Controversy...

[SilkenRazors]

I use whatever. I have bought about a million decks of cards, and people always give me decks of cards as gifts. But as for the post...

Custom look cards are okay to perform with. I've only had a couple of people say the deck is marked or a trick deck. I just let them look at them if they want... I also have a very visual deck switch that I do and switch to Bikes... then ask if they'd rather me use those. Which I guess could also scream "magic cards" since they came out of nowhere. But if they want to believe the trick was done with trick cards, I let them.. keeps them from really thinking about the effect and begging to know how I did it... and in the back of their mind, they don't KNOW and the know it.

 

[UnholyGodn]

I'm more suspicious of normal cards being gaffed, if I havent seen a deck before it's more likely that its unique and that its hard to find gaffs for. Where as common decks like Bicycles often come with gaffs in the box!

 

[AceGhatge]

I'm more suspicious of normal cards being gaffed, if I havent seen a deck before it's more likely that its unique and that its hard to find gaffs for. Where as common decks like Bicycles often come with gaffs in the box!

Interesting point complimenting my second post there bud!

 

[Dave]

Well T11 does have the guardian decks there's a start, but as for more who knows, T11 has just began there massive journey in the magic community. So whether they do or not will have to wait and see.

Hayden.

Agreed........

 

[TRUNDY]

Here's my personal experience:

If spectators are waving off your effects as the work of a trick deck, it's your fault and not the deck's. I know people don't like hearing that. Too bad. The truth isn't always easy to take.

I've been performing consistently with Ghosts for a year and only twice have I been accused of using trick cards. People forget that it's about framing. If using custom cards is natural for you, the spectators will be more inclined to accept that there's nothing out of the ordinary.

This is exactly how I feel ... I have not had one person tell me the deck was a "trick" deck ... Other than 1 guy at work who's theory is that any deck of cards used for any magic effect is gimmicked... Then I use his deck and he thinks I switched it , then I have him sign one of his cards ....Then he shuts up and starts new conspiracy theories ....

Bottom line is that I think in my opinion , it is all about the presentation ... I try to have the spectators handle the cards as much as possible , and to be as fair as I can..

I can not speak for the "PROS" around here ...but for me , I use a different type of deck everytime I leave the house ..Whatever mood hits me ...

 

[Sean.Cinco]

Quite honestly, hardly anyone has accused me of using a trick deck whether it be a regular bike deck, tallys, ghosts, black tigers, whatever. If you treat them like a normal deck, then your spectators will treat them like a normal deck.

 

[Guardian452]

if they make more custom decks

it further proves that this isnt theory11

its Ellusionist 2.0

 

[Cain]

For me, the logic goes like this: If you pull out a strange locked box with tubes and crap sticking out of it and then make a dove appear out of it, they might assume that there was something gimmicked about the box. The cards play differently, however, because your audience knows what cards are. They've seen different kinds of playing cards before and they immediately file your new deck into that same category in their mind. They don't do magic, so other than marking cards, they're not really going to have much of an idea as to how you could possibly gimmick a deck of cards.

As far as it goes, this is probably one of the more compelling rationalizations I have heard in a long while. The trouble is that magicians are not supposed to use special, or "professional," equipment. It detracts from the illusion right off the bat. Moreover, nearly everyone recognizes the strength of magic with ordinary objects -- and not just because everyday things give the hobbyist a pretext to perform, but because the illusion seems much fairer, frustrating rational explanation. People are naturally suspicious of "professional equipment," and for good reason. "What, magic boy needs his special props? Ha, you're not a real a magician!" Of course I cannot do "real" magic, but there's no sense erecting another barrier. The analogy is also flawed in that the professional equipment you're comparing is obviously prohibitively expensive for the passing amateur whereas a deck of playing cards is not. Maybe a pack of Jerry's Nuggets is, but then, regular people cannot fathom the price of those.

A lot of people recognize the Bicycle brand of playing cards; they're aware these things are mass produced, and many make the connection that the cards I am using might as well be the cards stuffed into their home cabinet atop the Scrabble board.

