Luke Jermay - Buyer Beware

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by stoneface, Aug 9, 2010.

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  1. I would like to place a prediction before this topic becomes locked and forgotten about.

    Luke will fail to give a satisfactory response to any of the issues raised. I also see the possibility of Luke utilizing a "sob response."

    My offer stands to anyone seriously considering doing business with this individual. Contact me or do some research on his past dealings.

    I'm done with this thread.
     
  2. If this is true then LJ just pulled a MAJOR dick move
     
  3. Sometimes it's nice to have a bit of faith in someone, and give them the benefit of the doubt. Life happens, and sometimes it's more important than the internet, business, or even magic (*insert gasp). How about, instead of dishing out all the judgmental statements, just wait until the issues are resolved. Gossip is extremely hurtful. This thread is full of it. Don't judge until you know the facts, and in this situation the facts are unknown. All we know is that Luke is planning to make it right, and that's a good thing.
     
  4. Amen to that. I think that we should all wait and see what happens. Even if you buy Colorblind, you know it is going to get to you because Theory11 produced and is selling the dang thing like the rest of their products! If you're worried about supporting Jermay, only PART of the proceeds from the sales of Colorblind make it to Jermay, not the whole price. Sure you all may think Luke is "screwed up", but maybe there are emotional reasons behind why he "scammed" people to get money. Maybe his family screwed him over out of his money and needed some fast? I don't know, and neither do you guys except for him. So PLEASE wait until he responds instead of bickering like little babies. Not the point of the forums.

    -Casey
     
  5. Ok, we received a response. He said he will make everything right. I think we need to respect that at this point, and give him the benefit of the doublt. If the "sob story" is true, perhaps we should show a little empathy and compassion. Yes I realize that many of you did not receive your goods in a timely manner, and you're right to be upset, because without this intervention from JB, there may have been no resolution. However that's not the case. JB helped. Things will get resolved.
     
  6. I'd be careful who your calling babies here. These people have honest concerns and your hero worship aside luke has had a past history of questionable problems with his products or services. You shouldn't be so quick to pay him lip service as uch as we shouldn't be so fast to damn him with only half info
     
  7. #87 ThisTwoGoesTo22, Aug 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2010
    Luke has been given the benefit of the doubt countless times in the past, yet fails to clean up his act. I had to threaten to take him to court to get action from him.

    I want to post a few facts to prove a point.

    On 2/24/07 I received this email from Luke.

    Hello all.

    A quick email to remind you that the Ink Blot
    manuscript is nearing completion I have also just
    finished a special version of the tossed out deck.
    This version is available as a limited edition as of
    now.

    The tossed out deck is covered in detail in a PDF
    detailing how to create the special deck, which should
    take around an hour of your time as a one of
    preparation. This is the version of the effect that I
    use in my shows and to me answers many of the problems
    I faced with the standard tossed out deck.

    The PDF covers the construction of the deck,
    alternative options, scripting, additional climax’s
    and the full method and staging. The PDF is fully
    photo illustrated and comes with a special print out
    prop included.

    This is limited to only 25 copies and is priced at
    $120.


    The PDF file will be emailed directly to your inbox.

    Here is an over view of the effect:

    A deck of cards is shown to be different and given a
    quick mix by the performer.

    The performer then spreads the deck between his hands
    and has two people think of cards they see from the
    spread deck.

    The deck is the squared and riffled by the performer
    asking a spectator to call stop. The spectator is
    asked to remember this card.

    This is repeated with another spectator who also
    remembers the card stopped on.

    The performer now removes a rubber band and wraps it
    around the deck. The deck is now thrown to four
    spectators in the audience who are asked to peek at
    cards.

    The performer reveals the cards starting with the two
    spectators who thought of cards from a spread deck.

    Next the performer names the cards thought of by the
    two spectators from the riffled deck and finally the
    performer has the remaining spectators stand.

    Dramatically the performer calls the name of four
    cards asking each person to sit if he correctly named
    their card. All four spectators sit.

    The deck is given to a spectator as a gift.

    To order this PDF manuscript please send $100 to the
    following email address using pay pal:

    OUTSANEL2LU@YAHOO.COM

    Many thanks and look forward to hearing from you,

    L.


