business Bureau score is a clear indication of this.

    Emails are being recorded, original advertisements have been saved (as you conveniently deleted them). Using your clever marketing/promotion/advertising/double talk got you into this fiasco in the first place, it sure as (h-e-double hockey sticks) won't get you out. Fess up, deal with it, move on.

    I wish I had purchased something so I could have a real hand in this debate, but I am simply a casual observer of real people being mislead and wronged. Not cool.
     
  4. @toolnard: bending the real...don't get me started. There's a thread on magic cafe (unless it was deleted) that was truly epic. There were just so many gems in that thread and I highly advise people to check it out if they haven't. I won't discuss more about it, on this thread, just to stay on topic.

    @retrograde:
    Same here bro (sort of). I say sort of because a certain forum decided to silence my criticsm. For the most part I am observing, but it's simply wrong to screw people over on any kind of product. If I had to speculate (I am not 100% sure), Jay isn't fessing up or answering certain questions because a lawyer has advised him not to. Every message seems to be a copy and paste job: The majority like it (once again this is questionable since the BABOM page has been taken down so buyers can't know if they got screwed or not), dont listen to haters, Jay sankey is not like the competition, you are getting value, blah blah blah. To clarify, I wouldn't be surprised if Jay has responses saved on Word and all he does is change the pronouns (eg "I"; quote on quote Jay (yay more 3rd person talking); QUOTE ON QUOTE Eric (you know what I mean).

    BABOM? More like Bubba.
     
  5. Hey Fellas,
    Even though I had not purchased one of the boxes I understand the anger, frustration, etc. That is why I have allowed people to vent and talk to others who have felt cheated. I understand that "some" people enjoyed their box and got the majority of what was advertised and I also understand that "some or many" people were not happy and understandably so. I will leave the thread open as long as everyone keeps it civil and does not attack others. The minute I see this thread head south or vulgar language it will get closed. Thanks and enjoy your stay here at Theory 11.
     
  6. I didn't know we were at Hotel Theory11. ;) I kid of course Rick. All in good humor.
     
  7. Rick,

    I can't thank you ENOUGH. Theory11 has been great allowing us a voice when other magic discussion boards haven't. We will police ourselves. Please give us the opportunity to do that before you shut us down. We have done a good job of not getting vulgar, nor attacking others. This discussion has become very important to those of us who were wronged by this. It would be terrible to loose it.

    Brian
     
  8. Thank you Mr. Everhart.

    I again apologize for my actions towards the company and to the community as a whole. Now I have to get my items the hard way; what used to be the inventory checklist has become my bucket list and I'll make it a life's quest to get the items one by one some way or another. But not only that, I have tarnished my own name and showed the world just how despicable my character could be.

    Please note though that I, like Retrograde87, toolnard, and SilentAgain was also technically an observer since I never got (and never will get) my box. However, when granted the slightest illusion of a sense of control yesterday, I got giddy, arrogant, greedy, and reckless. And not to mention... the collective anger absorbed from the forums that I was constantly exposed to.

    I think I may be sociopathic (or something lesser as it is clear I am capable of showing remorse). If a situation heads south, the details are burned into my memory, accumulating like so much clutter and grime in a bedroom. And things like this never fail to escape my attention, but not only that, it is a slap to the face in this community to have a well-respected name tarnish himself so deeply. It feels like so many ants crawling under my skin eating me alive. I suspect that if this story made it to the Genii or Magic magazines there would be a lot of heat upon him and his fanbase would be seriously eroded. On top of it all, at least from what I've heard he publicly denies the allegations made against him, even though apparently people are pressing charges against him. I won't be surprised if the cops come knocking at his door anytime soon. Combining these factors makes an explosive reaction on my part and because of this I lost my golden opportunities and my leverages. It was wrong for me to react in such a fashion and now I am experiencing firsthand the Wiccan Rule of Three in full force.