If I could bracket out audience concerns, and look at all things equal, then yes, I probably prefer the look and feel of these cards (though the latter is probably purely psychological). But not all things are equal: I am price-sensitive. Twelve packs of Bikes (with the variety of blue and red) can be purchased for under 15 dollars. So that's my own over-riding personal consideration.

I'm more suspicious of normal cards being gaffed, if I havent seen a deck before it's more likely that its unique and that its hard to find gaffs for. Where as common decks like Bicycles often come with gaffs in the box!

That's because you're thinking like a magician rather than a layperson.

What I want to know is why these custom cards are NOT subtly gaffed more often. I figure I AM paying for a gaffed deck. Do Guardians feature a secret one-way design on the back? Why not mark the cards, or the aces? What about the inclusion of a dupe? These potential pluses carry costs: if a dupe is included, then maybe it's more difficult to crack open a new pack in front of a spectator (or maybe not! They'll never suspect you of ringing in a special card). Why mark cards when people will complain about having their own system, or wanting to use their own scratch marks (of course, that would seem difficult given these have a custom back design). I cannot think of a good reason for why the cards should NOT (secretly) be one-way. Maybe they are, I haven't used'em or read a whole lot about'em.

 

[Aaron Shields]

Pulling out a custom deck is no less odd than pulling out half and silver dollars. They're interesting, many people have never seen them.

An audience attributing the magic to a "trick deck" has more to do with them attempting to come up with an explanatory framework for what they are seeing than the deck itself. They didn't see you do anything, yet something inexplicable happened. If it wasn't you, then it must be the cards. It's a logical conclusion, especially when trick decks are one of the more popular images laypeople have of magicians' methods.

The single most effective technique I've found to dispel the notion of trick cards, is to let people handle the deck at some point early on in your performance. You effectively cancel out the notion of the trick deck before they even get to come up with it themselves.

 

[The Dark Angel]

if they make more custom decks

it further proves that this isnt theory11

its Ellusionist 2.0

Yes, because if you make custom decks, you MUST be connected to Ellusionist.

 

[Ray]

if you want to use cards with sailboats and pinkish purplish dragons and smiley faces on them.... go for it (coming soon, exclusively at theory11)

I dare you to publish them

 

[baskitboy5]

I think that it depends on the specs. I really only use custom decs for people whom I have established my skills as a magician. Once they know that I really do know what I am doing and I am not just someone who bought one trick deck, then I think they trust more that I may have cards that feel better or just look better. I prefer not to use them with people who are already skeptical of me. Just my opinion. BTW the guardians look gorgous.
Adam

 

[clllllust]

The cards do not make the performance. If people are thinking about what cards you are using and not what you are doing, this may be a flaw in the focus of your performance, not the deck. I do agree that Bikes are accepted by everyone, but to me it is about style and being different. The Guardians look incredible and handle beautifully-- I've used them non-stop since I got my hands on one of them. But at the end of the day, it's just a personal preference: if you want to use cards with sailboats and pinkish purplish dragons and smiley faces on them.... go for it (coming soon, exclusively at theory11).

Chris Kenner

Hahaha, I can't wait, finally a site for the pinkish purplish dragon enthusiasts!!! Well, I usually started my performance by doing some XCM and say these cards are so nice they're custom ya da ya da ya da. But, there's always the few who nit-pick and think they're trick after they examine them...it's life.

-RA69

 

[waynehouchin]

thats a stupid statement

this website REEK ellusionist ALL OVER IT

john worked/ works at ellusionist, and is the CEO of T11

notice the forum have the same functions, with the search and etc. (not meaning the functions, meaning how it works and looks)

all the little tabs are from ellusionist

the same way they market, edit and sell their videos is ellusionist

this site is ellusionist 2.0

Hello. I would like to address a few of your points - You are correct, JB did work for E & he helped to build it into what it is today. The forums are a standard forum setup - it's not just T11 & E that have those features, the majority of all forums available have the same features. As far as the video/marketing goes. Dana & I helped develop the style & look of the E videos as well as how they are marketed. Dana & I personally produced Stigmata, Silver Dream, Army of 52, Fallen, Kaos, Indecent, Fraud, Warning & Ultragaff - as well as shot & directed Slink, Bent, Loops & Box Monster... that's a pretty big list. You don't have to take my word for it - look at the credits of any of those DVD's. We developed that style & we are now taking our style to a new level.