    Luke offers the ETOD for $120. Limited to 25 copies.


    on 4/15/08 Jermay sent this e-mail

    The Amazing Memory Test Manuscript is now done to only
    2 copies remaining for sale.


    Also the following items are now down to the final few
    copies: The Inkblot Manuscript, Words, Three Cheers
    For The Underrated and The Corinda Notes Step One.

    Here is the information on the memory test in case you
    missed it:

    The Amazing Memory Test – Jermay on a classic.

    The Amazing Memory Test has proven an enduring classic
    and is one of Jermay’s favourite anywhere, anytime
    routines. In this manuscript Jermay details his
    personal method for the classic effect and addressed
    many of the problems he feels exists within the
    classic routine.

    Jermay explains his intentions with this limited
    edition release of 20 copies in the introduction to
    this manuscript:


    “In ‘Step Three – Mental Systems’ of the seminal work
    ‘Thirteen Steps To Mentalism’ written by the legendary
    Corinda, he clearly states the value he placed up
    memory systems:

    “To the mentalist, Memory Systems are indispensable;
    they are part of his equipment and the means whereby
    he can be called upon to perform at any time – and
    give an impressive demonstration. They are the best
    type of equipment you can have, as there is nothing to
    carry and no apparatus to prepare. The skill lies in
    the training of the mind, in conditioning the mind to
    operate to maximum advantage, and once trained, that
    skill remains with you for life, ever ready to be
    applied”

    Later in the same chapter of the book Cordina expands
    this ethos to ‘The Amazing Memory Test’ that is
    detailed in his lesson:

    “This is probably the most popular application of the
    memory system in use today. It has every
    qualification you could hope for as a mentalist; no
    props to carry, do it anywhere, on stage, cabaret, the
    drawing room office or walking down the high road. It
    can be performed before any size audience – one or two
    – or thousands; it is positively sure to work, is easy
    to learn and last, and most important of all, it has a
    terrific effect on the audience. What more could you
    want?”

    Corinda mentions that at the time of his writing ‘The
    Amazing Memory Test’ was the ‘most popular’
    application of the mental system laid fourth. In the
    years past since his writing I think it would be fair
    to say that this routine has fallen out of popular
    performance. I feel this may be due to the following
    reasons:
    1. The routine is often long and slow – modern
    audiences simply do not posses the same attention span
    that was afforded to Corinda at the time of his
    writing

    2. Many performers feel the routine is driven by the
    performers ego - and thus can potentially appear as a
    routine that is more about the performer ‘showing off’
    than entertaining his audience.

    3. Mentalism literature is rather sparse lacking
    additions and advice on the routine – unlike many of
    the effects and plots detailed within ‘13 Steps To
    Mentalism’ the ‘Amazing Memory Test’ has seen little
    published variations or performance advice, since its
    publication in the book. While the routine does back
    much further than the book I would suggest that
    Corinda was responsible in introducing the routine to
    many mentalists.

    While the above are worthy of consideration they are
    points and problems that are both easy to solve with
    presentational hooks and strong understanding of the
    routine. With no props to carry, a strong and
    entertaining theme and it ease in operation I would
    like to challenge you with the same question
    originally posed by Corinda – what more could you
    want?

    Corinda despite his clear affection for the routine
    covers both the presentation and the method in the
    space of some two and a half pages. While I certainly
    am not suggesting that this work is of higher value
    than that of the classic Cordina text I do feel that a
    heftier examination and discussion of the routine is
    called for in order to successfully present it to
    today’s audiences. The information covered in this
    manuscript is purely developed through thinking about
    and applying my theories and lessons taught in
    performance to the routine. I hope this real world
    approach to the routine may instil more confidence in
    the routine than that of a two and a half page write
    up. I hope you enjoy my treatment of this classic
    routine.

    I have a personal soft spot for effects that use
    ‘super-memory’ as a theme or premise. I have
    published several such routines ranging from card
    effects to book test - however of all the routines I
    have published featuring this presentational hook I
    feel the following is the strongest. This is a
    routine that has served me well in performance over
    the years and I have made numerous changes to the
    script that is presented over time. I would urge you
    to use the script contained within this manuscript as
    a template or structure of sorts however I can not
    stress how important it is that you create your own
    script that suits you by doing this you will make the
    routine your own and have something very special on
    your hands. I know I for one would rather be the best
    ‘me’ rather than a second rate ‘someone else’ and I
    hope this is understood in relation to my performance
    script. With these ideas in mind let us move onto the
    bulk of the manuscript in which we will deal with each
    of the points outlined above and pull everything
    together with a full performance script and method.”