    It may sound like I have a strong sense of right and wrong, and that I am probably the only one courageous enough to flaunt it in the face of the faceless corporation that is Sankey Magic. As razemagic later called me on the phone about it, I was quite passionate about the cause and the wrongs dealt on the community and I definitely showed it in this round of the game. The foolish belief that one man can make a difference (alone that is) has led to the fall of many, including myself. The truth is quite far from that. In fact, and please excuse me for what I have to say, I actually contemplated full-blown piracy as a solution to the problem. My reasoning was that if the wronged ones should have received the promised DVD in question in the first place, surely it would be okay to one to just give what they want for free on the Internet. No other person has ever elicited such a retributive attitude from me, not even during the Justin Miller fiasco a year back. I wish I could take back what happened but now I must settle for cutting my losses and walking away from this.

    The least I could say about this is that I am most disappointed with the betrayal that this company has incurred among us all as well as his blatantly unconcerned (you might even use the word, pardon my French, sociopathic) attitude to the situation. From this incident we've learned one thing. That it is of utmost importance to have a good sense of customer service, a lesson I am beginning to learn by working minimum wage at Goodwill. If you are not able to hold on to that minimum standard, then you are better off not selling anything at all.

    Thank you for understanding,
    Sean Skyhawk
     
  9. #169 Seanhawk23, Aug 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2011

    Cue Pitbull's "Hotel Room Service" song :D
     
  10. Hello Sean,

    I will keep this concise. I can truly say it's nice to read your post as it comes straight from your heart. To add my 2 cents, it's better to admit when we're wrong. I mean why layer dishonesty with more lies? You're going to get exposed sooner or later. I think Jay could have prevented this fiasco if he kept the babom page on and addressed customer complaints from the get go.

    Your last paragraph pretty much wrapped everything up nicely, ESPECIALLY the last sentence. Good luck working minimum wage at goodwill. Sincerely,

    --SilentAgain

     
  11. I had a "not so great" experience with his Customer Support Service over a year ago when I got 2nd place in his "What I Learned From Jay" Contest. 2nd Place winner (me) got to choose $100 worth of magic, and get it completely free.

    I piled my cart with stuff I wanted, totaling up to 100 bucks. I placed the order. I waited for 3 weeks, and nothing. I emailed customer support and asked them for a tracking number. "Eric" emailed me back and did not place a tracking number in his response. Instead, he said he would mail me a whole NEW package containing everything I placed an order for. Didn't give me tracking.

    3 weeks goes by again and I STILL haven't received anything. Kind of weird thinking my package would get lost or stolen TWICE while in transit, but that has never happened when I ordered from him in the past. I emailed again asking what the deal was, and that I wanted tracking. Still didn't receive any tracking info. It took about a week before "Eric" emailed me back and said that he would send ANOTHER package containing everything I ordered, and Jay would throw in an additional $100 worth of material in for the long wait.

    About a month later, I finally receive a big ass bubble mailer packed with magic from Sankey Magic. Looks like they sent it after all. And you know what was funny about this one? I didn't receive tracking information for it...again. I found that some of the cases were broken and DVDs were dislodged. Even though I got free material, I was rather disappointed that I waited OVER 2 MONTHS to find broken cases and dislodged DVDs. Hell, there could have been a couple of DVDs break and I would have had to wait a longer time to get new ones...

    I was also surprised to see why Jay didn't put all of that in a BOX where it would be safe. Putting THAT much stuff in a bubble mailer is insane and idiotic. EASILY damageable and fragile. Only a thin layer of Bubble Wrap is protecting $200 worth of stuff here...