Unless you want to accuse us of ripping off ourselves... I personally think your argument is pretty weak.

 

[The Dark Angel]

You just got OWNED by Wayne Houchin.

 

[onyxtheodg]

Even when I use........

standard Bycicle Rider Backs, I have been accused several times of using "trick decks", even though in reality most of us don't use trick decks as often as normal decks.

 

[Lionsden123]

Hello. I would like to address a few of your points - You are correct, JB did work for E & he helped to build it into what it is today. The forums are a standard forum setup - it's not just T11 & E that have those features, the majority of all forums available have the same features. As far as the video/marketing goes. Dana & I developed the style & look of the E videos as well as how they are marketed. Dana & I personally produced Stigmata, Silver Dream, Army of 52, Fallen, Kaos, Indecent, Fraud, Warning & Ultragaff - as well as shot & directed Slink, Bent, Loops & Box Monster... that's a pretty big list. You don't have to take my word for it - look at the credits of any of those DVD's. We developed that style & we are now taking our style to a new level.

Unless you want to accuse us of ripping off ourselves... I personally think your argument is pretty weak.

I aggree wayne, (Nice mean and... I dunno, nice argument though.) and what'd be wrong if it was E 2.0? Why does it seem everyone here hates E? And I don't mean the people working here, I mean forum people (Though I do recognize a TON of forum names from E, not just mine.)

As to the question, I use ghosts without fail, though I plan on using guardians now. (Quick question on those, do they use standard bike finish? Or special like ghosts?)
I have not ONCE had anyone say trick cards, and I know for a fact ghosts look more "tricky" then guardians. (Atleast I think so.)

So no, cards do not make the performance, they add ambiance.
Here's a corny me example thing.
If you're... uhh... doing something with your girlfriend, (Don't know the average age of people here ) it doesn't matter if you have scented candles, it's nice, and helps, and if you do something wrong she could say "Are you using candles to get some?" but if you present it right, it just adds to the beauty of what you're doing.

My two cents, and a wierdo example to boot!

Thanks,
Evan

 

[The Dark Angel]

I aggree wayne, (Nice mean and... I dunno, nice argument though.) and what'd be wrong if it was E 2.0? Why does it seem everyone here hates E? And I don't mean the people working here, I mean forum people (Though I do recognize a TON of forum names from E, not just mine.)

As to the question, I use ghosts without fail, though I plan on using guardians now. (Quick question on those, do they use standard bike finish? Or special like ghosts?)
I have not ONCE had anyone say trick cards, and I know for a fact ghosts look more "tricky" then guardians. (Atleast I think so.)

So no, cards do not make the performance, they add ambiance.
Here's a corny me example thing.
If you're... uhh... doing something with your girlfriend, (Don't know the average age of people here ) it doesn't matter if you have scented candles, it's nice, and helps, and if you do something wrong she could say "Are you using candles to get some?" but if you present it right, it just adds to the beauty of what you're doing.

My two cents, and a wierdo example to boot!

Thanks,
Evan

That post was more awkward than the time I walked in on my parents doing it.

 

[Lionsden123]

That post was more awkward than the time I walked in on my parents doing it.

Lmfao, anyone seen the that 70s show where that happened to eric? It's never happened to me (thank god) but that would be wierd!

And I know it's awkward, just first thing that came to mind!

Thanks,
Evan

 

[Miles_of_Magic]

I love custom decks. My all time favs are red Master's. Over the last 9 months all of my decks have either Budweiser, or Bud lite on them. That is only becuase I am being paid by Bud to use their cards for their promotions. On a typical gig for me I am using Master's or standard red bikes.
I have a few boxes of ghosts and tigers, and I have the new gaurdians on the way. I trust I will love them as much as any other custom deck.
One of the things I do when I am working is to have the spec open up the new deck. I do this for two reasons. The first is : most people (laypeople) have a hard time opening a new deck of cards and it offers me a chance to make a joke about it and start to build a relationship with my specs that establishes me as an entertainer. The second reason is to establish that they are "regular" cards. This has worked well for me for many years now. I hope it works for you too!

Curtis "Miles of Magic"