    The Amazing Memory Test PDF manuscript is limited to
    15 copies and is priced at $200
    the manuscript is on a
    pre-order status and will be sent to your inbox on
    Friday the 28th of March. All orders made before
    this date are priced at a special pre-order price of
    $150. Payment is accepted via www.paypal.com to
    luke_jermay@yahoo.com


    Jermay offers the amazing memory test for $200 limited to either 15 or 20 copies (he isn't clear)


    These manuscripts were sold, at an extremely high premium, in part due to their limited nature.

    Jermay has since sold the rights of these manuscripts to Chris Wasshuber. Chris now offers these "limited" releases in an unlimited fashion.

    Tho original owners were lied to and stolen from.

    This is just two examples from the set, all of wich were limited, that were sold to Chris and are now available unlimited and dirt cheap.
     
  8. Just an expression man, chill. I know people have been cheated out of their money, and they've already stated their claim which has been sent to Luke. They don't need to post a lot of times to get their point across. I think JB is going to make it very clear to Luke now that he has his future on the line. JB won't take any excuses as an answer. I know of it.

    -Casey
     
  9. Oh listen I understood where you coming from, my point was the way you worded your post was really no better then anyone else's.

    I am glad that there seems to be something being done about this, my worry is, if it wasn't for JB and Theory11 do any of us really think Luke would have resolved this on his own? Even if he does resolve this (because it's been so public), should we forget about past transgressions? I just hope we all keep this in mind next time Luke puts out another product.

     
  10. Casey I am about as chilled on this thread as a block of ice. I haven't once spoken out of line and remain for the most part unbias neutral. I deal only with the facts this you know.
     
  11. I'd love to say this topic is now going anywhere... But I won't lie to make you guys feel better about it.
     
  12. #92 praetoritevong, Aug 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2010
    Thanks for posting that ThisTwoGoesTo22. This is precisely the thing I was referring to - Luke selling "limited edition" manuscripts for several hundred dollars, before releasing the rights to sell them for $20 or $30. He's been called out on it in numerous places, and I think that it's just generally ethically unacceptable to do so. His chosen course of action appears to say a lot about his character.

    I think there have two important complaints on different levels raised here:

    1) Firstly, there are the complaints of individuals who have apparently been scammed by Luke. Although Luke should be given a reprieve, in my opinion, for addressing this, I think that what appears to be systematic failings on his part still raise questions. This does not appear to be a mistake made in the heat of the moment - given the extensive reports of complaints. It's not a one-off thing, it's not one person Luke forgot about, it's a lot of people, and that's the issue. Which brings me to...

    2) Secondly, the bigger issue in my opinion, which has not been addressed, is what appears to be an overall sense of bad business ethics and, frankly, illegal activity. The sheer number of reports that arise from questions like this (there are many more pages of such complaints elsewhere) seems to suggest that Luke has engaged in comprehensive dubious selling practices, and there's not an insignificant proportion of people being wronged here. Contrary to what some people have been saying, there's been a large amount of people who have actually claimed that Luke has wronged them. This is not gossip. This is not complaining. And most importantly, this is not unsubstantiated crap. And it's not the occasional person who comes here and bashes T11 - and that can be evidenced through a short search of other forums. It is no longer a matter for benefit of the doubt - it may be for those who have not been alerted to this practice before - but for those who have, it is beyond that. Luke's re-release of limited edition manuscripts at low prices comes under this category, as well as what appears to be a pattern of unsatisfied customers, and disregard and neglect.

    Finally, this brings us to one more important point: What T11 should do about it. J.B certainly should be commended for re-opening this thread, and I think it was important that it was done so (although I don't blame the moderators for originally closing this down) to facilitate active and accurate communication between buyers and sellers. Whilst T11 is, at the end of the day, a company, and I don't always agree with their products, policies, or their responses to criticism, it was an important step for J.B to contact Luke for a response, and I certainly think that deserves kudos.