    Reading this thread reminded me why I won't be ordering from Sankey again. I was a huge fan when I started out in magic, but now he's changed for the worse, and it sucks to see that ACTUALLY happen. Money does terrible things to people. :(

    Now let me rant on his "new" SLYDER gimmick. This gimmick is explained in minor detail in his "Bending the Real" DVD, which I was unfortunately hooked into buying. It's called Remote Control. He doesn't even credit anyone (as far as I remember) on that DVD cause he aimed it at newbies to his site and his YouTube channel. It's like he's making new guys to the field think HE is the creator of this principle that was published LONG ago (I think it was Anneman? Not so sure on this one). It was a simple gimmick that anyone could make at home, and it was cheap too.

    Now I find a new effect being released called SLYDER via ads in his newsletter. He states in the ads that it's a gimmick that looks like something you pull from your desk drawer. The same thing was said on his Bending the Real DVD. I begin to think that he's taking one thing from his BTR DVD and making it into a "one trick pony" again. BTR costs $35, SLYDER is costing $40. WTF?!

    One of the things you find on BTR is being sold separately for $40. Insane! And he's pricing it at $40 cause it's a "specially manufactured paperclip from FLATTENED 16 guage wire and has TWO settings". He makes it sound great right? Hell, I could make that thing myself by flattening a regular paperclip. Why the hell would I pay $40 for something that was on a multi-trick DVD that was priced at $35 anyways? This is ridiculous.

    NOW he starts saying this is an old principle that was "impractical" and "could hardly be done" until JAY SANKEY came up with a way to make it TOTALLY practical. Still, he doesn't say who came up with the principle. What makes me MORE upset about this fiasco is that Jay pulled off the gimmick PERFECTLY FINE with a normal paperclip. It was completely practical on the BTR DVD, but now he's saying it isn't? Come on Jay, be honest here for once. STOP misleading new customers!

    I feel sorry for whoever pre-ordered Slyder. If you already have BTR and are regretting it, you already have SLYDER at your fingertips. I guess that is a "light at the end of the tunnel". Save your $40 bucks. And if you don't have either BTR or preordered SLYDER, do some research and find the original print of this principle. Save yourself the money.

    This is getting ridiculous. I hope this post informed you more about his horrible Customer Service and his SLYDER Scam. This has got me pretty upset for everyone that has to deal with him and his staff. I feel for you tremendously.

    Keep in mind what I just said above does not reflect the views of t11 in any way, just my own personal opinion.

    Sankey Magic will DEF not be getting any more business from me. Peace SM!
     
  12. ^ owned. Just owned. /thread.
     
  13. LOVE LOVE LOVE this post. It's remarkable how true this is, i thought i was the only one that noticed all of this. I know that magicians get confused for scam artists a lots. But i feel like Sankey has fooled himself into thinking he is a magician when in reality he takes other peoples principles and does it with different objects and stuff like that. He calls it "innovative thinking" i call it trash.

    -Charlie Tall
     
  14. Hi Charlie.

    I think your post may be taking it too far. Although he is doing some unprofessional things at this point, when we take it to the point of calling his work trash, we go from being slightly agitated to partaking in slander. Let's keep it light around here. Have a good one.

    J.Slade
     
  15. Dont worry guys,

    I am sure Jay will come in this thread soon and post some fantastic glowing reviews which will not fix any issues at all.

    - Matt Tarrant

    That will fix it. Right guys? Right?

    Lost any business from me from this thread - AND his horrendous replies.
     
  16. Ha ha. Good morning boys. I woke up to see that you guys actually got my hotel sarcasm, "Thanks and enjoy your stay here at Theory11."

    Wow..Casey...didn't realize you had some issues with the customer service and Slyder as well. It has been a long time since I've ordered anything from Jay and I do not plan on it ever again.
     
  17. ROFL!!! 10char

     
  18. #178 razemagic, Aug 4, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2011
    Guess who got a personal note from Jay this morning...

    Here's my story from the beginning.

    After emailing and getting nowhere with Eric, I sent Jay a note on Facebook letting him know I was frustrated and disappointed with his customer service.

    On July 16, I received this response:
    Jay Sankey 7:26pm Jul 16
    So sorry to hear this. What can we do to help? Please send me an email directly at jay@sankeymagic.com Thanks!