    So now the question becomes, if it is apparent that Luke has indeed engaged in widespread unethical behaviour regarding his selling (and it is my personal opinion, from the information I have seen, that this is the case), then what should be done about it? I think it is clear that such individuals, no matter how talented, should not be tolerated. Lybrary.com has been criticised in other forums for being the other party to the act. I have not made up my mind about whether they should be involved - but there are certainly good arguments for doing so. Magic merchants should uphold a certain level of standards in whose material they promote and support. If one would not support magic that is ripped off, and thus unethical, should one support magic from a creator whose material is wonderful, but who acts unethically? For now though I think, T11 has done about all it can, and someone really needs to knock JB out so he can get some sleep. Maybe if Andrei is around...
     
  13. Aren't there several different editions? He was selling limited edition versions at a certain price. Are the limited edition versions any different than the other versions? If they are different then I can see selling unlimited versions and limited edition versions if they provide more value. It's similar to limited edition cans of Coca Cola. They are still going to sell Coca Cola after the limited edition cans sell out. Just like Luke Jermay is going to keep selling his effects after the limited edition sells out. That's just my take on it.
     
  14. JEN, that's a good point, but I don't think it applies here.

    For example. Take The Amazing Memory Test that was mentioned earlier on - $200 per manuscript.

    Now compare with: http://www.lybrary.com/amazing-memory-test-p-69781.html?osCsid=4e5941cae5cf24a5fbb172f4b2867d62

    $25 on Lybrary.com

    Now if they were different things, I would perhaps agree with you. But if you look carefully at the bottom of the page, it is very clearly marked "First edition" - the edition that was originally released as a "limited edition" of 15 copies.

    So to return to your coke can analogy, it would be like selling the limited edition cans for $1 after they sold out - if they had cost $50 each to begin with.
     
  15. #95 JetEyeNight, Aug 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2010
    Prae, thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I agree that's not quite fair. If it's the exact same thing, it looses quite a bit of exclusivity being sold for $25, when others paid $200.

    What is the Amazing Memory Test? I read the preview at Lybrary.com but I still don't understand what it is.
     
  16. Hey, Luke Jermay. If you're reading this, based on everything posted on this thread before me...
    *facepalm*
     
  17. They are the exact same. I repurchased some to compare.
     
  18. I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this or not (mostly because I don't want to read the 5 pages I missed to see) but in this months Magic Magazine there is a article on Luke Jermay.

    Below insert is taken directly from Magic Magazine August 2010 pg. 53 center column :

    During those first years of living in the US, 23-year-old Jermay's fourth book, 3210, was published. "I also wrote several books that were released in limited editions," he explains. "In that process, I discovered that I am clearly not a businessman and have no grasp of customer service. I switched my writing/delivery system to try to resolve this but, sadly, I let many customers down with slow delivery and delays on projects."
     
  19. Hello all. Rob Domenech here. I just want to off my deepest apologies for the missing $1.99 lecture notes from Luke Jermay. Please allow me to explain the situation.

    Luke had asked if he could use my PayPal account as a way to get payments for these lecture notes because his account was shut down. I decided to help him out and gave him the okay. I had no idea that Luke would not send out these lecture notes and, frankly, I'm skeptical if they even exist! With Luke's shady past, I should have known better, but the $1.99 price tag had me fooled. Unfortunately, after the money was transferred to my PayPal account, Luke had asked for the funds to be sent to him via Western Union, which I did, only to later find out that no one received anything.

    So, here we are now. What I propose to do to rectify this situation is the following. Those of you that would like their money returned, please let me know and I'll gladly pay you back. However, please understand that this money is coming right out of my own pocket. The second option is that I can send you a copy of my "Tips & Tricks" e-book (a $20 value) and we'll call it even. This e-book contains some really good material on performing and even contains the pendulum routine that I co-wrote with Luke and it's the routine that Luke currently uses in his live stage show.

    To say that I'm upset about all of this is an understatement. I'm enraged. Contact me at robdomenech@gmail.com (I probably won't be checking this forum, so please send me an email) and send me a copy of your PayPal receipt and let me know if you want a refund or my e-book.

    -rob
     
  20. Just got the notes Rob. Thanks for doing this.
     
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