    I sent him this long and detailed email:

    Thank you for taking the time to review my concern. In re-reading my note to you, I realize it was a bit mellow-dramatic. However, the core of the issue remains – my box did not contain what was promised. After several unproductive emails with Eric, I was getting ready to write a letter to the Consumer Protection Branch in Toronto and the Better Business Bureau. I appreciate your willingness to hear the issue.

    My box is missing 12 of the 36 items listed on the product page when I purchased the box. It included 3 of the 4 bonus items. The box also had 4 DVDs that were not listed on the original list (replacements).

    In corresponding online with other buyers, I discovered that I only received 3 sheets of “Reconstruction” instead of 6 that others received.

    The total retail value of the 12 missing items is $225, according to the original product description.
    - The 4 replacement items have a retail value of $130 for a difference of $95.
    - The letter in my box stated I was one of the first 125 to order. Based on the original product description from the website, I should have received all 36 items.

    Furthermore, the product description for the additional 100 boxes stated, “Your 'BIG ASS BOX' will still include AT LEAST 28 of the original 36 products featured on Jay's popular YouTube videos! And we'll replace the other items with products of EQUAL or GREATER VALUE.”

    Again, my box (one of the original 125) only had 24 of the items. The replacement items I received were not of equal or greater value.

    When I contacted Eric at customer service, asking about the missing items, I was offered a credit:

    (We offer you) “the opportunity to EXCHANGE your big box for a handful of other
    products (all at the regular retail pricing of course.) But in that case, you would have to pay for shipping the box back to us as well as the shipping of the exchanged order.”

    Doing this would not provide me with the missing items. I would not be reimbursed the $50 original shipping cost. I would have to pay for returning the box and be responsible for paying shipping of any replacement items. I would receive a credit for $129, which would probably get me 4-5 items.

    To this offer, I thought, “Why on Earth would I want to do any of that?” I just wanted the few remaining items that were promised—and that were missing.

    I let Eric know that I felt that the sale of the box was a bait-and-switch, and the exchange proposal was a “cop out” and said that he must think I’m an idiot. Then very frustrated, I asked for a complete refund that included all shipping costs. He replied stating that I was rude and rescinded the offer.

    The larger concern is, not just my issue, but the others who have also displayed their frustration with their own boxes. There have a couple of discussions posted on the Theory11 and Magic Café discussion boards. Here are the links if you would like to read them.
    http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=424879&forum=111&29&start=0#28
    http://forums.theory11.com/showthread.php?33500-Big-Ass-Box-of-Magic-Question...

    You will see that I have contributed to these discussions under the name RazeMagic.

    As already stated, I would simply like the items that were promised in the original product description. I would even be happy with the items I’ve starred.

    I am missing:
    • Holy Stretch*
    • Blockbuster*
    • International*
    • 99*
    • Killer Key*
    • Pandora's Box*
    • Sleight of Hand Secrets with Coins
    • Final Fusion (refill)
    • Juicier Fruit
    • Shift
    • Razor's Edge coin
    • Tranz4mr

    Total retail value: $225

    Also missing (as an FYI):
    • Reconstruction: only 3 sheets while others received 6
    • Supernatural (Bonus item)*

    Instead I received the following replacements:
    • Pulp Fiction
    • Sankey Skutt Sessions
    • Hijacked
    • Sankey Best of Coin Magic
    Total retail value: $130

    For full reference, this is what my box contained: Dough, That can’t be good, twister, amazing magic vol 1 and 2, sleight hand cards, earplugs, revol. Coin magic, extremely ambitious, best street magic, hellbent, foreign exchange, vanishink, wrap it up, insider (10 envelopes), untorn (2 boxes, 1 sheet labels), reconstruction (3 sheets), m3ntal astral projection, just imagine, best mentalism, invisible, inseparable, best newsletter, lecture notes, holiday magic, 5 strong effects.

    I have included all my correspondence with Eric below.

    I very much enjoy your magic and your creativity. Thank you for taking the time to read my concern.

    Regards,

    Brian

    ---------------------------

    No response. I sent a couple follow up emails over the past couple weeks. Still no response.

    So in response to his post on this board yesterday, I posted a list of questions and facts I asked him to address. I also emailed the note to him and posted it to his sankeymagic youtube wall. To no surprise, the note on the youtube channel was deleted.

    So I left this on his BTR youtube page:
    “Jay,
    Just wondering - is immediately deleting my questions from your youtube channel and then blocking me an admission of wrongdoing? Be a man and respond to us. ”

    I wouldn’t normally say something like “be a man”, but I was hoping it might elicit a response. AND IT DID.

    I received this message on Facebook this morning:

    “Jay Sankey

    I'm not trying to avoid you. But if you think that sending me rude emails or messages with phrases 'be a man' DESERVE a reply, you are wrong. And if you think you can just suddenly find your 'polite and respectful voice' and I'm going to forget your rude behavior. You're wrong again. Feel free to post whatever rude stuff you want on line, but at least accept the fact that when you bash people, they may not want to 'stay in touch.' “

    My response to him:

    “Brian Hoffman
    You've ignored all my attempts to contact you up until this point. Just trying to get a response from you. You are still ignoring the questions and facts.”

    I think it went the other way around, from "polite and respectful" to "rude".

    At least I have an acknowledgement that he is aware of my communications with him. If he’s not avoiding me, what is he doing?

    Brian
     

  19. I'm picturing the 2 settings - you stretch the paperclip so the gap is a little wider, or something like that.... the two settings.... hilarious.

    I'm not surprised by your story... not surprised one bit.
     
  20. In defense of- still

    Glad your still here Master Steep. I see you and your friend's collective rage at Sankey has not subsided. I was happy to see the man himself posted on this thread. Correct me if I am wrong, but you have still not shared with us the list of contents in your BABOM that you were so dissatisfied with. You told me I should deduce the answer myself by seeing what wasn't in your list. I followed the promotion very closely from the very beginning and as I recall, the 36 items you keep insisting are rightfully yours (so much so that you are talking about pursuing litigation) were not necessarily guaranteed to be in every box. I don't recall the exact wording in the multiple promotional videos and emails, but I'm pretty certain that Jay was always showing what was going to be in the boxes as a whole- not necessarily every box. If I had though for one minute that I was going to get everything in the box, I would have been a teensy bit disappointed that I only got $600 worth instead of $800 worth (for 129) but for some reason, I knew there was a bit of chance in this promotion which in my opinion added to the fun. I could split hairs and make my case even stronger but I know it won't change your opinion or actions. But why would a company leave promotional marketing on the internet for a product that is not nor ever will be available?

    @silent again- regarding your comments on Slyder and speculation (and likely desire) that Jay is failing, some thoughts- Wouldn't it make the most sense for Jay to take full advantage of the promotional hype he has created for this product during its unveiling?- I mean he did invent the thing pretty much.... and also, did it occur to you that these devices aren't shooting out of a machine in China and production in relation to demand might necessitate the need to control the release of this product?

    @razemagic- after all that has been said about Jay, do you honestly think he's going to succumb to your demands about posting the videos? Should Jays' videos been more like - Boxes 1-23 will contain this and that, 24-32 will have this, this, and not that, box 33-41 will not have this, but it will have that.....do you see my point?
    The fact that there was some chance in this promotion was reflected in the price!

    @those who don't get email responses- don't forget that a company has the right to choose its customers as much as you have a right to choose the company. Perhaps them not responding is a message in of itself.
    The forum you guys have set up on facebook (that you kicked me out of) specifically to bash Jay and exclude those who defend him is another similar example except that yours is vindictive and Jay's is economical.
     
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